Amy Henschen: 00:19

This is Behind the Clover Real 4-H Talk with Real 4-H Pros. A look at 4-H from the perspectives of 4-H professionals from Illinois and beyond with your hosts, Henry Craft, Amy Henschen, and Ryan Littlejohn.

Ryan Littlejohn: 00:30

Today, we're continuing our youth leadership series by talking with Michelle Aavang, a youth development educator in Lake And McHenry Counties. We'll give her a formal intro in a bit, but first, we'd like to invite her to participate in our spitball round, which kicks off now. So what's going on in your lives, folks? Henry, you look like you have something you wanna share.

Henry Craft: 00:52

Maybe, let's see. Gosh, guys, you know, I feel really adulty today because I've been dealing so, like, I worked here for a little while at this point, but I came from a couple different jobs. And I didn't do rollovers fast enough for my retirement stuff. So I'm feeling really old trying to figure all that out and consolidate. And kids, if you haven't got all your money in the same place, you should do something about that really fast.

Henry Craft: 01:19

But for all of you True Blue Extensioners who started your job here as soon as you got out of high school, you should be fine. But you wanna make sure that money is working for you. Not a PSA, but, yeah, kind of a PSA. So anyway, no, that's just some personal stuff. But, yeah, no.

Henry Craft: 01:39

I'm back in the office. Had a great break doing some cooking. Got a homeschool Cooking 101 that's been going on, and, we got to do a kitchen crime scene this year. So all about kitchen safety. And, I got that from national conference.

Henry Craft: 01:59

So shout out to, all those awesome people in the Food Challenge area. So, yeah, that's kinda what I got going on. Lots of food stuff going on, and it's it's right back to it. Right back to it.

Amy Henschen: 02:14

Well, I'll just share what I've been up to. Guys, I'm almost to the end of my Lego Cloverbud Club, and I am, like, heartbroken because it has brought me so much joy. We just had our vehicle building session. That was the theme for the week, and we made, like, crazy cars and, like, had a little ramp and saw how far we could get them to go.

Amy Henschen: 02:36

And, like, these kids built crazy contraptions, like, one of them was, like, a hot tub limousine. Like, yeah. I this is amazing. I would like a hot tub limousine, please. And then, like, trikes, and this is my mom's car and, like, mopeds, and it was just a blast, and all the kids did great.

Amy Henschen: 02:54

And one of the five year olds had the best car for distance. It was amazing. And I am gonna miss these kids so much. So I think we have one more session, and then I'm gonna take a little break because it was just like a side hustle, fun gig for me. And then we'll hopefully do one more session, like, late spring, early summer, I'm hoping, because it's just been amazing.

Amy Henschen: 03:14

So yay, Cloverbuds. They bring my life joy. So that's been one of the work things I've been going and doing that is cool. But then my other thing I've been working on, guys, that does not work at all, is I learned how to crochet. I'm, like, super jazzed about it.

Amy Henschen: 03:28

So I bought one of those little, like, learn to crochet kits and made a little dinosaur. His name is Fred. And he turned out pretty good for my first project. I did a bunch of, like, I'm not, like, good at this is, like, gonna be a cute project. I wanna, like, do some stuff beforehand and not ruin this.

Amy Henschen: 03:45

So I, like, did some YouTube tutorials and just made, like, squares and stuff. But, like, I've made two more Freds of different colors. I've been to Joann, like, six times, in the last three weeks just buying more supplies because I'm like, I'm out of eyeballs. I'm out of I need another color of yarn. So I'm all in, and I went the Forest Preserve District has, like, a cool, like, yarn circle where you can just go talk to other people who knit and crochet and embroider and just have some time to chat and crochet.

Amy Henschen: 04:15

So, like, I'm I'm officially an old lady, guys. It's it's it's great. And I made a lemon, and I'm making a penguin next. So two lemons, penguins next. I'm, like, rock and rollin'.

Amy Henschen: 04:27

Yay crochet. Yay being old.

Ryan Littlejohn: 04:30

Now just a point of clarification. This is Fred the dinosaur, not Fred the frog, who we've talked about before on this podcast.

Amy Henschen: 04:40

Correct. Like, pure coincidence that, like, the crochet kit has the dinosaur named Fred. And I was like, that was probably why I picked him. Like, I was like, there's a whole wall of different kits, and I was like, between a few, but then this one's like, he was a dinosaur, which was, like, in my top five that I was picking from, but then his name was Fred. So I was like, gotta go for it.

