Speaker 1: 00:06

Welcome to another episode of the everyday environment podcast where we explore the environment we see every day. I'm your host, Amy Lefrenhaus.

Speaker 2: 00:15

And I'm your co host, Abigail Garfalo.

Speaker 1: 00:18

And as you know, here on the everyday environment podcast, we are talking all things climate this season. We're covering the basics to the mitigation and adaptation to our changing climate. And one way that we address this is through our energy use. And today, we are talking with Dennis Bowman. He is our extension specialist in digital ag, and he's gonna talk to us about a very creative innovative solution, and that is agrivoltaics.

Speaker 1: 00:54

Welcome, Dennis.

Speaker 3: 00:56

Happy to be here.

Speaker 1: 00:57

Well, let's start off just with the basics like we do on every single podcast. What is agrivoltaics, and why is there interest in this sort of renewable energy?

Speaker 3: 01:12

Well, there's a lot of interest society wide in renewable energy, and, wind and solar are probably 2 of the biggest types that we're we're seeing implemented especially across our landscape here in Illinois. And with solar farms, we're seeing these, solar developers come in and develop 100 of acres, thousands of acres of prime farmland that's being turned into solar farms. And in most cases, the the land underneath these solar farms is going out of production of agriculture. And I am an agronomist by training, and so growing crops is something I've spent most of my career helping farmers do a better job of and seeing the best farm ground in the world being turned into solar farms is somewhat hurts my soul.

Speaker 2: 02:01

Well and and to clarify, these fields being converted to solar, they're not being, like, taken from the farmers. It's kind of like a cost benefit analysis that they're making a little bit, or, explain a little bit more about, you know, why we're seeing a little bit of the shift.

Speaker 3: 02:16

So, solar developers are coming in to to put in these solar farms, and they have been recruiting farmers, and paying real very nice, rental rates for a 20 year lease on a farmer's field. Well, that's, you know, 20 years that this field is gonna be out of production and not producing food or feed, and that's a little bit of a challenge, because the the developers hold all the cards and they they play play everything very close to their vest. So the farmers are going into these negotiations, not having all all the information, and so that that's somewhat of a challenge. And, you know, while it is very profitable, there are still, other concerns as well that relate to the environment that goes along with these big solar farms.

Speaker 2: 03:02

True. Well, I'm excited to dive into that. And I wanna know, you know, why combine other than, you know, it hurts our soul a little bit, our little farmer soul, because my family's farm, comes from a farm family as well. Even though I'm up here in Cook County, I got my feet downstate. But why why might someone wanna combine agriculture and solar or photovoltaics?

Speaker 2: 03:26

So one of the

Speaker 3: 03:27

things that we're trying to discover and trying to figure out is, can we do this and make more money than just solar or just farming? So is there a way that we can get 1 and 1 equaling 1 and a 2a half? So if we're taking that 1 acre of ground that's producing so much electricity, and then comparing that to what 1 acre of ground produces in crops, can we combine those in the same field and make more money in total? So that when we're taking a half and a half, it's now better than 1. And so that's that's a better land use efficiency.

Speaker 3: 04:07

So are there situations where we can do that? And that's what this Capes grant that I'm involved in is trying to determine what are the what are the rules and what are the the guidelines that we're trying to figure out so that we could build a profitable agrivoltaic system that combined an agricultural operation and solar energy production in the same field.

Speaker 1: 04:30

I think it's it's kinda neat for us to shift make that shift or make that pivot fairly quickly. You know, in this podcast, we are focused on climate change and the things and the actions that we can take on our land and and in our homes, that we can do to mitigate climate change. And this is one of those combination, solutions. Right? We are still we're trying to still produce agriculturally, but we're also I mean, economically, we're making those decisions too.

Speaker 1: 05:03

But also in the win win win situation, we're, you know, transitioning over to producing renewable energy. So, we are making that decision, you know, based on all of those factors, but also making a good climate decision as well.

Speaker 2: 05:18

I was gonna add too. We're not land space is a is a big thing, and we don't think about it a ton in the United States because we have a lot of land to work with compared to other countries. But thinking about, you know, if we're gonna use this space for agriculture, can we use it as well for something else? If we're gonna use this space for solar, you know, a lot of what one of the original solar fields on the U of I campus is just turf. It's just grass.

