Creepy Carp and Sea Lamprey, Aquatic invasives in Lake Michigan (the Halloween episode)

Erin Garrett: 00:05

Welcome to another episode of Spotlight on Natural Resources where we shine some light on what's going on in your environment. I'm your host, Erin Garrett.

Abigail Garofalo: 00:14

And I'm your cohost, Abigail Garfalo.

Erin Garrett: 00:16

And today we are here with Katie O'Reilly, and she is an aquatic invasive species specialist with Illinois Indiana Sea Grant. And she's here to chat with us all about aquatic invasive species. So welcome, Katie. How are you doing today?

Katie O'Reilly: 00:31

I'm doing great. Thank you so much, Erin and Abigail, for having me on this month's podcast. I'm excited to talk about all things spooky and scary with aquatic invasive species.

Abigail Garofalo: 00:41

I'm gonna say I hope this episode comes out by Halloween. It'll be very timely for everybody. So.

Erin Garrett: 00:47

Definitely. Definitely. Well, let's get right into it. When we talk about aquatic invasive species, which ones are we most concerned about when we look at Illinois and the Great Lakes?

Katie O'Reilly: 00:58

Yeah. So if you live in Illinois or the Great Lakes area, you've probably heard a lot about those invasive carp. You know, sometimes they're called Asian carp, but it's actually a couple of different species that we're concerned about. And we're really concerned about them because they've gotten established in the Illinois River, and the Illinois River is connected to Lake Michigan via a bunch of canals in the Chicago area. And the reason we're worried about these guys is that they are just, you know, hungry hungry hippos when it comes to consuming aquatic resources.

Katie O'Reilly: 01:35

And so they really outcompete some of our native fish species. They take away food that's helped support baby fish as well as freshwater mussels that we have. And the concern is, you know, we've seen the damage they've done in the Illinois River and the Mississippi River, and we don't want those same impacts to happen in the Great Lakes. That's not to say carp are the only peep or the only invasive species we're concerned about. There's a lot of species that have gotten press about, you know, a big threat to the Great Lakes, and unfortunately, the Great Lakes have had this long history of invasive species.

Katie O'Reilly: 02:12

So we are concerned not only about the carp getting into the lakes, but all all of these species that have already gotten here and if we've seen their impacts, things like our zebra and quagga mussels, sea lamprey, which are kind of these charismatic invasive species that a lot of people have heard of, to lesser known species such as the red bloody shrimp or Eurasian watermilfoil, things that are not quite as well known by by most folks.

Abigail Garofalo: 02:39

So I have a couple of questions first. One, I wanna know, so there are currently none of the invasive carp in the Great Lakes. So that we know of, I guess.

Katie O'Reilly: 02:48

Well, there's no no invasive carp in Lake Michigan. There one of the invasive carp, the grass carp, has actually been found to be established in Lake Erie. Those guys are they damage the environment because they eat a lot of aquatic vegetation or plants. And so the concern there is that they're just gonna take away a lot of habitat for fish, but they are present in Lake Erie, unfortunately.

Abigail Garofalo: 03:16

Ah, Lake Erie.

Katie O'Reilly: 03:17

Lake Erie. Always always Lake Erie. It's always you.

Abigail Garofalo: 03:20

Lake Erie. Oh, that's funny. And you mentioned some pretty spooky names, which I really love, that red blooded shrimp. I don't know if anyone's ever seen a picture of a a lamp are we talking about the lampreys?

Katie O'Reilly: 03:32

The sea lampreys. Yeah.

Abigail Garofalo: 03:33

The sea lampreys? But, man, those things are the stuff of nightmares. Yeah. I I wanna know more. Tell me, you know, so how are they getting into, you know, these new places? How are they getting established in our in our Great Lakes and in our even in our rivers?