Amy Henschen: 05:00

We have a frog named Fred in our office. So, maybe I'll put them together in a picture and post that somewhere. Right now, Fred the frog is apparently, like, hibernating or something. He is burrowed into his coconut husk stuff and is nowhere to be found, but we know he's still in there. He's done this every winter, but it's like you don't know how long he's gonna be there.

Amy Henschen: 05:24

So we're just kinda waiting for him to emerge, and then, you know, put some more crickets in there and and keep going. So, yeah, things have been going good. Michele, what have you been up to?

Michele Aavang: 05:35

Well, I am missing my Fred updates. I I seem to have dropped off of that information, So I am looking forward to catching up with you and Andrea and, how Fred the frog is doing. So right now, kind of exciting. We're just waiting, for my oldest daughter. She is unfortunately in the hospital, but she is there to have a baby, a little early.

Michele Aavang: 05:58

We're trying to extend it a little bit. So, we're super excited that this will be our first grandbaby. So, news to come on that. Yesterday was an exciting day for my youngest. We went prom shopping the most gorgeous prom dress. She just looks beautiful.

Michele Aavang: 06:16

So that was a fun day for my youngest and, you know, trying to spend time with my middle daughter, and she's up in Oshkosh, and she's a nurse up there. And so we're we're really enjoying our our adult children and almost adult children.

Amy Henschen: 06:33

Okay. So I have a question for you, Michele. So you said first grandbaby. Are you are you very feel very strongly about the term grandma or grandmother? Because I know from, like, my per other people in my life, there's definitely some grandmothers or grandmas who are like, you will not call me a grandma.

Amy Henschen: 06:53

You will call me nana or my another cutesy name because I feel too young to be a grandma. So they, like, get hung up on the and I get I get it. I'm not like but I'm just curious if you felt strongly one way or another. You're like, whatevs. Call me whatever you want.

Michele Aavang: 07:10

I really don't have any strong feelings. I feel like I'm gonna answer to whatever that baby wants to call me. And I think that if I have a nickname, it's gonna be from them specifically. So I really don't have any strong feelings on it, but I'm Aavang slash Barron's. So a lot of, you know, my kids call me mama bear, so I expect to be, you know, nana bear at some point.

Ryan Littlejohn: 07:35

Amy, it's funny you bring that up because that's been a big conversation and me and my wife's family about what our parents are gonna be called. And I grew up both my grandparents were grand grandma and grandpa. Like that was very normal, but my mother-in-law was like, I will not be called grandma. And I was like, okay. I said, what do you want to be called?

Ryan Littlejohn: 08:01

And she goes, I don't know. I'll think on it. So I started going around asking everyone in our unit who have grandkids. I said, what what are you, like, what are your grandkids call you? I think the the coolest one was Lovie.

Ryan Littlejohn: 08:14

One of our SNAP workers, her grandkids call her Lovie. And then of course, Tara, our County director here who we've had on the podcast, she's granny T because she doesn't want to be called grandma. I've done some research on this, believe it or not. But I found a study about how different generations, specifically generation X does not want to be called grandma and grandpa. It's kind of one of those things.

Ryan Littlejohn: 08:40

I think it goes along with it's a different stage in your life. So it's a little weird. For my mother-in-law, if those of you who know her in Extension, she was a talker and she would let make sure that you knew her point, but she wants to be called Yaya. And I said, that makes sense because she likes to Yaya Yaya all the time. So So we'll see where that ends up.

Ryan Littlejohn: 09:01

I'm sure we'll have to talk about it again. But I just I've done some you should look up the studies about it.

Amy Henschen: 09:08

I just need to just say, like, of course, Ryan looked up the study. Like, we would expect nothing less.

Michele Aavang: 09:17

Yes. Exactly. I thought how appropriate. Ryan's done looked up a study. Of course.

Michele Aavang: 09:22

Of course, you have, Ryan.

Amy Henschen: 09:24

Well, Ryan, aside from looking that up, what or what's going on in your life?

Ryan Littlejohn: 09:30

Well, today I am working on a new workshop, that one of my clubs had brought an idea to me. They wanna do a recruitment type workshop where kids can make 4-H projects. And I said, oh, I just learned about this really cool program that another EPC does. Shout out, Sara Seyfert, Meet the Projects. So we're doing a little Meet the Projects workshop here in Wayne County that we're working on with one of my clubs.