Speaker 2: 05:43

It's an ecological dead zone, and it's not producing anything for humans. It's not producing anything for nature, really. And so having this dual purpose landscape, you know, we don't have to have 2 separate landscapes devoted to these 2 human things. We can have 1, and that's really, really neat to think about this these really creative solutions. And just to kind of clarify, Dennis, you said SCAPS.

Speaker 2: 06:07

If you wanna clarify what that stands for so that way the audience isn't hanging on to their hands, waiting.

Speaker 3: 06:13

The reason that I'm here is because I'm part of the Extension and Outreach part portion of the SCAPS grant, which is sustainably collocating agricultural and photovoltaic energy systems. And so this is a big grant that came from USDA to look at this issue and try to help come up with solutions that would make help farmers make better decisions about converting their land into into solar production. And and with some of our your discussion there just a second ago, the simplest form of agrivoltaics is just to use the site as a pollinator pollinator planting, and that's, you know, that's the easiest and the the lowest run on the ladder for agrivoltaics. And so that's providing an ecosystem service, and it's better than letting weeds and and grass, just plain grass grow under the the panels.

Speaker 1: 07:06

So, agriculturally, then what I guess, in the big picture, what crops or agricultural practices have shown the most most promise when we're combining solar installations and agriculture.

Speaker 3: 07:19

The next step up the ladder from the pollinator plantings is probably grazing. By doing a a managed forage system underneath the, the solar panels and then just grazing that with sheep have shown the most promise. Goats can be a little aggressive. Cattle need the panels raised a little higher, which is a little more expensive. So there's been a real successful work with, with sheep and grazing those.

Speaker 3: 07:45

There's a pilot program in Illinois, that's that's doing some sheep grazing under one of the big solar farms down in Coles County, and there's a lot of this happening in the in the northeast that there are sheep producers that are basically running their sheep flocks and trailering them around from solar farm to solar farm to take advantage of some good grazing and shade throughout the summer and to keep, the vegetation managed underneath the solar panels. Because one of the things we've discovered and that I discovered in some of our meetings with the solar developers is how much they really hate the annual maintenance cost for these solar farms because they're required to keep the weeds managed. You don't want this to turn into a, a haven for noxious weeds. So they've gotta manage this, and there's an annual fee, and it's fairly substantial to keep the vegetation control because it's it's a challenge to mow around all the posts and all the equipment and stuff and has to be done fairly carefully.

Speaker 2: 08:44

Yeah. I'm thinking about how that annual maintenance, not just for you want something short as well for to not shade out your panels. So you can't grow things super tall under those panels depending on how high you prop them up. Right? And so you gotta maintain them anyways.

Speaker 2: 09:02

And so having some agriculture managing it for you, that'd be great.

Speaker 3: 09:06

So, yeah, letting a farmer come in and manage that so we're they're getting an income off of it. So that's, you know, that's a a benefit to to them. And a lot of times, we've got landlords that are putting these sites into solar farms and displacing a tenant farmer that has been renting this farm for crop production. Oh. So this keeps that, you know, a and a livelihood for the the tenant farmer to be able to to take over and do do some production like that in these solar farm sites.

Speaker 2: 09:36

It's not always the direct manager of the land that's making those choices.

Speaker 3: 09:41

Yes. Because a lot of our Illinois farmland is man is owned by absentee landlords. Right there. James project. So we're looking at the next run up the ladder, actually looking at plant and crop production.

Speaker 3: 09:53

So we're actually trying to grow soybeans and then sorghum and some other, alfalfa and forages underneath of as well. Corn, like you said, is a little tall. We have some short statured corn but even with that, we would need to get the panels up a little bit higher and that cost more steel and that raises the construction cost for the for the program. And so that's one of the challenges to do that. With the SCAPES program, we're using one of the one of those Illinois, University of Illinois solar farms as a as a test site to do some of our experiments.

Speaker 3: 10:32

We're trying to build our own research solar array that is elevated and spaced out a little bit more so we can do some research on it, but that has been a challenge because of supply chain issues and inflation to get that built, in the, as part of our grant.

Speaker 2: 10:51

Well, are there any environmental concerns or drawbacks associated with the Agrivoltaics system?