Katie O'Reilly: 03:50

Right. So that's a really good question because, know, we think about invasive species as like, oh, there's this harmful thing that's causing damage to our environment. But we have to also remember the species didn't necessarily just appear one day itself. Humans are the main pathway of introducing new species to an area, and that can really take a lot of different shapes and forms. It can be you know, maybe it's a species we like having as a pet or in our gardens. And, for example, in, like, the case of pets, they can get released or escape. Things in your garden can get outside the confines of your your garden and and get into natural areas.

Katie O'Reilly: 04:30

They can also species can also sometimes be hitchhikers or stowaways. So in a lot of cases, you know, if you take your boat out to the lake and you might have some plants attached to your propeller or something, that material and those species can actually go with your boat to the next water body you would go to. In the Great Lakes, we also have that kind of boat problem on a larger scale in terms of our cargo ships. Sometimes the ballast water that they take up into their cargo holds to help regulate their buoyancy can also be a way that species basically get sucked up at one port and transported to another port even across the ocean. There's lots of different pathways they can get established and get to new places, but kind of the common denominator at that all is that it's human assisted in in some way or form, whether we intentionally want to bring them someplace or unintentionally give them access to a place.

Erin Garrett: 05:30

Definitely. I think a lot of the times we don't think about the unintended consequences of our actions until it's too late. Right? So we don't realize that things are getting moved. And then in hindsight, we're like, well, that seems obvious that it could get taken along with the water, right, in the ship and then dumped somewhere else. Or with plants too, you know, things we put in our gardens, we say, hey. Well, it's just in my garden. It's not gonna move anywhere, but there's a lot of wildlife and things that come in and move things around that we don't usually, you know, think about happening. And so there are a lot of ways that those can get out. Right?

Abigail Garofalo: 06:03

Well and aquatic pets, like, we think that, oh, we're you know, we can't take care of it anymore. The oh, like, the the lake will be so nice for it and all of that. And, you know, I think I wrote an article about this. Like, I always say, like, whether it survives or it it dies, like, both are kind of bad, honestly. Because if it's thriving and surviving, it's it's probably not doing the best for that environment. And, you know, we we think that this one animal, like, we're gonna help this one animal, but we're actually to the detriment of a lot of other not just animals, but other organisms in that ecosystem. So.

Katie O'Reilly: 06:37

Exactly. That's a a really good point. Not only, you know it's a bad outcome in either case. It's like, you know, potentially your pet would suffer in a natural environment because it's not used to that or it doesn't suffer and it, in fact, the environment suffers from the impacts of that.

Erin Garrett: 06:54

So on that note, we're talking about all the bad things that invasive species do. Are they always a bad thing? Is there any positive impact that we can get out? Not that we necessarily wanna promote the spread of these invasives, but are we seeing especially with the aquatics, are we ever seeing any positive impacts that come out of their presence here?

Katie O'Reilly: 07:14

Yeah. So that's a really good point, Erin. You know, obviously, we don't wanna encourage, like, the introduction of further species or the spread of species. And this is a classic trait of ecologists like myself. We try and look at the whole picture, and sometimes it's not a clear black and white, like, is always bad or negative. This is always good or positive. And I think one of the biggest cases we've seen of that in the Great Lakes with invasive species is a fish called the round goby, which appeared back in about the nineteen nineties. It was one of those stowaways on a cargo ship from kind of Eurasia area. And it's caused a lot of harm in that it it's just an aggressive little guy. Despite their small size, they're they're kind of the bullies of the benthos or the the bottom and they absolutely

Abigail Garofalo: 08:05

Small but mighty is what I'm hearing.

Katie O'Reilly: 08:07

Exactly. They are a hundred percent small but mighty. They definitely punch above their weight in terms of aggressiveness, and that ability has given them really a competitive advantage over our native species. So they've had this negative impact of out competing native fish, but we've noticed in the thirty ish years since they've become established, they've also become an important prey source for a lot of organisms. So things like smallmouth bass that a lot of people enjoy catching when they go out fishing have really turned to round goby as a a food source.

