Todd Gleason: 00:00

From the Land Grant University in Urbana Champaign, Illinois, this is the closing market reported is the March 2025. I'm Todd Gleeson out of the office. Today, corn, ethanol, conservation, and a conversation. We'll talk with John Doggett. He is the former CEO at the National Corn Growers Association and serves now as the principal at Camas Creek Consulting.

Todd Gleason: 00:26

I asked John to tell us just a little bit about himself and his background.

Jon Doggett: 00:31

I am, the principal and entire staff of Camas Creek Consulting LLC, a, and, I'm mostly retired after being, the CEO of the National Corn Growers and working with, three different ag trade associations in Washington, DC over thirty some years. People ask me, you know, I well, you know, by going to DC in in 1988, in January 1988, I went to Washington DC from Montana to work for Montana congressman, Ron Marlinay. And my wife and I told my parents and her parents parents that we were taking their two lovely grandchildren from them for two years, five at the most, and they were coming back home to Montana. That was 1988. I retired two years ago.

Jon Doggett: 01:19

Math is hard.

Todd Gleason: 01:24

Well, if you've tried to do 45 z, it is hard.

Jon Doggett: 01:28

It it enabled me to do to do some of that. Yeah.

Todd Gleason: 01:31

Right. Right. Right. Okay. So a a couple of things.

Todd Gleason: 01:35

You've already given me a little bit about your background, so so that's fine. Can you spell the name of your consulting group?

Jon Doggett: 01:43

Okay. It's Camas, c a m a s, Crick, and I'm from Montana. We pronounce the the name of streams correctly. C r e e k is Crick in Montana. And, that comes from, Camas Creek cattle and sheep ranch, in Central Montana.

Jon Doggett: 02:04

That's where I grew up on that ranch, and, my family was there for five generations. And, so that's where I grew up, a hundred miles in the nearest stoplight, and, went to the University of Montana, and then got out, sold real estate for a while, and then got in the farm equipment industry in the in the early and mid eighties, which was just a grand time to be in the farm equipment industry.

Todd Gleason: 02:30

And And particularly out west. Yes.

Jon Doggett: 02:32

Yeah. And and so I went from I went from a, a district for Alice Chalmers that sold 125 combines a year to selling six, because we, you know, we had the pick program and a drought in the same year. And, so, I was a stock broker for a short time, and then a friend of mine called me and said that the congressman was looking for somebody to do his ag stuff. And, so I went to Washington, DC, worked for the congressman, for three years. He was a senior Republican on the house ag committee.

Jon Doggett: 03:06

He was the ranking Republican on the wheat, feed grains, and, oilseeds subcommittee, and the chairman of that subcommittee was a guy by the name of Dan Clickman. And, so then I worked for the, National Cattlemen's Association for about a year. I was at, the Farm Bureau for eleven years, just over sixteen years running the DC office for the National Corn Growers, and then a little over four years as the CEO.

Todd Gleason: 03:35

On that on that note, we do wanna talk about conservation today. And I you know, in the grand scheme, a lot of this is related to what happened in the thirties, again the droughts that we we have experienced in the last four decades, and I'm wondering why you think it is important to adopt conservation and climate smart practices.

Jon Doggett: 04:04

Well first of all, you're correct. Agriculture is used, been in partnership with the federal government since the nineteen thirties on conservation efforts. It has been a very good investment, for the taxpayer. It has made our agriculture industry in this country, the great, the great thing that it is. But, as I said, you know, I I worked for the American Farm Bureau back in the in the '6 or excuse me, in the nineties, and I was the guy that dealt with climate change and the Kyoto protocol and cap and trade and all of those things.

Jon Doggett: 04:40

And I think people might remember where the farm bureau was then, inalterably opposed. We don't believe there is climate change, you know, and we fought it tooth and tongue. And and we were wrong. But there were a lot of people wrong back in the nineties about about this subject. And, you know, I I tell my friends in the environmental community, they never made it easy for us to be with them, and they we never made it easy for them to to be with us.