Speaker 3: 10:57

So you when you take, a site and may turn it into, just a solar farm and you you take that biologically, it becomes somewhat of a biological desert. And so by bringing in the the agrivoltaics, you can increase the biodiversity of that. You still have some issues with shade and and changes potentially in the way rainfall gets captured on the site, drainage issues. But in most part, a lot of the things we hear about solar farms is is probably not more of an urban myth on some of the the problems. The materials that go into building a solar farm are are pretty, the panels are pretty inert.

Speaker 3: 11:39

They have some exotic compounds in them, but they're pretty much encapsulated in in glass or, in forms that are very environmentally stable. So they don't tend to to to break down. They're in compounds that are tighter than mother nature would generally be able to pull apart. As we look at some of these big solar farms, you know, they do have somewhat of an effect on their environment a little bit, the way the the sunlight's being absorbed, but it's often not a major impact on the on the area. One of the things we found is that, solar panels actually do better when they have, actively grow growing plants underneath of them because of the transpiration the evapotranspiration and the cooling effect under the panel helps increase the electrical efficiency of the panel itself.

Speaker 3: 12:27

Wow. By keeping keeping them a little cooler, it actually improves the output of the panels.

Speaker 2: 12:33

That's really cool. I love that little ecology going on in the interactions. That's awesome.

Speaker 3: 12:38

The Scapes project is is a multi state project, and so we're doing it here in Illinois, but we also have partners in at Colorado State and at University of Arizona. And so we've got 3 different climates that are working with this and then we're all focusing on some different types of plants. So the Arizona group, very sun heavy and sun intensive environment with low moisture. A lot of the farmers there are getting irrigation restrictions on them so they're looking at at ways that they can conserve water by having shade. So that makes whatever irrigation they have go last longer and high value crops like tomatoes and some of the leafy green crops tend to are showing an affinity for having at least partial shade during the day and then production's much better in those.

Speaker 3: 13:31

The Colorado site's looking at high value crops and at grasslands for, cattle grazing or sheep grazing. And then at Illinois, we're we're trying to look at at row crop field crops that were more common here in Illinois.

Speaker 2: 13:44

That's really cool looking at 3 different climates and, agricultural needs as well. The oh, one time sometimes you hear, like, oh, it worked over in this state. Why can't it work at this state? Well, there's a whole different as we as we stated earlier, United States is big. It's got a lot of different climates going on with it.

Speaker 2: 14:03

So comparing them and having similar, if not the same, ways of collecting that data and and unifying, is going to be so helpful for advancing, this this effort in the future to, really kinda see how we can make agrivoltaics work for our ever needing energy.

Speaker 3: 14:22

We have a team of of just the some of the top notch plant physiology people, across the country that are part of this project. And so at what we've learned amongst the different plants, are are things that help us understand things maybe we're not even growing, but they would act similar, so that they have a we know that they have a similar biology to one another. Peppers and tomatoes, very similar. Other crops that are are closely related that we would expect to act similar to some of our test crops. So we're hoping to be able to evaluate even a wider range of things than we're actually having in our experiments and be able to make recommendations.

Speaker 1: 15:01

Tell me again this is just me going backwards. What what are the typical solar contracts that producers are being approached with? Is it did you say 10 years? 20. 20.

Speaker 1: 15:12

Okay.

Speaker 3: 15:13

Often 20. That's generally considered to be the the life cycle of of the solar panel.

Speaker 1: 15:18

The panel? Okay. Dennis, you talked about scapes. You know, we've mentioned scapes here and there and what, you're that you're involved with that grant project. Tell us a little bit about just or just give us an overview of of the project as a whole and, you know, what are its primary objectives.

Speaker 1: 15:36

You've talked a little bit about it, but, just dive a little bit deeper, I guess, into escapes.

Speaker 3: 15:42

You would think we might know more about solar than than we than we do, so we we have a team that's that's working on a model of predicting solar efficiency for different kinds of panels any place on the globe. So you could build you know, you can say we're gonna put this kind of panel at this latitude and longitude, how much energy can it produce? So it's made out of this material, it has a certain type type of tracking on whether it follows the sun or is fixed in place, and so how much energy. So if we're gonna try to make a decision on on profit, we need to have that total amount of electricity potential that we could get paid for. So we need be able to do that.