Katie O'Reilly: 08:44

And kind of most notably, there was a threatened species of snake, the Lake Erie water snake. Its numbers were pretty low and after the round goby became established, it actually provided such an abundant prey source for the snake species that they were able to get off the threatened list. Like, it helped their population numbers increase. Again, we don't wanna necessarily say that invasive species are a good thing. They're the whole, you know, definition of an invasive species is something that causes harm, but sometimes there can be a mixed bag almost of impacts whether we're thinking and that's even to think, you know, not only their ecological impacts, but, like, what are their economic impacts? Like, maybe something that is economically beneficial is like, yay. Humans like this, but it may have some ecological impacts that, as Erin mentioned, may not always be apparent at first glance. So it's nuanced, that's what makes it tough to say it. Like, it's always bad, but we obviously want to maintain a healthy ecosystem. And oftentimes, invasives make that really challenging.

Abigail Garofalo: 09:58

Yeah. I love that you talk about the nuance. I feel like Erin and I are are land folks. So we're we often talk about, you know, the ecology of the of the the terrestrial parts of the landscape, and it's really cool to see that aquatic side of the nuance of that. You know, we Erin and I, I'm sure, have heard stories of, like, you know, we can't just clear cut all the invasive, you know, honeysuckle or something from a space because then we're leaving birds really vulnerable or or other aspects of it. So we have to kinda think about and also to resource wise. Right? Like, it doesn't make sense to do that resource wise as well. We don't have the the money or the the capacity, and it's interesting to think that those kinds of trade offs and nuances exist in the in the and, of course, they do in the aquatic space, but we just don't get to talk about it very often. So it's really, really cool that we get to hear that side of it.

Katie O'Reilly: 10:46

Right. And I think that's a perfect way of phrasing it, Abigail, is it it's all about trade offs, about what is what are we, you know, valuing in our ecosystem, and how do we protect an ecosystem in line with what the things that are important to us.

Abigail Garofalo: 11:04

So we were talking about impacts and, you know, we're talking about these trade offs, but let's talk about those impacts of those invasive species. You know, once they're established, how do we manage for that, and is it possible to get rid of them completely?

Katie O'Reilly: 11:16

Yeah. So this is where some of the terminology gets a little fuzzy. When we say established, what we're talking about with invasive species is that they've gotten to a new location and that they're able to reproduce. So if you just have like a single carp in the lake, that's not considered established. It's someone who got lost in the Chicago River. But established means they're reproducing, they're potentially spreading to a further location. And once a species has become established, it's really, really tough to turn back that clock and to eradicate them completely.

Katie O'Reilly: 11:57

We've seen that in the Great Lakes with things like the sea lamprey which became established in the twentieth century. There's been this really honestly amazing effort between The US and Canada to control them. So the way you control sea lamprey in the Great Lakes is applying this what's called a lampricide or it's similar to, like, a pesticide or herbicide, a chemical to the streams where they reproduce. And this lampricide application kills them in their juvenile stage. It's super effective. They because it's both countries, they kind of cover the entire Great Lakes Basin. It's obviously very expensive to do that both in terms of human power and the resources. And they've been doing this now for fifty years, and we still haven't gotten rid of the lamprey.

Katie O'Reilly: 12:49

In fact, back during the pandemic, when we weren't able to as easily treat a lot of streams, a lot of streams went untreated, and we've seen a little increase in the sea lamprey population as a result of that here a couple years down the line. So all that to say that even with, like, a billion dollar investment over fifty years of treatment, we've really only been able to, you know, knock down their numbers. We haven't been able to completely get rid of them. And that's like a best case scenario where we have, like, a really clear chemical control. We have two countries working together to cover a wide swath of land.

Abigail Garofalo: 13:29

It's like best case scenario for all kinds stuff like this.

Katie O'Reilly: 13:32

Exactly.

Abigail Garofalo: 13:33

Yeah.