Ryan Littlejohn: 10:00

They're gonna find the older kids in their club that have done certain projects, and we're just gonna do, like, a basic first beginning level, project for the kids to do. They can come and go, learn about 4-H , meet the different projects, and hopefully enroll. So that's been exciting today. Trying to figure out who was gonna buy all the supplies was gonna be a nightmare. But then my club leader was like, I need to spend money.

Ryan Littlejohn: 10:26

And I'm just gonna buy everything that we need for this. I was like, great, even better. I don't have to do it. Because I, I despise shopping for workshop supplies because, you know, I live in Wayne County. I don't have like a big Walmart that's close to us or a Hobby Lobby or a Joann's or anything like that.

Ryan Littlejohn: 10:46

So I always have to travel and get workshop supplies and it turns into a whole day thing. Just not my thing. But that's exciting. I have one thing that I'm gonna share because it's something new I'm gonna add to our podcast. And I think I'm gonna get this right.

Ryan Littlejohn: 11:03

We record our episodes obviously before they air. And it's not usually like a week before that we record. It's usually a month or two. And I think Michelle's episode will air on March 14. I think that's if I did my math right.

Ryan Littlejohn: 11:20

And my wife for Christmas got me a dad joke of the day calendar. So I've got a dad joke that goes every single day. So I'm going to make sure that I share this dad joke for the fourteenth, the day that the first part of this episode will air. I don't really care about the second one because it won't fit in right. But for our fourteenth, the dad joke of the day for March 14, which is a Friday, happy March 14.

Ryan Littlejohn: 11:48

Saint Patrick's Day is coming up. I hope you get some green. You should have some green. You work in 4-H , possibly. You better own some green.

Ryan Littlejohn: 11:57

But here is your dad joke of the day for March 14. Statistically, only one in seven dwarfs are happy. But okay.

Henry Craft: 12:07

Sorry. I was laughing. I was slow on the mute. Dad joke. Right?

Henry Craft: 12:11

It's good. Dads have to bluff.

Ryan Littlejohn: 12:14

It fits me perfectly. I need to get my New Balance shoes, my khaki shorts, and my tube socks out, and I'll be good.

Henry Craft: 12:22

Mhmm. Oh my goodness. I love that. So, I mean, as we've we're on the laugh train here, we're starting out with some jokes. We always have very serious questions here on the podcast, and, today is no different.

Henry Craft: 12:35

And that question that we wanna pose to all parties here is, if you didn't need to worry about money, what job would you choose to spend all of your time doing?

Amy Henschen: 12:50

I mean, love 4-H , but I'm outdoorsy y'all. I wanna be outdoors, and I can't do that full time as a 4-H person, so sorry. I'm gonna be a National Park ranger. And if I can't be a National Park ranger, I think I'm qualified. I think I'm qualified.

Amy Henschen: 13:05

I'm gonna be a volunteer at the national parks. They have people, guys. I was at Shenandoah, hiked down, did this cool, like, eight mile hike, got to the it was called the Summer White House where evidently some one, some president, had some would hang out there in the summer. And there was, like, this cool couple there, and they gave me a tour of these buildings. And I was like, so what's the deal?

Amy Henschen: 13:28

Do you work here? And they're like, oh, no. We're volunteers, and they're retired. And I was like, oh my gosh. You're my idols.

Amy Henschen: 13:34

They're like, we just take these volunteer gigs with the National Park Service. So we live here at this facility. We have free free board. We have we have a a day off a week, maybe two, where we go to town and get supplies and stuff. But we essentially just, like, hang out, and, like, one of us has to be around to give tours for an hour.

Amy Henschen: 13:55

And I'm like, this sounds amazing. And they're like, last summer, we lived in a lighthouse on in North Carolina for doing the same thing. And I'm like, yes, please. So this is what I wanna do. I just wanna, like, travel around to different National Parks and National Historic Sites, National Seashores, and, be a cool interpretive ranger who gives tours and talks about nature.

Amy Henschen: 14:16

That's what I wanna do. This is gonna be my part time retirement job for surezies, but that'd be it. And, I I sometimes think about quitting and just trying to do it now, but it's really hard to not to work somewhere that where, like, the jobs are very seasonal and, like, trying to move your life and it's just hard, you know, to to think about doing that. I've I've thought about it a few times.

