Episode 76 | Addressing Nutrient Loss Through Conservation: Precision Conservation Management (PCM)

This is the Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction podcast episode 76. I'm University of Illinois Extension's Todd Gleason addressing nutrient loss through conservation, precision conservation management, or the PCM program. Today we'll explore how and why producers might consider enrolling in PCM. We're joined by three individuals who have intimate knowledge of the program. We'll begin with Greg Goodwin who oversees the Precision Conservation Management Program at the Illinois Corn Growers Association.

Greg, thank you for being with us. Tell me a bit about yourself, who you are, and what you do.

Yeah. Thanks, Todd. So Greg Goodwin, the director of the Precision Conservation Management Program, officially a staff member with the Illinois Corn Growers Association. And, I help oversee the PCM program and our operations, mostly from an administrative perspective and then help build partnerships with private industry to help facilitate funding for conservation as well as federal funding, NGO group funding as well.

And Lou Liva, you also are part of PCM or Precision Conservation Management as a specialist. Can you tell me about your job and yourself?

I am Lou Liva, one of the many precision conservation specialists throughout the state. I occupy the Northwest Territory. So I serve Rock Island, Mercer, Knox, and Henry County, as well as a couple of farmers in the surrounding area. Specialists are the primary point of contact with PCM farmers. We provide one on one technical assistance for farmers, helping them leverage their data to become more profitable.

And Noah Forlines I know you are a farmer. Can you tell me where from and about your operation?

Yes. Noah, Forlines farm largely in Stark County with a little bit in Knox and Henry and Lou's area. A farm with my dad. He is technically retired, but 1,500 acres in the area and been farming with him for the past ten years since coming back from working as an engineer at John Deere.

Tell me a little bit about the conservation practices you've already adopted on your operation.

So my dad has been interested in conservation for some time and he switched to no till maybe thirty years ago. So I have inherited a lot of that no till legacy in both corn and soybeans. We have tried and dabbled in some strip till in the fall with P and K in the band. And now more recently, we'll do a little bit of kinda quasi strip till with, just planting into anhydrous, tracks that the co op will put in for us.

Now before Lou and Greg have a chance to tell us why folks should join PCM, I wonder why it is that you did.

Well, I saw some advertisements for it, and it it kinda strikes a chord with me because I am, with an engineering background, I'm maybe interested in data and analysis a fair amount. And so PCM blends a lot of the data and analysis of you know, the U of I, some of the ag economists bring that power with conservation to highlight some of the pluses and minuses of the profitability that conservation can bring.

Okay, Greg, goodwin Can you talk about that data collection as it's related to PCM? We'll get to some of the places that you'll cover, but I really want to know how the organization works to move data to and from farmers, and then, of course, how Gary Schnenke and others at the University of Illinois, might be using that within, some of the data collection and research projects.

Yeah, happy to happy to start on that and and now talk about the relationship with U of I. And then since we've got Lou on the call, may have Lou, go in a little deeper on the, specifics of the data collection piece with farmers like Noah. But overall, the organization works through the conservation specialist role, Lou, who's on the podcast, and works one on one with farmers to intake their data on a field by field basis, on a pass by pass basis, capturing, you know, pretty detailed information around every pass that farmer makes across the field in a given year, including transportation and drying information about their, grain and and corn drying information at the end, and basically tries to compile all of that and provide that back to farmers in an annual report we call the resource analysis and assessment plan. And that's effectively helping to benchmark farmers against themselves in time and others at a regional basis and at the state level, and really doing that from an economic standpoint and a sustainability standpoint. So we run all that pass by pass data through an economic model that was developed in conjunction with the University of Illinois, FarmDoc team and and using farm business, farm management, average accounting data.

And so we, you know, pair all that pass by pass information with the average cost of each one of those passes, and that's how we essentially compile the economic benchmarking. And then we also pass that, pass by pass data through a couple different environmental models, one being the field to market field prep platform, as well as the Cool Farm Alliance Cool Farm tool. And both both of them output a set of different sustainability metrics related to water quality, sediment loss, GHG emissions or greenhouse gas emissions associated with various farming practices, and and help us with that environmental benchmarking again at the field level. And so we compile again, compile that and produce that report to a farmer each and every year that lou can tell you more, but he goes and delivers that to farmers like Noah. But then we work with the University of Illinois to, kinda analyze all that in an aggregated and anonymized way for all the farmers in a given state and then produce a series of, annual data publications, you know, kind of normalizing by, high productivity soils.

And now we also normalize by low productivity soils to kind of show which practices rise to the, you know, are the cream of the crop in terms of profitability from a tillage cover crop and nitrogen timing and overall application perspective. And then we break all that down as well in a series of webinars over the course of the year, with experts like Doctor. Gary Schnitke, and often some of his graduate students at the University of Illinois. And, doctor Laura Gentry on our team is basically the one that leads that data analysis and, very instrumental in also communicating out that data as well.