Katie O'Reilly: 13:34

Exactly. And, I mean, that's it's similar both in the terrestrial and the aquatic world. It's really tough once you let the cat out of the bag in terms of a non native species. And so a lot of the work that we try and do, especially with Illinois Indiana Sea Grant, is preventing those species from getting established in the first place because the old phrase ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure is very true. If we can cut them off before they get to that stage where they're reproducing and building up a population, it's a lot easier. And it's it's actually, in some cases, feasible to eradicate a small population rather than a large one that's just not feasible, whether it's in terms of resources or we just don't have the tools to manage them.

Erin Garrett: 14:19

For those in more of the invasive species realm, that's kind of where we get the phrase early detection, rapid response is kind of the approach that we have, right, that we wanna be on the lookout. When we see something right away, we detect it early, and then we rapidly respond, right, and try to get rid of that small population before it establishes and grows. You know, that's why we when we've got invasives in neighboring states, right, it just happens that that's usually the boundary that we use. We're, like, on the lookout for those. And when they hit Illinois, we're, like, immediately alert, go. Everyone needs to know where it's at and to be aware so that we can try to, right, keep it from establishing and spreading. And that really is kind of the the tool that we have is is the prevention, and then if it is here to really be aware and get it right before it, you know, is able to establish.

Abigail Garofalo: 15:10

Well, and for the aquatic realm, it's really difficult because with a lot of herbicides and pesticides, what we want is them to not last very long once they hit the water. Right? We want them to degrade really quickly for terrestrial environment. Aquatic environments, that's we need like, we can't have them degrade as soon as they hit the water. Otherwise, they're not doing anything. And so that's it's a really interesting conundrum because you're like, the water just plays this whole other piece to it that makes it even more difficult to manage for.

Katie O'Reilly: 15:37

Absolutely. And then you add that to the the other thing that, you know, you've got water bodies that are connected both permanently, so, you know, you have, like, streams that go between places, but you may also have these kind of shorter term events, things like flooding. So even if you have like a pond that you think is totally cut off and so you're just putting a carp in there, that's actually how the invasive carp made it up to Illinois was they were in fish ponds in Arkansas that were separated from the Mississippi River, but during kind of the seasonal flooding events, that was able to get them into the river where then they were sort of on a superhighway to to to spread. So even when we think we might have an isolated population, water flows where it wants to flow, and that can also make controlling things challenging too. In addition to the fact that it's just tough to have chemicals that work in the the aquatic realm that aren't necessarily going to just indiscriminately kill a bunch of fish or plants.

Abigail Garofalo: 16:42

Now I know we wanna talk about prevention, but I actually feel like I need to back up a little bit, and I need to know more about the lamprey. I need to understand this this animal more. I need to I just just because I just I I need to. Is it a fish? Is it an eel? Like, what is it? How does it work? What is the lore of the lamprey? Tell me more.

Katie O'Reilly: 17:01

Oh my gosh. Okay. Let's let's let's start back at the beginning because sea lamprey are just the coolest, and I could go on for hours. So, hopefully, I will will not ramble too much with this because I just love lamprey. So the sea lamprey is just one species of lamprey. There's about 40 worldwide. We actually have four native species of lamprey in the Great Lakes. The difference between them and the sea lamprey is our native lampreys are a lot tinier, but the sea lamprey is just wild. It is a fish. It is not your typical fish, obviously, if you ever see an image of them. But for those who don't have pictures of lamprey up on their walls that they can admire, Don't know why you wouldn't

Abigail Garofalo: 17:44

Is that what you're still alluding to? We need to know. Inquiring minds.

Katie O'Reilly: 17:47

I I I neither confirm nor deny the the lamprey love. But so this is an animal that, like you said, kind of looks like an eel. It's got a snake like body, and it doesn't have what we think of as jaws. It has this sort of suction cup mouth, circular suction cup mouth that has these multiple rows of teeth, and their teeth are actually made of the same material our fingernails are. So it is absolutely horrifying.

