This is Behind the Clover: Real 4-H Talk with Real 4-H pros. A look at 4-H from the perspectives of 4-H professionals from Illinois and beyond with your hosts, Henry Craft, Amy Henschen, and me, Ryan Littlejohn.
Amy Henschen: 00:34Welcome back to Behind the Clover as we continue our conversation with youth development educator, Kasey Kemme, on transitioning to Extension from the world of education.
Kasey Kemme: 00:45So I applied for this job and got it, and I went to my principal. I remember he was a hard, tough military man. So I called him into my classroom and I said, can I talk to you for a minute? So we started the school year in August. This was Labor Day.
Kasey Kemme: 01:01So I had been, like, less than a month into teaching the second school year with them. And I said, hey. I need to tell you something. Like, I applied for this job that essentially is what I wanna do with my life. I think there's gonna be a lot more joy in it than what I have right now.
Kasey Kemme: 01:18And I said, this is the step in the career my career that I need. And I remember crying in front of him, and he just kinda looked at me and was like, stop crying. It's the it's the step you need to take. It's the right step for you and your family. I think it's time.
Kasey Kemme: 01:35And I said, okay. And then I gave him, like, a month notice so he could try and find someone to replace me in a month. And the end of the month hit, and he came back down to my room. He's like, are you sure? And I said, yeah.
Kasey Kemme: 01:47I'm pretty sure. I've kinda come to the conclusion that this is what's happening and all this stuff. So, yeah, I started this in October of 2021. So as that transition happened and looking back, it was just the post COVID expectations that are on teachers is really what kinda did me in, I think. I loved the kids.
Kasey Kemme: 02:09I miss the kids that I taught so, so much, and I have some of them, like, that'll randomly text me. I have their moms on Facebook, and I'll get pictures here and there. I saw I see some of them in the grocery store, but out of all of that, I can definitely say that it's the kids that I miss the most for that. But leading me to four h, I really think that the informal side of education is what really opened my eyes. Like, I can be a teacher still, but it's in a very different way.
Kasey Kemme: 02:45And my training isn't going to waste because I'm not necessarily in the classroom every day and teaching six subjects on top of all the basics of life. I get to go in and do a targeted lesson, and then I get to be the fun person that gets to come in every now and then and do all the fun things. So I really think that that was what made me excited about this position. And what makes me excited every day is I get to go to a different school and do some fun activities.
Amy Henschen: 03:15I love that you shared all that, Kasey. And it's so relatable that sometimes you kind of have a feeling it's time to switch. But when you feel guilt, right, because you care about this place and you care about people in it. And it's so nice to have someone who's like reiterates to you. Maybe it's not a person you expect.
Amy Henschen: 03:34Yeah. You're making the right decision. It's the right time. It's the right next step. That's so powerful.
Amy Henschen: 03:39And, like, I hope everyone has that person in their lives that helps them when they have a tough decision to make, you know, affirms that they're on the right track. That's so so cool.
Henry Craft: 03:51Well, I think too, like, people that go into teaching, you've gotta have passion for it. Just, I mean, knowing all the things that teachers have to do, and it is really evident just hearing how you talk about teaching in the process. And, I mean, just caring for kids, that that's really a passion point for you, and and we're we're incredibly lucky to have you. I think it's interesting that, you know, so oftentimes you get those, you know, the folks that are super passionate that that have plans to stay in the classroom. And then it's almost like when it gets kinda sucked dry or your energy, it's the I think it's a point of caution for for all of us in the field that can take a lot of energy in either teaching or paraeducation if we're not refilling ourselves or even just the sheer function of even an extension, if we if we take the joy out of the job, then, you know, we're not gonna sustain.
Henry Craft: 04:51So I think I think there's a lot of great pieces in there. And so, hopefully, people get a lot of key nuggets out of there because there were a lot, and I think there's a lot even for our organization that you you just laid down there. So I appreciate just your testimony in that.
Kasey Kemme: 05:08Yeah. Definitely like that joy sucking thing. If you don't have joy in what you're doing every day, it's gonna be hard to go and push through day to day activities. So like Amy said, having that person who kind of points that out and tells you, like, you're good to go. It's fine.