Lou, you are the muddy boots person along with your colleagues across the nation in different areas, particularly in Illinois. The pipeline through which this data flows, can you tell me about working with producers in both directions? First, about the commitment maybe, the sign up process, those sorts of things, and the record keeping requirements, and then we can turn it around and see what they get back as well.

A farmer's commitment to PCM is to meet with a specialist like myself three times a year. So the first meeting is the enrollment meeting where the specialist interviews and records data about the farmer's operation. This takes about one to two hours. The second meeting is a quick check-in after harvest to collect yield data, drying data, transportation. This is often a phone call or a short visit.

The third meeting is where we give our deliverable, as Greg was mentioning, the resource analysis and assessment plan. This is where we provide insights on profitability and sustainability benchmarking and compare the farmer against themselves through time, as well as against the entire PCM data aggregate. So the overall time commitment comes into just about under five hours for each grower, and PCM works with the farmer to get all of their data into a usable format. The data is self reported, and if a farmer has a hard time keeping track of all of this data in one place, I think we provide a lot of value as this report can provide a way to compile all of their information into one legible and central location. Last thing I'll say about joining PCM is that we are free to join and we require no practice changes on behalf of the farmer.

Noah, some of this information comes back to you. How have you been able to deploy it over time?

So the information that Lou has provided, well, for one thing, he's kind of holding me accountable to doing what I say, saying what I do as far as especially around nitrogen. I have a tendency to discount any nitrogen that comes along in MAP or DAP in the fall phosphorus spreading. And so he's holding me accountable to that nitrogen because it's real and it can contribute to nutrient loss if over applied. So there's a nitrogen aspect that he's holding me accountable to. And then just seeing that there's, some profitability metrics that he's comparing to by tillage, by region and several different ways he breaks out, your yields, revenues, profitability that otherwise I do not have access to.

And I I do find, value in that local aggregated data.

So he's holding you accountable to the n rate calculator or the MRTN. You can search N rate calculator, by the way, if you're looking for it online. It'll pop up. Good across, the Corn Belt. I bet you didn't believe him to begin with.

What made you a believer? Was it the data?

The data is overwhelming. And I've seen Emerson Nassinger's data, over time. And it's it's hard to refute that, you know, dataset. It is large. And, so I I say I like data.

I gotta follow the data and, try to keep my nitrogen rates in check when it's just so easy to just, let's just add another 30 pounds and and swing for the fences.

Greg, Noah probably can tell us some of this, but I wanna hear from the larger, perspective that you look at administering these kinds of programs, related to both owned and non owned properties or rented properties and how producers can manage those and enroll them in the program if that's possible?

Yeah. Absolutely, Todd. And and, yeah, basically anyone that has control of the land and, has the data that it takes to provide PCM can enroll and participate in the program. You know, we primarily target the operators of farms and oftentimes they are farming a lot of rented land, but they are, you know, doing it under a contract where they have control of it. Maybe that's a cash rent situation or maybe that's a crop share situation.

But I would say a high percentage of the, you know, farmland in the PCM dataset is rented, so they can absolutely participate. And I think we do find that, you know, landowners are contacting us and farm management groups are contacting us based on what they see coming out of the dataset each year. In fact, we've got one, farm manager that they have farms in Wisconsin, Missouri, and Illinois that contacts us every year and wants additional copies of the business case to be able to send out to their, tenants so they can absorb that information as they make management decisions. But primarily, it is farmers that farm themselves and operate that are the ones in the program and contacting us and who we have signed up. But we think, you know, there's something there for everybody, I think.

And, we we welcome conversations with with all kinds of folks in in production ag.

How many acres are currently enrolled and in how many states?

So we just tabulated this. We had a team meeting this week earlier, and we currently have, 605 farmers, operating on about 660,000 acres across the four states that we're in. And the bulk and lion's share of that is in Illinois, given that that's where we've been the longest and have the biggest footprint. But that's also in Missouri, Nebraska and Kentucky. This is our first year operating a brand new region in Missouri as of this summer, and we just launched a second region in Kentucky this summer as well.

But, yeah, that gives you an idea of kind of the scope and size of PCM at the moment.

Lou, when you're compiling the data to send it back to Noah, do you give him comparables in the area or other farms that are more like his so he can see how he's doing against others? What kinds of are there other things that I I'm unaware of that he might be getting from you that you feel of it would be of interest to him?

You're pretty spot on there, Todd. We make comparisons based on distance from the center of a farmer's operation, as well as make these comparisons based on where they fall on the different practice standards that we assess. So we can compare the farmer against other farmers within our aggregated dataset who also no till within 30 miles of the farm or those who strip till or those who do one light pass of tillage. And we break out for the farmer as well as the aggregate based on these different classifications so they can understand how these input costs end up, impacting their profitability.

Noah, what have you seen in the data over the years that caused you to change or what what lines are you drawn to when when you get those reports? What in and I suppose they look something like a crop budget, but what what are you looking for when they come to you?