Abigail Garofalo: 18:15

It's the most horrifying description you could possibly provide.

Katie O'Reilly: 18:19

Oh, just wait. Just wait. It gets better. And so they use those horrifying teeth and that suction cup mouth to attach to a host because they're a parasite and their host of choice is in the Great Lakes at least are some of our fish species, so things like our lake trout. And what they then do upon attaching to their host is basically, you know, I I think of it as sort of a fishy capri sun. They suck up some of their blood liquid materials And

Abigail Garofalo: 18:57

Erin and I's face right now. I know this is an audio recording.

Katie O'Reilly: 19:00

I wish I wish there were faces.

Abigail Garofalo: 19:01

Horrified. Continue with the Capri Sun analogy, please.

Katie O'Reilly: 19:07

The sea lamprey has a compound in its sort of arsenal that helps the blood from clotting so it, you know, can keep feeding on its its host, which is even better if you think about it.

Abigail Garofalo: 19:19

Depending on who you are. If you're the fish, that doesn't sound better.

Katie O'Reilly: 19:23

I was gonna say, some days you're the fish, some days you're the sea lamprey. Obviously, the problem with that is the sea lamprey doesn't necessarily kill its fish host. It it may depending on how long it's attached, if the fish is already in, like, a stressed condition. And in its native range, the sea lamprey is native to, like, the coast of North America. In its native range, fish and marine mammals have, adapted to live with the sea lamprey. So it's not as bad. But the fish in the Great Lakes did not adapt for the sea lamprey. The sea lamprey is way bigger than our native species, so it can just do a lot more damage.

Abigail Garofalo: 20:06

Hold on. I don't know if I connected this. So you're telling me this species can also survive in marine and freshwater environments?

Katie O'Reilly: 20:14

Absolutely. Yeah. So it

Abigail Garofalo: 20:15

This thing is amazing slash horrible. Like, I just don't know.

Katie O'Reilly: 20:19

It's almost like, you know, at a certain point, you're just like, what can't it do?

Abigail Garofalo: 20:23

What can't it do?

Katie O'Reilly: 20:25

Well and so that's actually you were asking where do they come from? Do we know how they reproduce? In the native range, they live as adults in the ocean, but they come back into freshwater streams and rivers when it's time to reproduce. And so they lay their eggs in freshwater and the babies actually hatch and at that time, they are not parasitic. So they don't have mouths even.

Katie O'Reilly: 20:53

They kind of they filter feed out of the water. So they're not those like scary, you know, rows of teeth that the adults have.

Abigail Garofalo: 21:03

The babies never are.

Katie O'Reilly: 21:05

Baby, they it's always they they'll get you. It's the cuteness. Though I don't really know if anyone would be describing juvenile lampreys as cute. They kinda look like little worms and they hatch in the streams, kinda float downstream a little bit, and then they burrow themselves at the bottoms of the streams and basically hang out there for up to seven years. So a sea lamprey will spend most of its life actually as a baby. And during that time, that little baby worm just sits with its head out of the sediment and collects various things that float on by. Once it has matured enough, it will metamorphize into an adult which then has this, you know, scary mouth everything. And in the native range, that's when they go back out to the ocean to do their their feeding. We have the same general cycle in the Great Lakes, only instead of the ocean, the adults spend their life in the lakes themselves, but then come back into those tributaries to spawn.

Abigail Garofalo: 22:12

I don't know what to do with that information in my life, but I have it now, and I have to live with it.

Katie O'Reilly: 22:18

And you have to live with that image of, you know, a a capri sun on lake trout.

Abigail Garofalo: 22:22

With the with the nail like teeth.

Katie O'Reilly: 22:25

With the nail like teeth. Exactly.

Abigail Garofalo: 22:26

It's, like, so funny.