Kasey Kemme: 05:23It's okay. Do it. Make sure you have that person in your corner.
Ryan Littlejohn: 05:27So, Kasey, what gives you joy as a 4-H educator? Like, what is the thing that just makes your job the best in the world?
Kasey Kemme: 05:36I I'm gonna use an example from Monday. I was going in for my specials classes. So I had the option of doing Mondays or Fridays, and I chose Mondays. And they don't seem to remember week to week who they have because I see them once every three weeks and for, like, each class. So I'll see, like, one class and then three weeks later, so on and so forth.
Kasey Kemme: 06:01So it's on a rotation. It's kinda crazy. They don't remember where they're going. I had some second graders around the corner yesterday, and they were like, yes. Miss Kasey's here today.
Kasey Kemme: 06:13And so it was just the excitement that they have whenever I even walk in the building. I had some sixth graders from last year see me in the hallway, and they were like, oh, are you coming to my room? Are you coming to see us? And no. I'm not.
Kasey Kemme: 06:26I'm with second and third grade. Can you figure out a way to work with seventh grade, please? And so, like, the excitement that the kids have, whether it be just a bay like, in the 4-H setting or in the classroom setting whenever we come to see them, I think is really exciting. I had a 4-H this past summer. I was actually out on maternity leave, but as Amy said, I don't sit at home.
Kasey Kemme: 06:50Like, that's not me. So Baylor was, like, a month old. I loaded him to his car seat, and we went to one show at every fair that I have. And I walked up and one of the kids were like, you had a baby? Are you working today?
Kasey Kemme: 07:05And I said, no. And they're like, why are you here? I'm like, well, I came to watch you guys show. They didn't hear you guys. They heard you.
Kasey Kemme: 07:13You came all the way to watch me show my pic? I was like, yeah. I drove all the way over here just for that. Well, I'm gonna go do good. And he took off running.
Kasey Kemme: 07:23And so literally the excitement that the kids have and that the relationship that I get to build with them on a different level to become a trusting adult in their corner really gives me joy in this job.
Amy Henschen: 07:35Oh my gosh, Kasey. So if you guys if you find yourself stuck in your office with paperwork and tedium for a couple weeks, getting out there and programming and seeing those smiles and bringing that young energy and excitement. Make sure you budget that in and plan for that because that's again, if you wanna keep that energy level up, you gotta be seeing those people. So that's so fun that you have that reoccurring opportunity to see all those folks.
Henry Craft: 08:05When we thought about starting this podcast, it was really as as we've said in in other meetings about behind the clover, it's a labor of love. And we're really trying to give a voice and a perspective for people to connect with really crucial things when it comes to working in 4-H or coming to 4-H . And so our next question is really the heart of this transition series. And so not only is this for 4-H extension staff to connect with, but maybe for those that are thinking about the leap from formal education to informal education. So the question is, what advice would Kasey Kemme have for other folks that may be thinking about making that transition, the big leap, making that final decision to leave formal education and come to the para or informal education side?
Kasey Kemme: 09:03Well, first of all, I would say if you're even considering Extension to try and get on as extra help in the your local unit, I think that having those experiences really opened my eyes to what Extension was. I still feel like we're in an era where people still don't fully know all the different parts of Extension. And we actually had an intern this summer that she grew up showing livestock but had never had experiences outside of that with Extension. And she was actually the SNAP intern, and she said, oh my gosh. I had no idea that this was even connected to Extension.
Kasey Kemme: 09:40And so she is now in her senior year at Oklahoma State and has fully committed herself to becoming an Extension employee once she graduates. So really get out there and explore your options. I feel like taking a blind leap is sometimes really hard. A lot of people do it, but, really doing your research and figuring out what other informal options there are. Like I said, my master's was in curriculum and instruction knowing that I could write curriculum anywhere.
Kasey Kemme: 10:14I could go and teach teachers, at community colleges, or Jucos. There was tons of options. And in the school, we could have done, something called an instructional coach, which reviews curriculum for the classrooms and the school districts to potentially put into place. But they also teach the teachers within that school how to teach the curriculum best to their particular classes. Whenever I got this degree, that was kinda where my head was at for the formal education side of it, but I had also looked into what was the informal side.