Well, I oftentimes want to explain or try to understand why you rank above or below and yield is is driving. If you have low yields and high inputs, your some of your nutrient loss metrics or greenhouse gas metrics and costs are going to look worse. And so it's a year by year thing relative to your neighbors. So when you're compared, there are weather differences, of course, across counties. And so when I'm compared in Stark County to someone in, say, Warren County, they could have 20 bushel higher or lower corn yield, which, kind of drives the boat there.

Because you look at this data all the time, Lou, what what draws your attention or what do you try to point out to folks from time to time?

Yeah. Often we're interested in looking at what farmers are spending on nitrogen, dry fertilizer. Those often are going to drive a lot of the costs of the farmer. The farmer is taking any additional passes through the field. We find that anything above a second tillage pass is only going to impact profitability in a negative way.

We also look at, herbicide costs, fungicide costs, and all the different pest management practices that the farmer takes through the field.

Now I'm wondering if there are things farmers should consider before they sign up for PCM. It is free, but what kinds of things did you consider and do you think farmers should and shouldn't really pay attention to?

I think there's really only upside. So as Lou mentioned earlier, you don't have to commit to any changes. The upside is another look at your own data, but I think you also should be willing to let the data speak to you and be open to making some small incremental changes as you go along. There's also benefits that Lou brings from, say, carbon type programs. There's a Pepsi program where we get paid.

PCM will collect the data and we really have no obligations outside of providing LUAR data and we get paid for those acres that qualify in the Pepsi program. He's also continually keeping us in the loop on other types of conservation programs through the federal money or through state money. And so it's all upside in my opinion. So very low risk.

Lou, you are a conduit through which many of the carbon related programs are funneled. Part of your job is to keep track of them, also to collect the data and make sure people are, getting the data into those particular programs and signed up for them. Can you tell me, from your perspective, if a farmer is interested in PCM, how can they find out about a specialist like you in their county if there is one, and maybe what other advice you might have for farmers interested in learning more about PCM?

Absolutely. So our website is a great place to start. That's www.precisionconservation.org. There's a big button right on the front page, an enroll button that you can hit, and we will reach out to you. Alternatively, if you go to our staff page, you can find all the different specialists and their regions and reach out to them directly.

Our numbers are posted, our emails are posted. So I encourage farmers, even if a specialist isn't in your region today, get your name on a list. We've been growing in a steady pace and having interest in your location may encourage our growth in your direction. Specialists are available to take your phone call and can answer any questions you have. And I just wanna be clear, if you're a farmer in Illinois, you've already paid for our service through the check off.

We're not trying to sell you anything. We are in your court. We are here to help.

Greg Goodwin, are there any new initiatives or recent updates coming to PCM that we should know about?

I would just say, you know, we're always applying for new types of grant funding and putting in proposals with companies to work on our programming. You know, we I kind of alluded to it earlier, but we just launched a new program with the Kentucky Distillers Association, down in sort of the corn sourcing region of Kentucky that supports the bourbon industry, essentially operating a program that is analogous to what we do with PepsiCo in Illinois. Really proud of that program so far. We've got a great specialist down there. And so we're constantly evaluating and looking at new opportunities just like that in in new areas.

Again, we'll have some stuff to share here soon, but nothing sort of earth earth shattering to get out today, but, stay tuned.

I do have one other question. For those who are not farmers, but that are ag professionals that might be interested in supporting PCM in some way, how can they get involved? I know you talked about farm managers. I suppose those are a prime target.

Yeah. I would say definitely reach out and let's have a conversation. We feel questions all the time from, different kinds of ag professionals, you know, across the industry in terms of the kind of role that they play for the industry. And we're always having to entertain a conversation and, you know, think through what the opportunities for partnership may look like. To your earlier comment, Todd, about farm data, we do take the farm data piece of of this and the privacy piece of it very seriously and and keep all that pretty close to the chest.

You know, individual farmer participants are the only ones that ever see their, own farm data, you know, aside from very select few who are needed from an accounting standpoint and things of that nature. But we are always looking for new partners and new opportunities. You know, I think we yeah. Just scrutinize every one of those chances with a new potential partner to find the value and find where there's, you know, common ground to work towards these common goals of, you know, promoting conservation on the ag landscape and getting the nutrient loss goals in check for the state of Illinois. So those things are always top of mind for us.

Yeah, we welcome a conversation with anyone out there who, you know, has even an inkling of similar goals to that.

And, Noel, we'll give you the final word. Are there things farmers should consider before they sign up for PCM?

I don't think there's anything. I don't think there's any downside. So it's just all upside. There's no gotchas that I have found yet. It's information that's going to help you take it or leave it.

There's financial incentives through the carbon program that they can help you with. It's all positive

for

the farmer in my opinion.

NOAA Fourlines is a Stark County, Illinois farmer enrolled in the Precision Conservation Management or PCM program. It is operated by the Illinois Corn Growers Association. Lou Leva joined us as well. He's a PCM specialist as did the director of Precision Conservation Management Program, Greg Goodman. On behalf of the University of Illinois Extension's Rachel Curry, Nicole Haverback, and Luke Zwilling, I'm Todd Gleason.