Speaker 3: 16:26

Then we need to be able to understand what's the response from the plants when they're being grown in in partial shade. Because if you look at the ground underneath a solar farm, you're gonna have a shadow that moves throughout the day and you'll have areas that are getting morning sun and and midday sun and then latey late afternoon shade and just the opposite as well, as well as areas that pretty much get solid shade, a narrow area under the panels that get shade 100% of the time and then if its panels are spaced wide enough, you'll get an area in the middle that gets full sun. And so, understanding how the plants react to those multitude of environments is is really important. So that's why we've got this team of plant physiologists are working on that. We've got a team of economists that are tying some of these things together.

Speaker 3: 17:16

So we can build a decision support tool that would help farmers understand, if I wanna do this profitably, I could pace, you know, how wide would I have to place the panels to be able to farm, how much base do I need, and how much is that gonna cost me in electricity return? Or if I squeeze the panels together and I get more shade, how much yield is that gonna cost from different plants? And if it's gonna cost you know, if it's not gonna do well with this crop, is there a plant that would do better in this environment? So that's what we're trying to to build a dismiss decision support network, that looks at all these different phases that helps the developers understand and the farmers understand as well.

Speaker 2: 17:59

Yeah. And, I mean, like you said, these are their livelihoods. This is this is a a decision that's, like, determining how much money they're gonna make or how much they can, how they can responsibly use the land as well and take care of of of that, that stewardship of that land that, they're working on. And so how are the farmers in the local communities being involved in the project?

Speaker 3: 18:23

With our Ag Econ group, they are doing a lot of focus groups with industry and with farmers to try to get information from them about their perceptions of solar solar and agrivoltaics and what they what they would like to see happen. And so they're being included in this process. We've been actively, recruiting people to be part of our stakeholder group and to participate in some of our focus groups to help, help inform our decisions. With one of our groups of farmers, we worked with Illinois Farm Bureau to put together a group of farmers that sat down with our our our team and and discussed spent an evening discussing agrivoltaics. One of the quotes out of there is, was that we're farmers.

Speaker 3: 19:12

We wanna produce something. And just handing over their land to somebody else, and get even though it's a big check, that it's it's taking some part of their identity away from. So, you know, we're and we're getting a lot of, of the input from the solar developers as well. They have concerns about security of their sites, as well. So there's a a there are trade offs there.

Speaker 3: 19:35

Solar developers are more interested in agrivoltaics if there's the option that it's gonna give them access to more acres, because we have areas where they're putting communities are putting in ordinances that, would require a certain amount of agrivoltaics on solar development, and that's another the whole whole public policy angle is another thing. Under the current economic situations, what I can tell you is that the price being paid for the electricity is really high, and it really dominates the the side. So that ag has a hard time competing with that in a on a level playing field, but if incentives go away or if the access to land goes away, that there's restrictions, then, agrivoltaics, play can come in and play a better bigger role, and, we need to know how to do that and make it profitable.

Speaker 2: 20:33

So messy, but also like

Speaker 3: 20:35

It's complicated. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:37

Complicated and messy, but I I like why it's messy because it's not just about the dollar value, It's about the people and the connection to the land and what, people want out of their own landscape and and their livelihoods and how they wanna earn their money. And I think that's really fascinating and interesting and part of the human experience that is, oftentimes an excluded one when we're talking about making big money choices. So I think it's it's so important that we're having this conversation and that that conversation is happening on this national level, in a really, really cool way. So I love that you all are having those those actual conversations with farmers because, I mean, that's what extension's all about, right, being in the community. And so it's it's so good to see that that's, like, built into a big project like this.

Speaker 1: 21:25

It really makes you think about those connections to the land and how strong they really are, and I don't know. It's it's neat to hear hear that from you, Dennis, that that, the farmers are thinking about their identity and their legacy, right, that they're passing on to the next, generation and what they what they wanna pass on. Well, I'm sure when you get into those rooms with, farmers and producers that they have a lot of, things to say, have how it's maybe not gonna work. So in these conversations, what are some of the technical challenges maybe in the research that you guys are doing that where you are implementing these agrivoltaics systems. What are the challenges that you're seeing in the research and the and, you know, in response to some of the feedback you're getting from the farmers?