Kasey Kemme: 10:51And actually, there's options with, hospitals, educational companies, like the textbook and curriculum companies need people in that position. HR, a lot of HR people are actually former teachers because they have the teaching background. And so I had done my research and I knew that, like, I had options. I just had to kinda figure out where those options laid. But my big advice is to do your research.
Kasey Kemme: 11:18If you have an opportunity to kinda get your toes wet, dip them a little bit, and see what that company is all about to fully take advantage of that, and then decide if it's what's best for you and your family at that time, however that would look. I will say jump it one of the biggest adjustments was having a summer off versus working all summer. I was working previously through Extra Help, but I had a lot more say of what my hours were because I was Extra Help. But making that transition as a teacher to Extension was a little more difficult than what I thought. Definitely do your research and get a little bit of experience before taking the full on leap.
Amy Henschen: 12:04Yeah. I think you have the opportunity too if you can't get on as extra help, which we'll talk about more in a second here. You could also volunteer, and you could be really honest with local staff. Like, hey. I wanna help with programming.
Amy Henschen: 12:15I wanna help you. I wanna see you program and be extra hands for you so you can kinda get a real feel for what they're doing. And things I love about Extension folks and Kasey, you're definitely one of these people who I know is a sharer. We're all so happy to share with you. If you hear this podcast and you're like, I'm a teacher and I'm thinking about transitioning to Extension, you can look Easey up on our, like, on
Kasey Kemme: 12:39the delivery.
Amy Henschen: 12:39And we'll, like, send her an email. I know, like, when I came to Illinois, I called I called two people who already worked here to be like, give me the real scoop. Tell me the challenges. Tell me, you know, tell me the things you love. Don't sugarcoat it for me because you really wanna know what you're getting into.
Amy Henschen: 12:57So I think that that's really great.
Henry Craft: 12:58Try it on. That's a great piece of advice, Easey. I wouldn't like, yeah, try it on. Like Amy said, as a volunteer or as extra help. That's I I I wouldn't have thought of that.
Henry Craft: 13:09I just
Amy Henschen: 13:10but I mean
Henry Craft: 13:10it's really like, oh, like a duh. Like, yeah, try it.
Amy Henschen: 13:13And when you look at people who who leave pretty quickly, I think they really didn't know what they're getting into. Like, who come into Extension, come into 4-H specifically. Because we do have weird hours, weird which is it's a lot. There's a lot of flexibility, and there's a lot to learn, a strong learning curve. I think a lot of people really didn't essentially talk to a real person who's done the job.
Amy Henschen: 13:34So they maybe have no they really had no what they think the job is and what the job is could not be farther apart, and they just realize it's not a fit for them in the first couple months, and they they leave. And that just isn't good for anybody. Right? Like, you don't want anyone having to spend time, you know, in a job that that's not a good fit for them. And then us not having someone who's a good fit is also not a good thing.
Amy Henschen: 13:54So it kinda goes both ways. So that's a great piece of advice.
Henry Craft: 13:57There's enough inherent unknowns. The foundational logistics of it don't need to be your, hey. Let's try this on. At least give it a shot.
Amy Henschen: 14:08So, Kasey, I wanna talk about we've we've thrown in the term extra help, and I'm realizing we probably haven't really talked about what the heck that is. So, like, tell us. So and you're extra like, when I think of extra help in my unit that I work out of, mainly our extra help is office admin people. So, like, were you doing an office admin role or, like, did extra help look different in the unit you were working in? So tell us a little bit about, like, what does extra help mean?
Amy Henschen: 14:34Do all offices have extra help? What do you know about it? Give us a little Okay.
Kasey Kemme: 14:38I can give you a little scoop on it. So, essentially, extra help literally means extra hands within the office, and there's different roles within it. Usually, you don't go over twenty seven and a half hours for the week. You're considered part time. And the flexibility of it is that you kinda get to make your own hours out of it.
Kasey Kemme: 14:58At the time that I joined unit thirteen, which is Champaign, Ford, Iroquois, and Vermillion, they had one person doing Ford and Iroquois County 4-H. Ford was kinda little, like I said, like, maybe 80 people were members. Iroquois is huge. I couldn't even give you a number at the moment, but it's a very large county, very livestock, general project heavy. Like, I will forever say that Iroquois County is a pretty decent 4-H h show throughout the state.
