This is Behind the Clover: Real 4-H Talk with Real 4-H Pros. A look at 4-H from the perspectives of 4-H professionals from Illinois and beyond with your hosts, Henry Craft, Amy Henschen, and me, Ryan Littlejohn.
Amy Henschen: 00:35Welcome to another episode of Behind the Clover. I'm Amy, and I'm here with my co-hosts, Henry and Ryan. Today, we're continuing our conversation with Katie Turkal about 4-H Federation.
Ryan Littlejohn: 00:46Okay. So I'm really interested because right now in my federation, we're having a problem with the kids wanting to do anything. Every time we bring something up, they just they're silent. They don't wanna say anything. They don't wanna show up and help.
Ryan Littlejohn: 01:01How like, are these kids just rock star kids and they're like, they wanna be their doer? How do you get them motivated to do those things?
Katie Turkal: 01:08So a lot of times, I feel like with Federation throughout the years, it kind of is like a roller coaster. You'll have some years where there are kids, a lot of kids who want to do all of the things, and then other years where you're it's pulling teeth to get them to do anything. And I know we've had that, you know, same issue in the past where it's like, okay, you guys, we wanna do what you wanna do. We I need your input, and then it's it's crickets. And so what I've kind of done is I've went in a certain direction and said, okay, this is where I need your help.
Katie Turkal: 01:45And so maybe they're not planning all of the things that we're doing, but they're planning some of them. And eventually I feel like it starts to come back up depending on, you know, who you have in your group because some years they're just kids that maybe don't care as much about the leadership side of things to where they don't wanna be the leader. They just want to do what you tell them. They wanna come and help, and then they wanna go home at the end of the day. But I know it it can be frustrating because you just want them to, you know, you want them to to be the leaders, and you want them to take over leadership responsibilities.
Katie Turkal: 02:23So just remembering that, you know, this might be a year or two years that are off to where the kids just that is not their forte. That's not what they're interested in.
Amy Henschen: 02:34Man, Katie, I was, like, sitting here miming preach because I definitely had that that roller coaster is very relevant to any of us who have been here for a while. Like, even with every program we do. Right? Sometimes your cloverbuds like, is banging, then you have a dip, and then it's back up again. But I think, especially with this teen group, it's like sometimes you just have like, even one really dynamic kid can really change the attitude of everyone in the room.
Amy Henschen: 03:02So sometimes you you just I think you man, you hit this one on the head. I I really liked what you said. Like, sometimes you're just giving them more specific targeted requests, and other times you're letting them drive the whole thing because that's what they need or what they want. I love that. I wanna follow-up.
Amy Henschen: 03:17You mentioned their funding. So, like, they have a pot of money. Where's that money coming from? Are they doing fundraising, or does Extension provide those funds, or how does that work?
Katie Turkal: 03:27So they are set up a lot like a regular club. And our regular clubs, if they wanna fund an account, then they have to build their own fund. And that's what our 4-H Federation did. They do fundraising. In Jasper County, we this is a few years ago, we sold Nutty Bars, which just is an ice cream bar coated in chocolate with it can be with or without nuts on it.
Katie Turkal: 03:51And that was a huge seller. We would sell it during fair time too. Another club would kind of do the sales for the fair time, but then Federation would sell them outside of fair time. And this year, they've gone away. Things have changed a little bit, but this year, they're wanting to sell nutty bars again.
Katie Turkal: 04:07So that's just kind of a specific fundraiser. They've also done other types of fundraisers. And I will say for the high school age group, you have to get really specific on what kind of fundraisers you do, at least in in our county, because they don't have a lot of time. So if it's something that's overly time consuming, then it's not going to be it it won't work out as well as what something else possibly could. And I've just reminded the kids this year that if they wanna do nutty bars, that is a little more time consuming.
Katie Turkal: 04:43So I think also just prepping the kids and helping them realize, like, okay. This is what you wanna do. That's fantastic. But make sure you set aside that amount of time that you can actually get that done.
Amy Henschen: 04:57Yea we are such a reality check and expectation manager. Right? That's our part of our job with our volunteers and our youth. That's awesome.
Ryan Littlejohn: 05:05So, Katie, you mentioned time, and time is very valuable to us, but also the high school kids because they do so much stuff. So what do your meetings look like that you can get them there and plan all of these things?
Amy Henschen: 05:18Yeah. And I wonder, like, how often do you meet too?
Katie Turkal: 05:21Our federation meets monthly, and they they do a really good job about showing up to meetings. Though and, of course, we'll have some federation members that show up more often than others, and I think that's kind of normal just with any kind of organization or meeting. We try to keep our meeting within an hour time frame, and I we usually don't have any problems with that. I know one big draw in for our kids is they always get pizza every month, and I think that's one of the things they've enjoyed. They build that into their budget and they're able to to buy pizza at club meetings for everyone that comes.