Katie O'Reilly: 22:28

I mean, I could leave you with the final fact that in Europe, the sea lamprey is considered a delicacy that people eat. Actually, back when Queen Elizabeth was having her jubilee however many years ago, there was an effort that people from the Great Lakes were like, well, why don't we send lamprey to England because they really like lamprey, they make pies out of it, you know, this would be a nice way to celebrate the queen from from the Great Lakes. So if you'd like lamprey pie, that is, you know, I guess maybe it's it's not the snack that smiles back or, know, you bite the snack, whatever. There's gotta be some some phrase for it.

Abigail Garofalo: 23:08

Don't know where that was going.

Katie O'Reilly: 23:10

I don't know where that was going either. I that would probably yeah.

Abigail Garofalo: 23:13

The snack that's mild snack lamprey. Oh, so good. Amazing. Amazing. And then I had one more question is what's the deal with, like, the rebranding of the carp? I feel like people inquiring minds might want to know what is it called nowadays.

Katie O'Reilly: 23:36

Yeah. That is a great question. So last year, Illinois DNR rolled out this brand new revamp of carp in order to make it more appetizing. And so the name that has been proposed is copi, short for copious, in reference to the sheer abundance of carp in Illinois. And the idea was that in other fish species, this has been successful, like, when they get rebrands. So one example is the orange roughy, if you ever seen that on, like, a a menu. That was an organism that's also known as the slime head, which sounds significantly less delicious.

Abigail Garofalo: 24:21

Ain't no one ordering that at a restaurant.

Erin Garrett: 24:23

Nope. Nope.

Katie O'Reilly: 24:25

00% of people are ordering.

Abigail Garofalo: 24:26

I'll take the orange roughy. No. No. I'll take the slime head.

Katie O'Reilly: 24:32

Exactly. I mean, so you're like, you know, I see slime head on the menu. There is no way I'm ordering that. So the the same principle was applied because, you know, there's sort of these negative associations with carp. They're bottom feeders. And a lot of that comes from the common carp, which is not it's it's different than the new invasive carp we have. The common carp we've had for a couple hundred years. A lot of people just are like, okay. We we live with the common carp even though it is a non native as well. Where copi or the invasive carp that we have are different is that they are filter feeders, so they are generally eating a lot of plankton. These are things like big head and silver carp. And because of that, they actually don't have kind of that muddy taste of a common carp. So the idea was to sort of separate it in people's minds. Like, this isn't the carp that you're thinking of. This is a firm white fleshed fish that honestly tastes a lot like tilapia that please please buy this so we can sell, you know, an invasive species. We have this resource. Fishermen are collecting carp in the rivers and not having a market for it. So this was an effort to try and increase the the market for eating invasive carp. You know, if you can't eat them, beat them is the general idea.

Abigail Garofalo: 25:58

Yeah. I think that's a really cool element that, like, we forget about that it's not just about, like, this idea of, like, removing it with herbicides or pesticides or lamprocides or whatever and and all these other things, but also, like, changing the culture of how we like, let's make it a commodity. Let's make it a thing. And I think that human element and human dimensions element of of land management and is is really, really interesting and something that a lot of people probably like, oh, it's all the same whether whatever we call it or not. Right? But it it that really makes a difference. How we we talk about the animal and the culture around that animal really really changes things. So

Katie O'Reilly: 26:38

Yeah. Exactly.

Abigail Garofalo: 26:39

We don't want to make it too likable. Right? Because then we don't wanna create like a market for like farming it. But

Katie O'Reilly: 26:47

No. I mean, that's a super valid concern because, you know, we there are people who are like encouraging consumption is not necessarily a good thing because if it becomes too valuable or too desired, are you just then furthering the spread and, like, encouraging additional growth of this invasive species? So it is definitely kind of going back to that idea of trade offs we were talking about earlier, it's like, does the removal of them balance the risk of creating too much of a market?