Kasey Kemme: 15:33So I've been to a lot of 4-H shows. Iroquois is up there on my list. Not that it's only because it's my home county, but still I so their goal was to grow the Ford County side of things. So when Ginger brought me in, she pretty much told me that that was the goal of it. They wanted to take a little bit of the work off the Iroquois County person.
Kasey Kemme: 15:55She's like, you kinda you can make your own hours. If you get called to sub, you can go sub. There's kinda some flexibility with it. As time goes as I said, it's it's kind of part time. You get to work, I believe it's seven hundred and fifty hours before you have to take a break.
Kasey Kemme: 16:12So you have to take a thirty day break after seven hundred and fifty hours. And it just so happened that they could shut me down when I went to the classroom and bring me back whenever I came. So it kinda worked out in everyone's favor. I never hit 750 hours in a summer. You have to shut it down for thirty days before you get a renewed number of hours.
Kasey Kemme: 16:36It just kinda worked out. And then throughout the year, there was livestock committee meetings and things like that. And so I could I could get paid for those. So I'd get a random, you know, $30 check here or there from a few hours I did one night. Also, what was the nice part is I was technically a U of I employee.
Kasey Kemme: 16:56So if there was some 4-H stuff that I wanted to do in the classroom, I was trained to teach it as well. During my prep time, I could go and teach some four h lessons or something in the classrooms, if I wanted to. I actually did an after school program with when I first started in Urbana with some of the 4-H stuff. So that was really cool. But extra help kinda looks different depending on where you're at.
Kasey Kemme: 17:22So some offices bring extra help on throughout the summers to help you get through, fair time. A lot of times, fair time is the busiest time and you just need extra hands. You need some people to kinda run around, do the printing and copying and stuffing of binders and all that kind of stuff. And so I feel like a lot of times that's what comes to people's minds. So it did look different because I think Ginger kinda pushed a little bit on campus for mine to look a little different.
Kasey Kemme: 17:51But at one point, I was full time all summer. I was working thirty seven and a half hours a week, sometimes more. And I would kinda fill in for whatever she had an opening for. A lot of times, I would just be doing the livestock side of things, but if there was turnover and there was an EPC position open, I would step in and cover the EPC responsibilities for the entire summer. And then so they didn't really have that gap, and whoever came in wasn't playing catch up for a long time.
Kasey Kemme: 18:20During that time, Jamie Boas was the educator there, and she was on bed rest with one of her daughters. And so she was working remotely, so I was kinda her feet on the ground in the unit, and she I would say she I was kind of her puppet because she would send me to do all these types of things. I could go and teach in her position because I had my teaching degree. Like, I was trusted to go do all of that kind of stuff. So once I'm where I managed interns, there was just a lot of different things that kind of played into it.
Kasey Kemme: 18:52But all in all, I feel like that prepared me for where I'm at now because I did the EPC work. I did the intern work. I did fill in at some offices as admin some days if needed. So I kinda it made me well rounded in the position I am now. I feel like I can relate to the EPCs a little bit better because I have done what is their job now, but years ago.
Kasey Kemme: 19:21So sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's a bad thing depending on who you ask, I think. I know what they're talking about. I can give my insight. They help me with my stuff every day. So, yeah, lots of different things.
Kasey Kemme: 19:36I don't know if I fully answered your question.
Amy Henschen: 19:38No. I mean, I just learned way more detail about Extra Help than I had any idea about. Because, again, I just think about it like, oh, when our office admins out, we get another person to come in and cover the desk. But I didn't really like all the strings. But I love that in your case, they were able to take your knowledge, your experience, and fit the job.
Amy Henschen: 19:59You know, use you use those, celebrate those, and channel that into, you know, things that are gonna benefit the local program. That's so cool that they're able to do that. And then it ended up benefiting you because it prepared you for this job.
Henry Craft: 20:11For those that aren't on quick math like me, I did some some mathing. And at thirty seven and a half hours and a limit of seven hundred fifty before a thirty day break, you could work almost five months before you had to take a break. And I don't know. I don't know if that if that was a block for anybody else to listen.
Kasey Kemme: 20:31But Sorry.