Michele Aavang: 14:39

I gotta jump on this right after Amy because she probably knows that I'm gonna say the same thing. I would totally be a National Park ranger. Absolutely.

Amy Henschen: 14:54

Dude lets' just do this together as our post-retirement, we're like, it's gonna be the Michele and Amy show, and we're gonna, like, give tours of

Amy Henschen: 14:58

lighthouses to people. And, like, oh my god. This is gonna be the best. I'm in.

Michele Aavang: 15:03

Totally. I'm totally on board. My middle daughter is always telling my youngest daughter every time we pull up to a National Park booth that, that's gonna be mom in about ten years, round hat and all. Her camper's gonna be out back.

Michele Aavang: 15:17

She says we're gonna go see every place. We wanna see mom. We gotta go to a new National Park every year. So that's that's my goal. I would totally love that.

Michele Aavang: 15:25

I love being able to, you know, there everybody's happy. Everybody wants to come and see this new National Park, and I'm so glad to be a part of a 4-H , and I think it kinda falls in line with the same thing and being able to share exepriences and share stories. And I think that just meshes so well with National Park and, oh, goodness, to be outside all the time. I don't care if it's raining, snowing, whatever. I'm there.

Henry Craft: 15:53

And for those that don't know, these two were the ones that went to national conference early and hiked all over the mountains of Boise. So or all of Idaho. So, yeah, that checks out, and they've already started their adventures. So, yeah. So for me though, I would say, I think along the same lines, right, if I could if I could absolutely support myself and secure my future and all that stuff, I would still, I'd be a a hobby farmer, man.

Henry Craft: 16:23

I I live on a small property, and, every year, we raise our own, garden from seed and, like, with all the black lights and the heat mats and stuff, and we've got animals. If I could just do that, I would, I would totally just sustain myself off of my land and that would be amazing. But yeah, outdoors and, low stress is what I would say. Only thing you gotta worry about is rain. Right.

Henry Craft: 16:55

So Ryan, what do you think?

Ryan Littlejohn: 16:58

I'm kind of like you, I would, I would want to, farm full time be a stay at home dad. That would be fun. But like, there's another part of me too, my dream job. When I got into high school and college, I wanted to go work in a Broadway pit and play the piano. I like, and I was like, I never wanted to do it because it's so hard to make it and that kind of world, especially in New York.

Ryan Littlejohn: 17:26

But I like, I like playing the piano. I like all of the food options that you could get in New York. I don't know how I'd how I would do with the city aspect of it. When I visited New York, I, like, I could handle the week there. I just don't know.

Ryan Littlejohn: 17:40

But that would be kind of two ways. I could go either way.

Amy Henschen: 17:45

Okay. I love this idea of you playing piano in the pit, and I think it's fantastic. But, like, in my brain, Ryan plus city living, like, long term just, like, does not compute in my brain. I feel like you'd go a little stir crazy in a, like, opposite kind of way that, like, a city person would go if they're like, there's no one here. But it'd be so fun to see.

Amy Henschen: 18:07

But if you were independently wealthy, you could just take time and go back to a nice pastoral land to get your fix. So I guess, you know, it's all good. But I love that. And, like, I need to see you play some piano, mister organ man. That needs to happen.

Henry Craft: 18:25

I don't know how you get your hunting fix. Maybe if you hunted, rats or something in NYC, that could happen. Ryan the Pied Piper just getting his hunting fix. Yeah.

Ryan Littlejohn: 18:35

You know, I I could have a summer home. Like, you know, Broadway does have an off season. So if I had an off season and I had a summer farm land somewhere out in Montana, maybe, or Wyoming, you know, pretty views, big game to hunt. I think that would be private jet to fly back and forth so I don't have to fly on commercial air class. I could do it.

Henry Craft: 19:02

I guess I didn't realize that we were like this. I'm I missed the memo on the sandbox of this activity. I didn't know we could have be, you know, somewhere in Dubai, in the sky rise.

Ryan Littlejohn: 19:15

You don't have to worry about money. That's what it says here.

Amy Henschen: 19:19

Well, I love that. We got a little, peek into the aspirations of our all of us, and it's kind of a fun thing to do. But let's dive in and get to know Michele like we promised. So Michele Aavang lives on a farm outside of Huntley in Northern Illinois. She taught in the classroom before joining the Illinois 4-H team as a program coordinator in McHenry County in 2015.