Speaker 3: 22:14

You know, Illinois, the predominant crops are are corn and soybeans, wheat, and wheat, to a lesser degree, but corn is is quite a challenge and under the solar panels, and the cost of a field that would be suitable for corn production might be somewhat prohibitive because of the additional height that the panels would have to be raised. So that's that that's a little bit of a challenge. Also being the fact that we need the panels generally, if they're not gonna be high enough, then they need to be able to rotate so that they're completely vertical so that it can give the maximum amount of space to get equipment through there. The other thing is farmers like their large farm equipment and don't are aren't really excited about getting smaller farm equipment to get through a an agrivoltaics field.

Speaker 2: 23:05

And invested a lot in their farm equipment too.

Speaker 3: 23:07

We've invested a lot. And one of the things we're looking at with our experiment this this year from what we've kinda learned is we're looking we've added more forages into our our experiments, so that we're looking at hay production. The hay equipment's generally not as large as the the tillage and planting equipment that a lot of the big farmers have, So it would be a fit in these alleyways between the solar panels much much easier. The other thing is being involved in digital agriculture and work with, autonomous vehicles and robots. There's some really cool farm equipment that's being developed, that's autonomous, can run 24 hours a day, that is a smaller form factor.

Speaker 3: 23:54

So they be it might be better suited, in these solar fields because it it would would doesn't need to be as big because it can run all by itself for long periods of time.

Speaker 1: 24:06

Yeah. I was just gonna ask the question. Are some of these small that smaller equipment that you were talking about on the market right now?

Speaker 3: 24:12

There's some amazing stuff in in Europe right now than some of the mid manufacturers our manufacturers over there, that have built some of these, multipurpose, autonomous machines that you can fit a variety of implements on this robot, that can do tillage, planting, harvesting all on the same basic same frame.

Speaker 2: 24:32

Makes me think of, there's a Magic School Bus episode, the new one, in which they talk about, like, they call it ghost farm, and the kids, like, approach it. Farm. There's, like, ghosts driving the tractors, and there's, like, these crazy things, and, and it's it's a digger digital agriculture farm. So they have all these, new technology to, it's a it's a test site that they end up visiting. Very, very cool.

Speaker 2: 24:57

I encourage everyone to check it out. It's great outreach for the youth, to to figure out, and I found it very fascinating too from my point of view as well. Well, we talked about, the people part and the technical part, and so let's talk a little bit about the economics. Let's take a minute. So how does the economic viability of agrivoltaics compare to traditional farming and then just, like, stand alone projects?

Speaker 2: 25:21

You were saying, you know, it's it, can we combine them to kinda meet in the middle somewhere? How does that work?

Speaker 3: 25:26

So like I have, with the current, market environment, and, large, corporations that need carbon credits and need energy or energy credits. So they're investing a lot of money in funding solar farms that can make them greener. And so that competition

Speaker 2: 25:48

Greener in, like, the environmental sense. If my first thought was greener in, like, the y'all, this is an audio podcast, but I just meant, like, somebody's symbol with my fingers.

Speaker 3: 25:59

So they have environmental goals to meet, and so they're often investing and and putting money in behind these solar farms and to to promote their development. And so that and the and the price of the subsidies for the electricity off of these farms are, substantial and they're slowing probably slowing the cost a little bit or the economics in favor of a 100% solar, but even with a 100% solar farms, that doesn't mean we couldn't do the the grazing or the pollinator plantings. So those are are still some options even under those situations, but if things change in the future or we have regulations or incentive other incentives that come in through public policy. We wanna be able to to meet those needs with good information about how we can how we can blend more ag into that system and do it profitably.

Speaker 1: 27:00

I was I was think I could guess maybe you probably answered this, but I was thinking about retrofitting. You know, if you already have a solar installation in there, I guess it just it would depend on maybe your structure of your contract or what you can and can't do on that or maybe even provide a negotiating stance since the solar company has to maintain that, you know, the underneath of the of the solar panels. Maybe you have now a a new negotiating point where you could introduce some of that stuff if you've already put in a solar installation. Would that be right?

Speaker 3: 27:38

No. It depends on who the owner of the the site is. If it's if it's a large utility company, if it's utility scale, you're probably not gonna get very far. If it's community scale, and there's a local board that's managing the site, then they might be more in put more favorably on local people getting in there and and making the site more environmentally friendly for the neighborhood and the community. And then if we're actually down to the size of a business or residential scale, if they've got a small set of solar panels that they've got there on the farm, think of the shade as an asset and what can you use that shade for rather than just grass and think of ways that maybe there are certain you should put part of your garden under that solar panel because there's some things that are gonna do good there.