Henry Craft: 20:32There you go. No. It's good.
Kasey Kemme: 20:34And it might have gone up. It was 750 when I started, but it might be 900 now that I talked about it. It's like a big number. Like, it was really hard for me to get anywhere close to that number. And sometimes we left my employment open over two years, and then if I needed anything throughout the year, like, I could just go log some hours and get it done.
Kasey Kemme: 20:56It was kinda nice. Definitely a nice little bonus. I always say that my extra help money paid for my master's degree. So here we are. I didn't get it from U of I, but they paid for it.
Ryan Littlejohn: 21:08So, Kasey, I know you mentioned that you like the social emotional learning things. Is that your favorite type of programming? Or if not, like, what's kind of your passion and your educator role to go out and do?
Kasey Kemme: 21:24Yeah. So as soon as I got here and saw that social emotional learning programs were happening, I kinda jumped in headfirst. Those are definitely my jam. Last year, I ended up doing Mindful Me, Your Feelings Matter, and Your Thoughts Matter. Those were some ones that I was comfortable talking about.
Kasey Kemme: 21:46I was comfortable doing the lessons that were talking about them. I've talked to my the EPCs about it quite a bit, and I still have a handful that are like, not for me. I feel like if we give them some experiences to come in and see how we teach them and how we handle tough conversations that they might be a little more open to learning more about them. I am a big advocate for the social emotional learning. Since the pandemic, I feel like the teacher side of things, I told you, it got really hard and really tough, and it kinda took the joy out of it.
Kasey Kemme: 22:21Going into classrooms and being the fun lessons and getting to put my own spin on things has definitely brought that joy back to me on the social emotional learning home front. I'm currently working on trying to find some more things to do with kindergartners through third graders. I really think that's important, but we are doing Mindful Me with the second graders on at the school I'm doing specials with. But last year, I did food challenge for the first time with the regional office of education, and we had an absolute blast. So I feel like I've kinda taken a few other things like welcome to the real world and made them my own to fit the needs of our our counties.
Kasey Kemme: 23:03But that's what's really nice about the programs that we have. If it's written and it's not fitting what you need, you can change it to make it fit and to fit the audience that you're reaching. I was around when food challenge was kinda coming up and getting started and all the things, And I believe I was probably a test person at one point to make something, but I went and watched someone else teach it, and it made me so much more comfortable in it and really helped me. But, yeah, the social emotional learning and anything having to do with healthy living and food has definitely kind of been where I'm at. I will say that the college and career readiness is starting to kinda creep its way up there to a favorite as well just because we're to that point where some of those kids are starting to graduate that I started to do programs with three years ago, and that's what they need right now.
Kasey Kemme: 24:01So we're working through it. And yeah. I I mean, I've done a lot of different programs, and I'm working on kinda broadening my horizons. I'm doing We Connect this semester. And so far, I love it.
Kasey Kemme: 24:17So that was kinda me stepping out of my comfort zone this year. I tried to do that one, like, that one program a year that I'm kinda at or not adamant about, that I'm kinda scared of, and I kinda attack it. So that's my one this year, and I already promised it to another school next semester.
Amy Henschen: 24:37Okay. Love to hear excitement from WeConnect because this is one of my programs. And I love it. I think it's great. I know Ryan's done it too.
Amy Henschen: 24:45Just I'm just I'm volunteering Kasey for something. Kasey's hilarious because, like, literally, I had a meeting in her first year to talk about signature programs. And it was like, if anyone's done any of these and you wanna say something about them, you can. And I swear she was able to say something like, oh, I've done this one and I've done this one and give a tip or for, like, half the ones, and that was just her first year. So if you wanna know if a signature program is good or what grades it works with, Kasey give Kasey a call because she probably has tried it at some point.
Amy Henschen: 25:16And if she hasn't, she probably knows someone who has. But I gotta know, Kasey, like, so SEL is your jam. Do you have a favorite age group to work with? I always love asking this question.
Kasey Kemme: 25:27Oh, I go back to my teaching days. My fourth graders are hands down my favorite age to work with still to this day. Through the ROE, I've been working with junior high and seniors. And I will say that working with that group has kinda opened me up a little bit more. I have a soft spot for the seniors in my heart.