Amy Henschen: 19:41

She earned her Master's while working as a program coordinator and shifted to an educator role in the summer of 2023 . Although, man, Michele, it feels like way longer ago. So she currently provides leadership and engages youth in both Lake and McHenry Counties - the greatest unit in Illinois says the biased person who did 4-H there as a kid - and those counties are right on the border with Wisconsin. So she's up up north, in Illinois and probably goes up north to Wisconsin quite a bit. We're so excited to have you with us, Michele.

Amy Henschen: 20:12

Can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and how you found your way to Extension?

Michele Aavang: 20:17

Yeah. Thanks for having me on. This is just kind of a a great privilege, you know. You guys are such superstars. So, my story doesn't start, oh, I was an alumni and and came on board.

Michele Aavang: 20:30

I wish I very much so that I had been a 4-H alumni, but I came to 4-H through my husband's family. His family was a part of McHenry County 4-H and still volunteering to this day. But my kids started 4-H when they were about eight. You know, we moved around club to club trying to find a good fit. Finally did took us about three clubs.

Michele Aavang: 20:56

We finally found a good fit and I I always I'm very passionate about belonging because, it's a miracle we didn't quit in the beginning. We just didn't feel like we belonged, but we stuck it out. I knew this was a great program, and I had only wished that as a, as a kid, I had been in 4-H . I was a Girl Scout. I was in Girl Scouts.

Michele Aavang: 21:18

I previous to my coming to 4-H I was a Daisy leader and

Michele Aavang: 21:22

girl scout leader because that's what I did as a kid. And that's what my mom did is as a kid and found that given a choice, our kids had to to choose with activities and being a little bit overextended as a family. You know, we asked them, what what really do you think is the most important part of this extracurricular, you know, either girl scouts or 4-H and, it was a family discussion, and they had decided that they loved the independence they had in 4-H , being able to make those choices themselves. And, you know, we're talking like, nine and 11 years old that they're making these choices. And I thought that was really important.

Michele Aavang: 22:09

And, what the other part that was important is that their family was with them. It wasn't individual. It was family space that we were able to share. So with that, you know, we we kind of embarked on our 4-H journey. You know, I got to live vicariously through my kids and do sewing projects and cooking and a lot of hiking with uncle Rob.

Michele Aavang: 22:32

You know, he my brother's, it was a what's called being a an environmental biologist. And and so, but we lived on a farm, so it was all aspects of that agricultural component. We just really my kids wanted to do everything. I mean, I think one year we did at least 18 projects each kid. It was ridiculous.

Michele Aavang: 22:52

And then they started to show animals. But anyway, so they were really thriving in this environment. And, where we live in Huntley used to be a super small agricultural community. And within twenty years, it exploded into what now is, you know, kind of the edge of that urban sprawl and a lot of subdivisions. So it was kind of overrun by that.

Michele Aavang: 23:18

So my kids were kind of living in two different worlds, but with that, they had just an explosion in that student population. It was difficult to kind of find their own individual success in that environment. Great kids. They were but, you know, there's everyone's competing to be number one, and it's hard to be number one when you're one out of, you know, 1,200 kids. So 4-H really is where they found that place of success, that individual success, that group success, that that community of kids that like the same things that they did.

Michele Aavang: 23:55

You know? Again, we lived on a farm in an area where there's only about two farms left where we live. So they were able to kinda hang on to that history, that, family history by, being a part of the 4-H program. So, anyway, I I wound up, starting a new club, and we were a really successful club. And we had kids in general projects, livestock.

Michele Aavang: 24:18

You know, we were just a lot of leadership involved in that. And then I started a SPIN club on top of that. We did a conservation SPIN club and aspects of our local conservation district. And then, you know, when you're that active, the the program coordinator that was in the office, you know, anytime she needed anything. Volunteers are hard to come by sometimes, and she tagged me for quite a few things.

Michele Aavang: 24:47

And one of those was being a director on the local 4-H foundation, wound up being president. And from there, she wound up calling me one day and says, hey, I'm going back to teaching. I know you don't have a full time job. Why don't you come on board? So I did.

Michele Aavang: 25:04

It was supposed to not be this long, but, you know, I had a background in teaching and I enjoy social studies and 4-H is very similar to social studies. So for me, it was a great transition. I already had a relationship with a lot of the the leaders. I had a working knowledge of the finance because of foundation, and so it just it just happened. It just fell into my lap.