Katie Turkal: 06:02And in order to set those meetings up to make sure that it works the best for all of the kids, we'll have a meeting at the beginning of the year before school gets overly busy, and they'll say, okay. Which day of the week and which week works best the majority of the time throughout the year? And, like, right now, we're meeting the first Monday of the month at 06:00 in the evening, and that seems to be a really good time frame for most of our kids. We have had to move it, you know, sometimes there might be a holiday or sometimes something comes up, and then it's kind of a, okay, who has what day free? Then it gets a little trickier.
Katie Turkal: 06:42But overall, we try to have a set meeting date, at the same time every month, the same day or the same day of the week every month. That way, it just makes it a little more uniform to where they know that it's coming up, and they kind of can work that into their schedule.
Henry Craft: 07:00Very good. So just just for to take a quick aside here, the reason that we're talking about these types of content questions, for those listening, have been following along, we're in a series on youth leadership and really highlighting that in 4-H in our programs. And so that's one of the reasons that Katie's here, is really talking about that youth leadership dynamic. And so that's why we're talking about foundation or Federation today and some of these other questions that we'll be following. But I just wanted to give everybody a reminder that that's exactly where we are.
Henry Craft: 07:35We're right in the middle of our series on youth leadership. And so we recognize that there are tons of great youth leadership programs throughout the state, and Katie is leading one of those great programs. So to that end, I have an additional question for you, Katie. Beyond your federation program, what other 4-H opportunities do you offer in your county that prepare youth to be the leaders of tomorrow?
Katie Turkal: 08:01We also have the 4-H ambassador group in Jasper County, and it's similar to federation in some ways. It does we incorporate or have younger kids come into that ambassador group. So our federation is ninth grade and above, but ambassadors are seventh grade and above. So that gives some junior high kids some opportunities. And what I've found throughout the years is kids, they're okay with listening to me, but they really would prefer to listen to other older kids.
Katie Turkal: 08:34It's just they would much rather look up to the older kids than to to adults of any kind. So that's one thing I really like seeing where our federation members can double. They can be ambassadors and federation members, but also ambassadors can be for those seventh and eighth grade members also.
Amy Henschen: 08:53So are the ambassadors doing similar things to federation, or is it a little bit different?
Amy Henschen: 08:57Because I know that's the thing. Like, we 4-H again, context, way back, split up, like, they gave some at the state level, like, there's this, and there's this, and this is what these things do. But then every county is different, and every county sometimes it's like, well, we're gonna call it this, but it's gonna do some stuff from here and some stuff from here. So I'm just curious, in your county, does your ambassadors, like, do different things and focus on different things than your federation, or are they similar and have overlap?
Katie Turkal: 09:22There is some overlap in the county with both ambassadors and federation, but ambassadors tend to be more of the promoting Jasper County 4-H. They do help with some of our programs, like the mini lock in. We'll have some ambassadors there and Camp Cloverbud, and that is kind of them bridging that gap in becoming federation members where they're more helping with the programs. But then just as an ambassador, they are asked to come to our county board meeting and talk to our county board members about 4-H, why they enjoy it, kind of what their favorite part of it is. And they also ambassadors are the ones that hand out ribbons and awards that are fair.
Katie Turkal: 10:06They help during what we call our grandparents day, which is when we have a meal and we do our general project awards. And they are more they have a certain shirt that they wear. They have a green polo, so it looks a little more official. Our federation members have t shirts that they wear. So like I said, both they can overlap in some ways, but whenever we're going to a county board meeting, they wear their polos.
Katie Turkal: 10:31That way, they're in a little bit more of a professional type setting.
Katie Turkal: 10:35Okay. I love this. And it it does sound if your ambassadors kind of are aligned with what the original state idea was that they're promoting 4-H .
Amy Henschen: 10:43But, man, I love listening to the things you say they do. And I have to tell people, if you don't already do what Katie just referenced of putting your kids in front of your county commissioners, consider it because it is like kryptonite. Their weakness is these cute you can't resist a 4-Her, especially if they look all cool, like, they're 4-H branding, they're ready, like, telling you about something they're excited about or something that matters to them. Like, the the harshest county commissioner, your most challenging person, it is very hard for them to resist or have anything bad to say about, like, a kid who's excited.
Amy Henschen: 11:22So, like, if you're ever if you want your funding to stay high, throw kids in front of those people, and they'll and they'll really and throw a variety of kids, and they will they will respond well usually because it's just like who can resist a a cute or professional kid talking about this program. So love that.