Erin Garrett: 27:20

I know just the unfortunate fact that it has the same the carp name is with the bottom feeder. A lot of people are like, nope. Never gonna try it, but and don't wanna learn more about it or whatever. So that rebranding, I know there's a there's a restaurant by me at a local farm to table, and they do. They didn't call it copi. It was before that, but they served carp, and they called it something else too just to try to get over that, I guess, like, stigma of that name and what it means and what that what that fish typically feeds on. But, yeah, I think there's definitely value to exploring those options, right, for other ways to get rid of it. And at this rate, there's so much carp. I feel like at least for a while, we're gonna be okay. And I don't see it becoming the most popular fish out there. Right? So definitely an option to explore and and and see. So everyone needs to go and try some copi after listening to this episode if you can find it.

Katie O'Reilly: 28:15

I was gonna say, I think the Illinois DNR webs they have a copi website if you Google, and it does list some shops, I think largely in the Chicagoland area, but they they might cover the whole state where there are shops that sell copi. So if you're looking for it and striking out, that might be a good place to check.

Erin Garrett: 28:31

As we wrap up today, we wanna end on a high note. Right? So we want to, just explore what can people do to help prevent new invasive species from getting into the Great Lakes.

Katie O'Reilly: 28:45

Everyone can definitely play a part in preventing invasive species. You know, whether you're an angler, you like going out, taking your boat out in the summer, whether you like having pets, you know, keeping aquariums, everyone has a role to play. And the biggest role is knowing the steps you can take to help prevent unwanted guests, you know, whether that's cleaning your boat after going out on the lake, whether it is making sure that you're not dumping any live bait at the end of a day of fishing, if you like to keep aquaria, making sure that you're not releasing any pets. There's oftentimes pet shops will offer sort of take back programs in case you know you can't keep a pet any longer. Also, you know, if you're building a garden, maybe choosing native species as alternates for non native species and really just, you know, trying to stay aware of of, you know, your environment.

Katie O'Reilly: 29:47

And as we kinda talked a little bit about earlier in the show, early detection is such an important part of invasive species management. And, honestly, having more people out there with eyes where you're like, this is a new organism is really helpful just to help us as scientists understanding and get a heads up when something's out there. So even using things like iNaturalist, that's been a unexpected way that we've been able to find new places that invasive species are are introduced. So there's lots of different ways you can help out, but the biggest thing I would just say is, you know, depending on why you love the environment, how you interact with the environment, there's definitely a way you can can help us in in the fight against invasive species.

Erin Garrett: 30:31

Definitely. I know, especially with iNaturalist, you mentioned, there's a huge community of people that can just take a picture of something and report it on their phone, and then other people can be like, yep. I agree. That's what the species is or no. I think it's this. And it really helps build that map out. I know I was just doing that today, actually, reporting a invasive grass that I found, and it hadn't been reported in that county before. And it's only been found in three other counties in Illinois. So definitely taking the time because me, I'm like, oh, someone's probably already done it already, and they know it's there. Right? And they don't. So making sure to add those observations to the map, whatever, you know, app you use to report those observations is definitely really helpful for, you know, scientists or researchers who can't be everywhere all at once, right, to kinda see. And a lot of the times we're working with, like, historic maps that might not be updated or accurate in the first place when they were created. So definitely having people to just report what they see, you know, whether it's native or nonnative or whether you see it all the time or it looks new is definitely super important.

Abigail Garofalo: 31:36

If you're looking to also get involved in, like, more community science work too, like so iNaturalist is, like, great for, like you know, I don't have a ton of time. Like, I just love nature walks or I love going out or I love and I wanna report what I see. There's a couple other programs that, like, you can be a little more involved in and take training if you want to too. So I know we love the RiverWatch program. And so if you wanna look more into that, you're welcome to. You kinda get, like, assigned a stream, and you get to help monitor not just the the biotic elements, but the abiotic elements and and kind of watch for water quality, and and that's definitely a way to see, like, the species possible reporting of invasives too. So I love the RiverWatch program.

Erin Garrett: 32:13

Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Katie, for sharing your knowledge on aquatic invasives with us today. And your passion for for lamprey.