Michele Aavang: 25:28

So I love it. Some days, I miss being a program coordinator because I miss being in the trenches with all my friends on the day to day with all those volunteers.

Amy Henschen: 25:38

I love that, Michele. I think I'm guessing you found some value in having already been a 4-H parent, been a 4-H volunteer, been on the foundation in taking on that, like, extension program coordinator position, like, that probably helps your viewpoint on, like, looking at processes and looking at things to try to make things easier for folks.

Michele Aavang: 26:02

Yeah. I think that experience being on the other side of it really guides how I do my job. I really try to make things as accommodating as I can, if I can do the legwork ahead for those volunteers, or for those parents, or anticipate what their questions are going to be, or where, they might need more information. You know, I really think that experience has just made this program much more successful here in McHenry County and now also transitioning over to Lake and McHenry. You know, I do a lot of train the trainers because our population is so big.

Michele Aavang: 26:43

So having a little bit better understanding coming from a school district that had really a student population explosion, understanding how to navigate that and how I can make things easier for teachers by doing a train the trainer for them and giving them the resources that they need and having them at their fingertips.

Ryan Littlejohn: 27:05

Michele, I got to know you very early on in my extension career. And one thing that stood out to me is you were so passionate about what your program was and what you do. And I remember whether it be sometimes we have conversations and you were working, like, ridiculous hours a week. And I was like, what does this lady do outside of work? Like, I was I was so worried.

Ryan Littlejohn: 27:33

And we wanna know, how do you like to spend your free time and decompress from your job? Do you like to go walleye fishing since you're so up north?

Michele Aavang: 27:43

Well, Ryan I do enjoy walleye fishing and, bass fishing when I can. I do have a family cabin up north as we say here, in Wisconsin outside of Hayward, So, yes, once a year at least once a year, I should say. My family and I take some time and go up to Atkins Lake. We drag all of our kayaks up there and our paddle boards. We spend a time at the cabin on the lake.

Michele Aavang: 28:14

It's just, you know, old trailer house probably should be condemned, but that's okay. We don't care. No phone, no Internet, no TV. Spend a week there on the water. I, every morning with my coffee, go outside and watch sunrise over the lake, and listen to the loons and all of, you know, nature's calling in the morning, and, you know, spend some time swimming, kayaking, you know, go into town, go into Copper Falls, go for a hike here.

Michele Aavang: 28:47

I cut down a lot of trees. Believe it or not, that is therapeutic. We do cut down whatever, whatever might look like it could fall on the trailer or over the drive or whatever, running a chainsaw will do that, kind of relieve a little stress and, and, a lot of burden. And, but that's what I do. You know, we do that once a year, but I would say decompressing from my job being, like I said, we're on, we're on the edge of suburbia here.

Michele Aavang: 29:17

One direction is all houses, but if I look Southwest, we have the most beautiful sunset almost every day. So if I'm lucky and I'm home, I like to go outside and kinda prop myself up on the on the picnic table and watch the sunset, believe it or not. And it makes my day better.

Ryan Littlejohn: 29:41

I'm a sucker for a good sunset.

Henry Craft: 29:44

I'm a sucker for Northern Wisconsin. I'm just saying. I mean, Hayward's pretty country. You know, Michele, I just, you had me sold on Hayward. Just saying.

Henry Craft: 29:53

I was a hall director up in, Menominee for a while. So just take the highway straight north, and that's where all the the pretty country is. But yeah. Well, since we're on the topic of questions and fun questions at that, I think this one's got a fun fun slant to it. Also, I think from a psychological perspective, there's something to read into all of these.

Henry Craft: 30:15

So if you were a Microsoft Office program, which one would you choose to be?

Michele Aavang: 30:25

Gosh. You know, that is such a question. I I saw this question before we got on, and I had mentioned it to to, Megan, the new program coordinator that took my old position, and she kinda laughed. She says, actually, I would say you're the data system because you know everything. So I don't know.

Michele Aavang: 30:46

I was kinda thinking which one would I choose to be or which one would I be. I don't know. You know, I'm kinda old school. I know Canva is the big thing right now, but, man, I could use the heck out of Publisher, believe it or not. So I could do a lot with Publisher.