Katie Turkal: 11:45And that's really funny. I'll kind of add to that for our county board meeting. Sometimes kids are nervous to talk in front of county boards, and and I completely get it. I can be nervous to talk in front of the county board, so I don't blame kids for being nervous. And one of the years that we went, most of my ambassadors who went were really nervous.
Katie Turkal: 12:07And so I said, don't worry. I'll do most of the talking and, you know, they'll probably ask you a couple questions. And one of the county board members, they said, well, we're glad we heard from you, but we wanna hear from them. We wanna hear what they like, what they've been doing. And on the spot, those kids, they turned it on.
Katie Turkal: 12:25They knew the information. They just were nervous about saying the information. So I really was happy the county board member actually kind of called them out and wanted them to do it because it put them in that position, and they did a fantastic job.
Henry Craft: 12:41Honestly, I think that's a great point. Just in our counties, we do legislative outreach, which is also reaching out to our reps. I think a lot of people do that. But I think that they're tracking our outreach at an Extension level, so even higher than just the 4-H or local county level, but they're tracking how we're reaching out. And I think now more than ever, putting our face out there and making sure that, yeah, it's not even just about keeping our funding high.
Henry Craft: 13:14I think it's a necessity to keep our funding, period. You know, a lot of Extension staff haven't been around for, you know, the ten years, fifteen years that saw, you know, our in our history, we lost funding. Quite a bit of funding at one point and had to do some serious restructuring. And I think even now with different dynamics that are out there with the USDA or etcetera, we need to make sure that we are front and center of our funding sources, not only at the state level, but very much the county level because they give us a significant portion of our funding. So if you're not convinced in the importance of that, please reconsider because it is really important for us.
Henry Craft: 14:02And there are examples of that not happening and having some pretty serious consequence from it. And not to be like a doomsday, you know, caller or anything, but it is very, very important. So all that to say affirmation.
Amy Henschen: 14:19Yeah. Katie's right, though. Like, I they much rather hear from the kids. They they get a lot of adults talking at them at their meetings. Like, a kid can really just change the dynamic for everyone in that room.
Amy Henschen: 14:29So that's great. And I think it's important, like, Henry pointed out, like, not just going to the, you know, board meeting. Having a one thing we do at our county is, like, when our elected officials have, like, local community fairs, we try to get 4-H to be doing an activity at that fair so that they see us there, and they have an association with us. We try to staff that with volunteers and kids as much as possible. So, yeah, looking for those other opportunities to connect with with those folks is really great, and ambassadors are a great way to do that.
Ryan Littlejohn: 14:58Something we do here in Wayne County is we send our newsletter to our county board each month, and they have asked the kids. They're like, I've seen you in the newsletter. Can you tell me about that program that you were a part of or that award you won at the state level? Because they they show an interest. I mean, they do read it.
Ryan Littlejohn: 15:16I was shocked when that first happened because I was like, oh, it's just another email they get. But they they really do care, and I think that's important for the kids, but also for our program in the future.
Amy Henschen: 15:28Love that. Well, Katie, we wanna know, like, how do you promote these opportunities for kids? Like, how do you get kids in in the door in your youth leadership programs in the first place? What do you do to recruit? Anything special?
Amy Henschen: 15:41Are you using kids to recruit? Are you doing the recruiting? What do you do to get kids interested in signing up for ambassadors or federation?
Katie Turkal: 15:50And I can't take much credit at all. I will say word-of-mouth. The kids telling other kids, siblings, you know, getting siblings involved, getting their friends involved. That is the best way. We do send out a newsletter, and we do have an invite to federation or in incoming freshmen that say, hey.
Katie Turkal: 16:11Come to our federation meeting and free pizza, and, you know, trying to trying to bring them in that way. But really the word-of-mouth by other kids who have gone through the federation, who know how how much fun it can be and who have enjoyed it, they are the best ones to spread the word about it.
Amy Henschen: 16:30I mean, also, never underestimate the power of free pizza, I think, too. I my federation kids never thought of that. I never thought of that. I'm embarrassed to say that because once you say, like, they have pizza every meeting, it's like, well, duh. Who doesn't want free pizza? I love it.
Katie Turkal: 16:44Yeah. For real. That's a a huge they're like, okay. We have to get pizza.
Katie Turkal: 16:48You know, that's an important part of the meeting, and it has become, in their eyes, a very important part of the meeting. So we and it's funny from year to year to see what the pizza preferences are. It always kind of cracks me up. And this year is a big taco pizza preference, so we always have to have at least one taco pizza.