Jon Doggett: 05:10

And we did not find ways to work through that. And so as time's gone on and looking at how the climate has changed in this country, My wife and I have owned a house down here in Tallahassee for the last nine years. Seeing what goes on down here, what goes on in Montana, what goes on around the world, it's very apparent that the climate is changing. And, you know, back in the in the nineties, farmers thought climate was changing, at a at a percentage much less than the, general population. Now farmers and ranchers believe that there's climate change at a percentage much greater than the general, population.

Jon Doggett: 05:54

We missed some opportunities since the the early and late nineties. We've missed a lot of opportunities. We've had twenty years of talking at one another, yelling at one another. And so we're we're gradually getting to a point where there's some opportunities in this space for farmers, for the environment, for those small communities that are so dependent on having farmers that make a little money, on the outside of town. Those are important things.

Jon Doggett: 06:27

And so this is, this is an opportunity for me to work with a lot of different folks to say, you know, we were we didn't approach this the right way years ago, and now we're going to take try something new. I've worked for three different ag trade associations. I've worked with farmers and ranchers all my life. They want voluntary incentive based programs that allow them to to take a little bit of a risk, to try something different, to embrace some new technologies. And you know what?

Jon Doggett: 07:03

Everybody wins when we do that. And we finally have some money through the Inflation Reduction Act, passed a couple years ago by the Congress, and we're gonna have some money now to transform US Agriculture. This isn't money to deal with low prices and high input costs, and we do need to deal with that. That's really, really important. We need to have a strong title one in the next farm bill, because people are hurting.

Jon Doggett: 07:34

But this other money, that's long term money. That's a long term investment. It's five years, with $3,000,000,000. Think of the things that we can do with that money, that partnership between the landowner and the operator and the and the American taxpayer who wants to work with us. And I think we have some great opportunities, not only to have some new ag agronomic practices, but to open up new markets, new opportunities to to put some more stability in that farming operation and put some more stability into the the local community that supports that farm.

Jon Doggett: 08:16

We have some wonderful opportunities, but it's sure taken us a long time to get there.

Todd Gleason: 08:20

There is a hill to climb, a capital hill to climb here, where that IRA money looks like it might need or want to be used in the way you just told us that probably you would prefer it not be used. You'd you, I'm guessing, want to continue to use it as the investment side for the long term rather than to offset short term issues within the farm economy as prices have come down and farmers are trying to catch up on the input side and being buried by some of those capital investments. Can you keep Capitol Hill on track to separate those funds?

Jon Doggett: 09:08

You know, I being in Washington for thirty five years, I I found over time, I I I made prognostications at great peril. And certainly in the current political situation, I I, you know, I can't forecast that. I I I don't know. I would hope that we could, and I think, had this program started two years earlier than it did, because we're just seeing the first tranche of money come in the last year or so. Had we had two years more experience in that program by now, I think we would have more to show folks to say, here's what that money is doing.

Jon Doggett: 09:49

Here's the investments that are being made. Here's the return. Here is what is happening. It isn't all about the environment. I know that in certain quarters, climate change is still, a a bad phrase, but this is part of it.

Jon Doggett: 10:04

But the other part of it is improving soil health, improving agronomic practices, getting yields up with fewer inputs, and having some profit, having some new markets. And those are, you know, if if you cast this as, they're throwing money at farmers again. We we we need to take that and redirect that to title one or something else or put that down for savings. You know, I think we're gonna miss an opportunity. Right now, we have all of this money in incentive based voluntary programs.

Jon Doggett: 10:40

If we throw that money away, we could have another administration come along that wants to do the same thing, but they're not going to do it with incentives, they're going to do it with regulations. Let's let the American taxpayer catch agriculture doing great things for not only agriculture, but for the country and for the world. And we have an opportunity here if we use this money wisely and and and start that transformation. Agriculture is transforming all the time. It's amazing the the innovation, that it goes on in on farms and ranches around this country.

Jon Doggett: 11:15

We can accelerate that and greatly benefit from it.