Katie O'Reilly: 32:23

Yeah. And leaving you with some nightmares too, perhaps.

Erin Garrett: 32:27

I love it. I love the discussion on lamprey. So as we wrap up today, it's time for our special spotlight. So this is the point of the show where we shine a spotlight on something cool that we saw in nature this month. So, Abigail, I'm gonna pick on you, and you can go first.

Abigail Garofalo: 32:46

Yeah. So I currently do a program called Conservation at Home, and I've been a part of it for four years. And this last year, I finally gotten the chance to, like, add more natives to my yard and all these things, and everything looks really beautiful, and I just got certified last week. So my yard now has this gorgeous sign in it that says Conservation at Home, and it can pass, like so maybe that's what I saw cool in nature with this really awesome sign that I earned. And and so that and then the other thing I wanted to add too is I've been doing a lot of, like, seed collecting of my own, like, landscape seeds, and then I'm, like, being part of the community of, like, I have butterfly weed. What do you have? I got bundle flower. Let me share. And so just, like, joining that community has been really cool. And, also, I feel like I'm learning so much about the plants in my yard more so than if I didn't collect the seed because, like, that's a whole different element of that plant is how it's reproducing and and what it needs to do that. And so so, yeah, just really, really cool science going on in my in my property right now.

Erin Garrett: 33:48

Awesome. Love that, Abigail. Katie, what's your special spotlight?

Katie O'Reilly: 33:54

Yeah. So I actually grew up in the Toledo area in Ohio. So I'm around Lake Lake Erie, and I came home earlier this month to visit some family and during the time saw that they were doing a release of lake sturgeon into the Maumee River which leads into Lake Erie. And so we went down and released a bunch of baby lake sturgeon into the river and they were super cute. If you don't know lake sturgeon, they look kind of prehistoric, these little dinosaurs, and they used to be really abundant in the Great Lakes but were overfished. And so this was part of a larger effort to reintroduce them to the river. But it was just fun to see a lot of people coming out to support some native species restoration. And honestly, the best part was to get the sturgeon from the buckets where they, you know, they had given them to people to release to the river. They had a little plastic slide and so you would tip your bucket onto the slide so then the baby sturgeon who's like, you know, maybe six inches long is just taking this joyride down down the plastic slide into the river, and it was perfect.

Abigail Garofalo: 35:04

I'm, like, cheering, like, every time you send it down, wee, wee.

Katie O'Reilly: 35:10

Tiny little wees, which is great because that is exactly what I was imagining as my sturgeon went down the slide. Little wee.

Abigail Garofalo: 35:16

So good. Alright, Erin. What's your special spotlight?

Erin Garrett: 35:20

A couple weeks ago, maybe a month ago. It's been a while. I can't remember time anymore. I was in the backyard watering my native plants, and I just moved a few months ago. And so I brought a bunch of native plants with me. They're all in these little pots. I haven't put them in the ground yet, and I'm amazed constantly by what I'm finding just in these pots of native plants still in, like, a barren landscape. But I was watering the other night, and I saw something large start to flutter. And there was a banded sphinx moth in my potted plant, which is about three inches across, and it had this beautiful pink underwing color. And it was super calm. It let me pick it up, hang out, take some selfies with it, of course, and some pictures. But it was super cool because I've never seen I've never seen the caterpillar. Haven't seen the caterpillar before. They can often be, like, red in color or have this awesome, like, crazy red and green stripes. So it's super cool to see that and just know my little native plants are doing something. Insect and wildlife is is coming and finding the the area, so it's just always cool. I never know what I'm gonna find when I go outside.

Abigail Garofalo: 36:32

Oh, I love that. I love that. A lot of the times we have this stuff and we're like, does it matter? Is it making a difference? And it's things like that that really feel like it is. So amazing.

Erin Garrett: 36:43

Alright. This has been another episode on the Spotlight on Natural Resources podcast. Check out next month's episode where we talk with Dr. Joy O'Keefe all about bats.