Speaker 1: 28:31

Mhmm. Interesting. Just allowing us to think of it a little bit differently. Yes. Well, the little people, we're talking about Magic School Bus.

Speaker 1: 28:40

Dennis, Throughscapes, tell us about the efforts to educate youth about agrivoltaics.

Speaker 3: 28:47

One of the old extension models is if you wanna teach the adults, you you start with their kids.

Speaker 2: 28:52

Your original extension model, Dennis.

Speaker 3: 28:55

I know. I wasn't there then, Abbotneil. But

Speaker 2: 28:59

I do a history of extension. I find it fascinating. And, yeah, 4 h clubs, corn clubs is what they call them.

Speaker 3: 29:05

Clubs in the Coopon County, my home county.

Speaker 2: 29:08

Really? Thevis, you weren't there just a couple years later.

Speaker 3: 29:14

Yes. The Georgia Atwell Corn Clubs. But so with the agrivoltaics project, we, as part of the the grant, have an education team that worked with a game company to build an agrivoltaics farming game. It's called My Agrivoltaics Farm. It's available for both Apple and Android.

Speaker 3: 29:34

So you can go to the app stores and download this, and you can start off with a little farm, and start growing your crops. And as you make money and and meet the goals of the game, you can add solar panels to your farm, and you can change your mix of crops. There are some guidelines in there that'll help you figure out which crops are gonna do better under the solar panels. And as you make more money, you can upgrade your farm, get better solar panels that track, and you can get more acres. You can buy a tractor, different things.

Speaker 3: 30:08

You can upgrade your farmstead so that you get rewarded as you're going through the game and you get to see your profits accumulate based on the crops and having the solar panels as well. So it's it's a fun fun game. It was built with junior eye students in mind, and we've tested it at some of the science centers or the children's museums, Indianapolis and Saint Louis and had really good response from there. And, eventually, we'll have some kiosks at those sites where kids can log in and and try out the game. But you can do it now.

Speaker 3: 30:51

It's available for download and and also if you're a teacher, they're in the process creating a teacher's manual to go with it so it could be used for classroom educational activities as well.

Speaker 1: 31:02

That's cool. It's almost like a it's almost like a mini decision support tool. Right, Dennis? It's like the the pilot.

Speaker 3: 31:10

And our our crop physiologists had input into the the how the crops respond to rainfall and sun and shade. So we've built weather models into the game as well so you can check the forecast to see if if irrigating today is gonna be a good idea or not.

Speaker 2: 31:30

I'm so excited. Middle school youth, it's designed for me. I'm so excited.

Speaker 3: 31:36

I have wasted it oh, not wasted. I've invested it quite

Speaker 1: 31:39

in playing it as well. So Research. Right?

Speaker 3: 31:43

We got a little contest within the team on who, who can make the most money in the game. So

Speaker 1: 31:50

So you can upgrade your solar panels too? Is that what you said?

Speaker 3: 31:54

Yes. Yeah. So you can start off with just standard, simple fixed panels and you can mount you can get the tracking mounts so that they they, produce more electricity per cycle.

Speaker 1: 32:06

So in your in your Scapes real life project, do you guys do studies on all the different models of solar panels that are on the market? Like, do

Speaker 3: 32:16

you have Yes. Yes. So we we can tell you if it's a tracking panel, how much we'd expect it to be able to produce electricity wise versus a fixed mount, a single track versus a double track system that pivots like a sunflower and just tracks the sun all day long versus just changing the tilt east to west.

Speaker 1: 32:38

Yeah. Cool.

Speaker 2: 32:40

Well, we have our last question before our little everyday observation, and, this is our climate change season. So when it comes to, you know, agrivoltaics, scapes, project, things like that, do you have any everyday tips for us when it comes to climate change?

Speaker 3: 32:56

Recent experience is I was just gone for a week, and while I was gone, my smart my smart thermostat on my house sampled, and knew I was away. And it changed the entire thermostat settings for our house while we were gone. And so I've been fine tuning it since then to try to get that. So renewable energy and energy efficiency, are things that that we can all work on.