Ryan Littlejohn: 17:09Do you incentivize them coming, like, if they attend so many meetings a year? Like, you'll do a big trip or go on a small trip or do something fun. Like, what does that kinda look like for your club? Because I know others do.
Katie Turkal: 17:22Yeah. This year is actually the first year where we have the federation members decided they wanted to assign a point system. So depending on you have to reach a certain number of points in order to go on a trip, which we do a trip annually. And I think like all all organizations, some kids or some people in general just they're there more often. They help out more often.
Katie Turkal: 17:49They're more available. And so the kids that are at every single thing, which there are quite a few that are, they decided, well, you know, we're we're doing kind of double the work. So not that they think that other kids can't go on the trip, but maybe give a little bit more incentive for kids to try to put forth more of an effort. So they still everybody is able to go on the trip. It's just if they reach a certain number of points, their trip is fully funded through the federation.
Katie Turkal: 18:22So that's one of our probably our biggest incentive is the trip. We take one in the summertime. It's ranged from canoeing to Holiday World. We've gone to Saint Louis, done all kinds of different things. One year, they wanted to go to Saint Louis and go to Goodwill at Saint Louis, and I'm, you know, I'm up for whatever the group wants to do, so let's do it.
Katie Turkal: 18:48But it's really very depending on which kids are in and what they're kind of interested in, and it always works out pretty good. But sometimes it surprises me. Some years, we'll have a lot of kids that are available to go on the trip, and they plan it out, you know, a couple months ahead. And then other years, there are maybe a dozen that end up going on the trip. So it just kind of depends from year to year who is available, and maybe that canoeing might not be somebody's cup of tea.
Katie Turkal: 19:17So they just decide, I'm gonna sit it out this year. But I don't think what the trip is really makes a difference on how much effort they put forth.
Amy Henschen: 19:29Man, if Holiday World was an option, I would put forth so much effort. Huge coaster nerd. That park's amazing. If you haven't been there, Santa Claus, Indiana, y'all. It's great.
Ryan Littlejohn: 19:39So, Katie, you've been doing this a long time. We know you do some great things with it. We hear all about it. What advice do you have for someone looking to start or just refresh their youth leadership program in their county?
Katie Turkal: 19:54So to start a federation, I I'll be honest. I was really lucky. Both counties, both Cumberland and Jasper had an established federation. But if I was wanting to start a federation, I would maybe pinpoint a few kids who have shown extra leadership attributes to where you think they might want to do more. And then I would involve those kids and see if they have other friends or other people in 4-H who they could start building a federation with.
Katie Turkal: 20:24And give them pinpointed ideas of, you know, this is what we'll be doing, this is what you will get out of it. And, you know, of course, if it works out, I think starting a federation, it would be kind of hard to do any kind of a big trip because you do have to build that funding up. But trying to find things that really interest them to where they would wanna lead, whether it's a school program or a workshop or something like that, or at least assist with it and try to get that it going that way. I know it's kind of a daunting task whenever you haven't done it before and whenever there's nothing established in the county. I think it's it's kind of scary a little bit to try to get one going.
Katie Turkal: 21:10But how I kind of look at it is it's just another club. You're starting a new club but for teens. And so you can, you know, pinpoint more things that would be teen related, that would be more interesting to only teenagers. And that's kind of maybe where I would begin with getting one started. And then if you're revamping one, which I know we talked a little bit earlier about how it can be a roller coaster, you can go up and down, but if your numbers get really low, it's kind of disheartening and you're you might think, well, what am I doing wrong?
Katie Turkal: 21:45And it's probably nothing that you could do any differently. It's just that roller coaster of a ride going up and down who's interested and who's not. If there's already an established federation, maybe giving them a, you know, a pizza night incentive or or some other kind of incentive to see, okay, let's see who we have in the county who might be interested. Because I feel like if they have a small interest in joining Federation, that incentive is going to draw them in to where if they're not interested at all, they might think, my mom's making, you know, spaghetti tonight. I'll just eat spaghetti instead of pizza.
Katie Turkal: 22:26So I think it kind of if you can start getting that small interest, it can grow bigger and bigger. And I've also I've I've went up to kids individually and asked them, you know, hey. You are you're really helping me out during fair time. You're not in federation. You should think about joining federation.
Katie Turkal: 22:48Or those sixth graders that are becoming seventh graders the next year, hey, you should think about joining the ambassador group. And then once they're going into high school, you should think about joining Federation. And just kind of putting that seed in there, and then it starts to grow to where, oh, there are fun things that we can do. Whether there are incentives or not, that's just kind of a bonus. But I feel like kids overall, if you give them a chance to be a leader and to be, you know, in charge of something where I'm the boss, then sometimes that really appeals to that teen getting your own freedom and being the one who who's in charge.