Michele Aavang: 31:02

I could do a newsletter like you wouldn't believe old school. I could do, I could do a postcard, a a wedding invite. I can think I could do, a lot in Microsoft Publisher. Yeah. It's a it's a little structured, a little creative.

Michele Aavang: 31:19

I know that's out there. Right?

Amy Henschen: 31:21

No. I love I mean, it's a good fit for you, but I love okay. So as someone who used to do graphic design for a living, Publisher is, like, the most complicated and convoluted way to do any design, so that you got that good and comfortable with it is, like, way to go. You that should be you should have a badge for "I suffered through having to learn and use Publisher wildly in crazy ways instead of being able to have access to one of these more expensive better systems," so way to go. And I love that you but as I don't even know if Publisher does guys I don't even know if Publisher still exists is it still is it still a program in the suite?

Henry Craft: 31:59

It it does, it's still there. I just looked.

Amy Henschen: 32:01

I wonder if it's gotten better.

Ryan Littlejohn: 32:03

Don't recommend it.

Michele Aavang: 32:05

It it has not gotten better, it is still there, I still use it occasionally because I got old stuff in there that's just easier to edit. I grab an image from Canva and throw it in, it's done. Yes, that would be right, you know, I use what you got. I had Publisher, that's what we do.

Henry Craft: 32:24

I gotta know from everybody, this one this one I I just got some I've got some assumptions and I'll go ahead and share mine if you don't mind, but Amy and Ryan, I I definitely want to hear yours because I gotta guess, I would say for me I was gonna go Excel, but I'm not organized enough for Excel. I can't claim that one. I would say PowerPoint. I think, you know, what you see is what you get, and, I don't do transitions, you know, like, you know, that was all the rage back in the day when they were trying to push PowerPoint transitions. And then we're just like, that sucked.

Henry Craft: 32:57

Let's never do that again. Yeah.

Amy Henschen: 33:01

I have a sneaking suspicion that Ryan and mine will be the same, but we'll see what he says. I'm Excel. It's Excel. It's Excel. It's Excel.

Amy Henschen: 33:09

Like, give me that sweet data. Give me a way to organize it. Give me a way to look at it and analyze it so I can make the best decisions possible. Like, that's what I want. I'm probably using it in a different way than Ryan because he's actually more organized than me.

Amy Henschen: 33:25

I just, like, need all the data to, like, sit and think and, like, I'll slowly absorb, and he's probably, like, woo, woo, woo, like, moving it around and organizing it, making lists and check boxes and stuff like that. I'm not using it for that, I'm doing using it for just big picture making good decisions. So, I'm an Excel girl. Like, I like it and I think it relates to my personality well.

Ryan Littlejohn: 33:46

K. So, I am the generation of kill- of children in school that had to learn all of these programs because I didn't have a typewriter when I was in school. I had a laptop.

Amy Henschen: 34:00

Just to note, all of us are at, you know, at least ten years older than Ryan and giving him evil stares right now.

Henry Craft: 34:08

And we are far older than typewriters

Amy Henschen: 34:08

We didn't type we didn't type on typewriters our whole careers in as youth, just for the record.

Ryan Littlejohn: 34:17

No. But I had laptops in school. You guys had those big old clunky computers that

Henry Craft: 34:23

We had keyboarding class. Okay.

Ryan Littlejohn: 34:27

I had typing. Yeah. You learned how to type and then you had to go into Word and do all these pretty things and then word art. Yeah. Like that was a thing and make a PowerPoint and Excel.

Henry Craft: 34:40

It's really good we don't record this in person. I'm just saying right now, it's really good. We don't do that.

Ryan Littlejohn: 34:46

I use Excel a lot. You're like, I I do because that's, it works very well for me. I can make a lot of checklists and everything can be nice and one size and I can format it the way I want. But if I had to pick, I'm, I'm gonna be One Note because I have all of my notes for everything. There's so many different subsections and categories and colors and things that you need, like you can do take your notes on.

Ryan Littlejohn: 35:17

It's all in one spot. I can write on my iPad. It's there. I can do it on my phone. It's there.

Ryan Littlejohn: 35:21

I can do it on my computer. It's there. I mean, it's like, you just everything's all together. Now I'm not saying my life's all together because it's not. But at least I can attempt.

Henry Craft: 35:32

Thanks for joining us for this episode of Behind the Clover. Join us next time as we continue our conversation with Michele about youth leadership and her ambassador program.