Kasey Kemme: 25:52They get they're not super excited about things, and they act like you're not cool and they don't want you to be there. And then by the end of the lesson, they're fully engaged and they're asking questions and then they're asking what we're doing next time, who's coming to visit, all those types of things. So I got a soft spot for those seniors. I don't know why.
Ryan Littlejohn: 26:12So, Kasey, it sounds like you do a lot of programs. Now do you do these all yourself, or do you have your EPCs help you too? I know different units do it different ways. So kinda like, what's your dynamic to make sure these are all getting out there and you're reaching the people you need to reach?
Kasey Kemme: 26:29Oh, love that question. So yeah. Different units do things very differently. Taking on that kinda teacher standpoint, we as a teacher, we worked in a team all the time, like, had people next to you. And I've taken on that approach with the EPCs in my unit.
Kasey Kemme: 26:49They all have things that they know more about than I do, and so they are more than welcome to teach to their, I don't know, their passions, essentially. So they can pick and choose what they wanna do, but all the programs that I've talked about with you, have personally taught myself. Last week, I was in every one of our offices. So we have four offices. I spent one day in each office working on programming for something in that county.
Kasey Kemme: 27:16I like to provide support for them. So they come to me and say, I'm really thinking about doing welcome to the real world. I know that it's meant for junior high, high school kids. I wanna do it with fifth graders. What can we do?
Kasey Kemme: 27:30So we sit down and we kind of break it down, and I give my spin on it, they give their spin on it, and together we work through it on how we want it to look. That is one of my really big things for that. And Ryan, I know I've worked with a few things with you as well. So just kinda being there for them and helping them, but letting them take their passion and run with it. One of my EPCs is really into art, and so she started her programming journey literally teaching art classes after school once a month at one of the schools in her county.
Kasey Kemme: 28:07And I think it's become, like, a two or three time a month thing, and she's with three or four different grade levels. And so letting them kinda find their path as well as working on mine throughout it all has been one of my goals, and I feel like we're finally to that point of reaching that goal. So fingers crossed that it continues that way throughout the years to come.
Henry Craft: 28:33I have two comments. First, I love your comment about I find a program that I'm a little trepidatious with, and then I attack it. That is totally the athlete in you. It's like, I'm gonna conquer this. I don't even care.
Henry Craft: 28:47And I love that, first of all. So kudos to you for having that initiative. I think we all could use a little of that. And secondly, I my background is in in mental health counseling, and I love incorporating SEL in places that people don't think that it should belong. So, like, even in our STEM curriculums, there is room for SEL.
Henry Craft: 29:12And especially if you're an SEL nerd, like, you find a way to put it in there because it doesn't matter, like, what gender, race, what, you know, age. It doesn't matter. Everybody needs that SEL. So I'm I'm I'm excited to have another pro SEL person on the on the team there. So but yeah.
Henry Craft: 29:36Honestly, Kasey, this has been a pleasure. It has been awesome to get to know you, to hear about your journey, the the tenacious people like Ginger Boas that have been in your corner to get you on the team. Just love that. And just to hear your passion for caring about a kid, honestly. And you can hear that in in your stories.
Henry Craft: 30:00You can hear it in your journey. It is. It's about the kid. And it's and not to say that it's not about the kids for everybody, but just hearing your your passion for it. And I'm so glad to hear that that might have waned a little bit is is is running heavy in your heart.
Henry Craft: 30:18And I think that's that's cool to to see and to witness, and you're making a big impact. And we have been honored to have you on our Behind the Clover podcast because we think that you're a great example of an educator, and we are excited to feature people like you. So thank you again for being with us. Yeah. Thank you.
Henry Craft: 30:42Alright, y'all. Thank you so much for going on this journey with us again and joining us for yet another episode of Behind the Clover and our episodes a series about transitions. Make sure you join us next time for even more real conversations with real 4-H pros.
Amy Henschen: 31:01Listeners, we need you. Please take a few minutes today to fill out our quick listener survey to help us keep baking behind the clover better. To take the survey, visit go.illinois.edu/btcsurvey. So once again, the BTC stands for behind the clover. Go dot illinois dot e d u slash b t c survey.
Amy Henschen: 31:25Thanks.