Amy Henschen: 23:29Katie, you are giving us so much goodness today. I love that idea of planting that seed. I think that's a reminder for all of us, like, even if a kid's, you know, years away from being able to be in the low, you know, the low end of the age for your leadership team, like, oh my gosh. You'd make you'd be such a great ambassador once you hit seven seventh grade, or, oh, I think you'd be so good on this team. You should like, you know, go check out this event that they're running.
Amy Henschen: 23:54Go talk to them. Like planting that seed of just like, you're capable. This might be a good fit for you, and just doing that from an early age is so important for some people. Because it's just like going back to that awards. Like, we don't think about ourselves for awards, but if a friend mentions, "No, that thing you did was really good".
Amy Henschen: 24:12Like, one, it gives you the warm fuzzies, then you're like, maybe it was really good. Maybe I should submit it. So when an adult says, you should be in this leadership team, like, oh, I didn't think of myself as a leader, but that adult thinks of me as a leader. Like, it really can be really powerful, so I love that reminder.
Ryan Littlejohn: 24:27Now, Katie, I got a question. Do you have a leader, or do you do all of this by yourself? Or do you have, like, an adult helper? Like, kinda how does how is this set up?
Katie Turkal: 24:37That's another really great question. So I am the I took over the leadership portion of leading our 4-H federation, and one of the reasons is because I love that age group. I really love working with the teens, and I it was not that I couldn't find a leader, but I just enjoy that part of my job so much that I wanted to be the leader. And I do have help. Maybe not on a a monthly basis whenever we're doing the meetings, but there are so many like I said, I know a lot of people that I grew you know, I grew up with people that are the parents of these teenagers now.
Katie Turkal: 25:15So I I know I have tons of help if if I need to ask somebody whether they're going to be a driver or if they're going to help chaperone or bring something to a meeting if I need some extra hands. I've got a lot of fantastic volunteers in Jasper County, which I think just makes an overall really strong 4-H program that whittling it down to the federation side of things, it makes a a really strong federation to have those parents that are willing to do the work and willing to help out if if we were need to need them to.
Amy Henschen: 25:51I again, you're giving me so many good things that I'm like, yes. Everyone needs to hear this. I think Katie hit something really important. It is great to have a, like, a if you have a a a club volunteer who's also your federation adviser, awesome. But you know what?
Amy Henschen: 26:05When you're involved in that federation or leading that federation, you well, one, you gotta pay if that gives you joy and energy, make time for it. Oh my gosh, please. But two, the relationships you build with those kids are just can be so rewarding for you and for them. And, like, that again, I I had an adviser, but I was just we basically were co advisers for the, you know, the federation in my time in Colorado. And I still am friends.
Amy Henschen: 26:34Well, I didn't I don't accept friend requests till a kid graduates out of 4-H but, like, all my little teens from when I was a frontline staff person, like, I'm watching them grow their businesses and their jobs and their careers and have families. And and, like, just seeing them succeed is so great to me. And, like, they'll comment on stuff I'm doing in my life, and it's just kind of awesome to build those relationships and be a, like, caring adult in those kids' lives. But, like, I wouldn't have built those relationships if I wasn't as active and involved with my leadership team as I was. So that's just another great reminder.
Amy Henschen: 27:08You're just you're just telling us all these great things that I want everyone to know. So love it, Katie.
Katie Turkal: 27:13Well, thank you. And I will I'll comment, kinda bring it back to what you said even, just seeing the kids when they are adults and have their own families, and the it's so rewarding. It really is. And some of the kids have moved far away and they, you know, they've gone through college and and then some are back home and you see them on a on a semi regular basis. And it's just really it is a lot of fun.
Katie Turkal: 27:40It's very rewarding in a different sense.
Ryan Littlejohn: 27:43Well, you, Katie, for joining us today and inspiring us with your experience in youth leadership. I know it's definitely got me thinking about how I can revamp my federation and reach more kids, because we're kind of in that low of the roller coaster right now. And it's it's hard on me and my leader, and and on the kids, really. So I'm hoping I'm gonna send this to my leader when it comes out and be like, you really need to listen to this episode. So if you're having that struggle, just always know, like, these episodes, yeah, we say they're for staff, but, really, they're for our leaders too.
Ryan Littlejohn: 28:20Send them to them and be like, hey. Like, this will be inspiring. Like, this is what we need to give us the push forward. Thanks for joining us today on this episode of Behind the Clover. Join us next time for real conversations with real 4-H pros.