Todd Gleason: 11:18

Can you reach back through, your history and and tell me what it may be that you learned during, the transition period to prior to the build out of ethanol, trying to build the coalitions that created the RFS across environmental and farm groups, which, as you have already told us, oftentimes made it very difficult for themselves to work with each other. What what did you learn there that can be applied today for the collaborative efforts of, farm groups and environmental groups and others that would be interested in these conservation practices?

Jon Doggett: 12:03

I remember one of my early mentors saying, When you go to Capitol Hill, you're not there to solve your problem. Nobody cares about your problem. Help somebody else solve their problem. And if it helps you, all the better. We have to build coalitions, and we've been good at building coalitions from time to time.

Jon Doggett: 12:23

Some of those coalitions have lasted, and and gone through some tough times and and come, out out of okay. You know, the the the relationships that we have built with the environmental community, the conservation community, and I'm not talking about the wild crazy environmental community. I'm talking about the more mainstream folks that do understand that if you want conservation on a on on farm grounds, you gotta work with a farmer. And, there there have been some really good coalitions, partnerships through the years, and they get better some years and not so good the next year. We've also built some really good coalitions with the hunger community and remembering some of those early days with GMO technology.

Jon Doggett: 13:13

And because we had a relationship with some of the hunger groups, they called me and said, can you come talk to our folks about GMO technology? I had 70 people in a room talking about GMO technology and had nearly unanimous acceptance after I got done explaining things for fifteen minutes. When we had fuel versus food back in 2012. Again, the hunger community said, what's going on? And we went and explained to them what was going on and and how ethanol was not taking food from people.

Jon Doggett: 13:52

That was a re that's a that's a a relationship that benefited agriculture tremendously because those folks were on our side. We worked with the petroleum industry in the first, energy bill back in the early two thousands, And, it will along with the coal industry and the nuclear folks and everybody else in the energy space. The next, energy bill we did, we worked with the environmental community and made even more gains. So, you know, those those relationships are important. You have to have the relationship before you can have the partnership.

Jon Doggett: 14:25

And, when you walk into a room with a partner, that is really, really powerful. I I locks and dams. I tell you what, I gotta give a lot of credit to the Illinois corn growers. They have done a great job working on locks and dams with the carpenters union. I remember going in with some carpenters and some farmers into congressional offices, and they they wondered what was going on.

Jon Doggett: 14:51

Those are good things that happen. So we have to have those those relationships, those partnerships, and, you have to help the other person solve their problem as well. We need to remember that the top 10 corn growing states in this country, and that includes Illinois, which has a large congressional delegation. Those top 10 states have 94 House members in the House of Representatives, a House that has 435 members. I'm not good at math, but 218 is 50% plus one in the House of Representatives.

Jon Doggett: 15:30

If you only have 94 votes, you're gonna have to figure out how you're gonna get more to go ahead and help out the corn industry. So you have to have partnerships, and you have to have it with with the SNAP recipients, and you have to have it with the environmental community, Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, and, and even working with the grain industry.

Todd Gleason: 15:50

So how do you build those partnerships for conservation? And and who should farmers look to? Which organizations do they need to be thinking about? And what is it that those organizations need or want? And do you have to ask them?

Todd Gleason: 16:06

How do you figure all of that out?

Jon Doggett: 16:09

Well, I, you know, I think it's it's, do you have a relationship with your local local rod and gun club? That's where a lot of this conservation starts. It starts it doesn't start with, some lobbyist in an environmental organization inside the Capitol Beltway. It oftentimes starts with, you know, the principal at the local grade school who likes to hunt and fish and who, you know, they have a a rod and gun club and then, you got folks up and down Main Street that belong to that, and they're interested in hunting and fishing, and and that means they're interested in conservation and work with local landowners. That's where a lot of this stuff starts.

Jon Doggett: 16:52

I think we make it too complicated by making it, you know, the the local relationships always in the end is the that's the best place to start that that that conversation and that movement, because that's where that's where the real political power in this country still still lies.