Speaker 1: 33:24

Awesome. Okay. To finish today, Dennis, we do this thing on each of our podcast where we share our everyday observation, where we highlight something mundane or simple, normal, in our environment that we see, but is actually really interesting and really cool. So I'm gonna ask Abigail first to share her everyday observation that you have witnessed the last few weeks or so.

Speaker 2: 33:54

Yeah. So I have a little bunny nest somewhere in the vicinity of my yard. I haven't found it yet. And, my children are obsessed with it. My mother came and named one of the bunnies hot dog, which is the most comical name I can think of for a bunny.

Speaker 2: 34:11

I don't know why. And so hot dog and his buddies, one of which is called Taco. I don't know why we chose food, but that's what we went for. And I was like, I used to hate bunnies. They still they kind of frustrate me when they eat my new plants, but what I've noticed is that my violets are not as much of a problem this year, and they're eating all the violet leaves around.

Speaker 2: 34:35

And I'm like, you know what? I'm good with you. So I am happy for that little bit of natural control going on in my yard, a little ecology happening in my landscape, play animals eating plants, and providing a little bit of entertainment. So I think that's pretty cool, and I'm I'm intrigued to see, right now they've really just been eating my weeds. So I'm like, what is growing differently, And what's growing better, and how can I keep that going?

Speaker 2: 35:04

So I'm curious to kind of keep a little bit more stock of of what they're eating and noticing that so that way I can kind of encourage that kind of grazing. So that's that's my everyday observation.

Speaker 1: 35:17

Awesome. I too have baby bunnies in my under my cucumber vines. They seem to like the shade underneath there, I guess. They're not doing any damage, but yeah. Dennis, do you have a an everyday observation?

Speaker 3: 35:32

Just a couple weekends ago, we had a my fam I had my family all got together, my my 2 kids and and my 2 granddaughters, we rented a cabin near Starved Rock, and did a lot of hiking and, some of the canyons there at Starved Rock. And just, watching those 18 month old and 3 year old granddaughters experience the the nature there, was, was really fun and just, made me happy.

Speaker 2: 36:02

Yeah. That's how old my kids are, and it's a magical time. Bugs are amazing to them. For sure.

Speaker 1: 36:07

Alright, Amy. I'll share my absurd everyday observation. I mine's not really everyday because I actually got to go on a trip. I told you, Abigail, that I was going on this trip, but I recently returned from, Wisconsin, and I got to go to Aldo Leopold's shack in, outside Baraboo, Wisconsin and sit inside the shack and sit in the place where, you know, Leopold made all of his observations in on his property in the Sand County area in Wisconsin. Not Sand County itself.

Speaker 1: 36:45

It's Salt County, but in the Sand County region of Wisconsin. Got to see, you know, pines that him and his family had planted, you know, in the thirties and forties. And, now it's time to read a Sand County almanac almanac again, because now I have seen and witnessed the things that he had witnessed. And so those stories and those essays are gonna, you know, take on a whole whole new perspective. So that was kind of one of my bucket list items.

Speaker 1: 37:15

So it wasn't really an everyday observation. It was a bucket list observation, but it was really neat and inspiring.

Speaker 2: 37:21

Ila, you, I read the May Watts' book and her she's from Illinois, and a lot of her observations are around. And then if you read her second edition, she, like, comes back and visits those sites, like, so many years later. And there was one on the, the dunes, And it was really interesting to hear so you can, like, go visit those sites. So, yeah, those kind of, like, visiting the naturalist observation book sites are just very, very cool and, just a way to kind of take in nature a little bit deeper.

Speaker 1: 37:53

Yeah. Connect. And then Yeah. Oh, for sure. Well, this has been fun.

Speaker 1: 37:58

Thank you again, Dennis, for sharing your knowledge on agrivoltaics. We really appreciate you being here. I can't wait to go download the app, play some, my agrivoltaics farm. Right? That's the app.

Speaker 1: 38:14

We'll have to put that in the show notes. I know my nephew will be super excited about that. So this has been another episode on the Everyday Environment podcast. Check us out next week where we talk to Sue Gasper and Jamini Galsot about food waste and composting and climate change.

Speaker 2: 38:38

This podcast is a University of Illinois Extension production, hosted and edited by Abigail Garfalo, Aaron Garrett, and Amy Lefringhaus.

Speaker 3: 38:50

University of Illinois Extension.