Todd Gleason: 17:14

Now related to the IRA funding, what when farmers are out and they're actually talking to their peers in their community, should they be discussing with them as it's related to conservation funding, climate smart agriculture, the things that might be worthwhile to have on the farm or to be regulated into one of the two? Well,

Jon Doggett: 17:41

you know, we we want incentive based voluntary programs, and, and let's make them work. And, some of these programs are really working well. We haven't had enough time to really be able to point to, the things I think we'll be able to point to in another, twelve, eighteen months, but we're making some progress. And, you know, somebody somebody asked me, a couple months ago, how do farmers learn about new methods and new technologies? And I said, it's over the fence.

Jon Doggett: 18:19

You're driving down the road at what are what are the Joneses doing there? They're doing something different. Man, that that stand of corn looks really good, but they're doing something different. What are they doing? Maybe I wanna try that as well.

Jon Doggett: 18:32

I think sometimes those are the best ways that technology gets exposed to other farmers.

Todd Gleason: 18:37

How can farmers ensure their voices are heard when shaping policy in DC, especially for this upcoming farm bill? It is on a very tight tight timeline now again.

Jon Doggett: 18:51

What I what I told farmers over the years was, almost all of us have raised kids. All of us had this discussion with kids. You need to figure out what it is that you need versus what it is that you want. And I've seen farm groups in Washington go on with a long list of things that they wanted. They didn't prioritize.

Jon Doggett: 19:16

They didn't designate what it was that they absolutely needed. And so they left got left by the wayside. Work within your ag organizations. Help develop that policy. But, again, what is it that you need versus what you want?

Jon Doggett: 19:32

What is politically doable? And that's where I think we we really need, and I'm not at all biased. That's where you've gotta count on your Washington folks, your lobbyist in Washington, DC, many of whom come from farms and ranches, about what's politically possible. Again, we don't have the numbers. So if we're going in to talk about a policy that agriculture needs, we also need to very be very vocal, very clear, and very articulate about what that policy will do for others, not just farmers, but rural communities and the greater good of this of this country.

Jon Doggett: 20:12

And when we do that, then we get noticed and solve somebody else's problems, and bring votes to the party. If you can bring a vote, you're probably likely to have a seat at the table.

Todd Gleason: 20:26

In this case, why is it that American agriculture needs the conservation policies?

Jon Doggett: 20:31

Well, you we are going to have conservation on farms and ranches no matter what the federal government does because farmers and ranchers will do the right thing. But we can get them to do more of that if there's some financial assistance, if there is some risk mitigation in in that, and if we can go ahead and improve soil health or we can, you know, we can open another market. Conservation programs, particularly the ones outlined in the, Inflation Reduction Act, they are there to create opportunities. This isn't government writing a check. This is these are farmers and ranchers and landowners saying, I'm gonna try this.

Jon Doggett: 21:18

We're gonna work this out. We're gonna have a partnership, and everybody's gonna benefit from this. This is a this is an everybody benefits kind of a thing, and we have this great potential to, one more time, spotlight the great things that agriculture is doing with a fairly small investment on the part of the taxpayer.

Todd Gleason: 21:40

In the IRA, how much funding is there for conservation?

Jon Doggett: 21:43

We're looking at at $3,000,000,000 over five years. Seems like a lot of money, but, it's it seems like a lot of money. It is a lot of money, but it is money it it we have a short window here to access that program. We better do it. And, we have a lot of people who are starting in into that those programs.

Jon Doggett: 22:09

Hopefully, they will continue to be funded. But, we need this this is this is money that is a long term investment. And, certainly, we need more money in title one. We need more money in other aspects of the of the farm bill. But let's not rob Peter to pay Paul because sooner or later, Peter is gonna go ahead and get his way.

Jon Doggett: 22:35

And, again, let's not miss an a golden opportunity for a well funded incentive based voluntary program that could keep us from having to deal with a regulatory overload in years to come.

Todd Gleason: 22:49

Thank you very much, John.

Jon Doggett: 22:50

Thank you.

Todd Gleason: 22:51

John Doggett is the principal at Camas Creek Consulting and past CEO at the National Corn Growers Association. You've been listening to the closing market report from Illinois Public Media online at willag.0rg, wil ag Org. I'm Illinois Extension's Todd Gleeson.