A gauntlet for Carp: invasives species in our waterways

Amy: 00:06

Welcome to another episode of the everyday environment podcast where we explore the environment we see every day. I'm your host, Amy Lefringhouse.

Abigail: 00:14

And I'm your cohost, Abigail Garofalo.

Amy: 00:17

And today, we are so happy to have Katie O'Reilly. She is an aquatic invasive species specialist with the Illinois Indiana Sea Grant. And she's gonna talk to us a little bit about aquatic invasive species, and obviously they're aquatic. Obviously, they're related to water, but that is our topic of our season this season is water. So welcome, Katie.

Amy: 00:41

We are really glad that you're here.

Katie: 00:44

Thank you so much, Amy. Super glad to be here and super glad to be talking about all things aquatic invasive species today.

Katie: 00:51

Fun times. Well, to start off, Katie, why don't you go ahead and just let our listeners know what you do in your work and, you know, what do you do on a day to day basis, and how do you spend your time working for Sea Grant?

Katie: 01:09

Yeah. So in my role with Sea Grant, I do a mix of research about aquatic invasive species as well as outreach and education, sort of bringing together all those different components to really help us do a better job talking to people. You know, the science, like any kind of, you know, biological or chemistry science, can sometimes get sort of technical and and dry. So we try and understand how people think to help them or help us create messages about invasive species that not just inform them, but help people make decisions about the types of things that they do, make decisions about what types of behaviors they can do to help eventually prevent and manage aquatic invasive species. So it's kinda nice bringing together you know, I still get to do my research as a scientist, but I really enjoy the the talking with people and understanding how to be a better communicator.

Abigail: 02:11

That's awesome. It's all the way through. What is that I'm sure we've mentioned it on the podcast before, Amy. This idea of, like, science is not done until it's communicated. So to have a person who's, you know, from the beginning to the end a little bit is really great way to ensure that, you know, that research turns into action.

Katie: 02:30

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, we can do all the science we want, you know, in the lab, in the field, but if we're not actually getting that information to the people who who need it, I feel like we're we're missing, you know, the kind of biggest step in the process to help people get to be informed to make these decisions. Yeah.

Abigail: 02:49

The why behind the research. Right?

Katie: 02:51

Absolutely.

Amy: 02:52

Real quick, Katie, just a very quick overview of what is Sea Grant. Like, talk about Illinois Indiana Sea Grant, and, you know, we know what it is, but tell our listeners just, like, a little snippet of what that program is.

Katie: 03:07

Yeah. Absolutely. Illinois Indiana Sea Grant is a partnership between universities, plural being that we're covering two states, so Purdue and University of Illinois. And it's a partnership of those universities with the federal government through the agency, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration or NOAA, which is responsible for doing a lot of, obviously, ocean stuff, but here in in our neck of the woods, they do a lot of Great Lakes focused research and outreach as well. So it it's bringing together those two kind of not disciplines, but two agencies to really maximize their ability to reach people.

Amy: 03:52

Great. Thank you for that. We like I said, we know what it is, but sometimes folks, you know, don't. So thank you for explaining that.

Abigail: 04:01

Also, I used to work for Sea Grant. At one point, I was an intern with them in the summer, and I also feel like sometimes I was like, yeah, we we do outreach, education related to water, like, it's like the out and the whole, like, pieces between because it partners with a lot of different organizations. I know we have, like or Sea Grant has some partnership with EPA, like, Illinois EPA and the Chicago metropolitan CMAP. The planning, they definitely have a partnership with the planning, Metropolitan Planning. But yeah, they partner with a lot of other and they have like secret staff in different spaces across both states, which is really, really neat and a really great way to incorporate this awesome outreach work that that needs to be done when it comes to our water. So

Katie: 04:50

Yeah. And I'll I'll say, you know, obviously I'm biased from the aquatic invasive species side of things, but Sea Grant really does work on sort of all aspects of water, from water pollution to water conservation to resiliency of communities, like in terms of flooding, to aquaculture. So, like, you name it, if it touches water, Sea Grant probably has a finger in it.

Amy: 05:13

And it's focused on the Great Lakes, but really, I mean, this podcast is statewide and, you know, I work in West Central Illinois, and a lot of the resources that Sea Grant produces, yes, they they really are focused, or you are really focused on Great Lakes, but it can apply to all of our streams and, you know, water resources that we have around the state.

Katie: 05:36

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, obviously, like, the Great Lakes are the focus because of the connection we have to NOAA, but as we all know, water isn't you know, doesn't stay in one place. We all of our systems are connected, and so really, for us to protect Lake Michigan, we do look at it from kind of the whole state, whole region point of

Abigail: 05:58

Well, you're here to talk to us a little bit about aquatic invasives. What are they? So tell us a little bit about what an aquatic invasive is and, you know, why they're a concern.

Katie: 06:10

Yeah. So aquatic invasive species are species that are not native, so they're not typically like, originally found in a certain place. They've been introduced from somewhere else, and the key distinction is, like, sometimes you can have non native species that are introduced, and they don't, you know, cause any trouble. They're perfectly fine. But the species that we consider invasive are those that do cause some harm, whether that's to the native environment around them or to the kind of human benefits that we gain from our waterways, things like recreation, transportation, clean drinking water.

Katie: 06:49

There can be distinctions between, like, what just something that's been introduced versus something that's been introduced and is causing a lot of trouble, and that's where the invasive term comes in.

Abigail: 06:58

Yeah. Like naturalized, right, versus invasive. Interesting. Is there I know in the, like, the terrestrial landscape, there's this idea of, like, hyper locality of, like, oh, this is, like, nativeness depends on, you know, are we talking about, like, eco region native to Northeastern Illinois, native to this part, like, to Illinois, Southern Illinois, things like that. Is there that kind of hyperlocality with aquatic invasives, is it a little more like state boundaries, things like that?

Katie: 07:30

You know, that's a really good question. I would say it can have more of that hyperlocality. Like, for example, in Illinois, we have species that are native to the southern part of the state, such as, like, the red swamp crayfish, but they are considered invasive up in the Chicagoland area. So even within the boundaries of, you know, our state, a species that might be fine in one place can cause some major harm if transported to another. So yeah. So there is definitely some hyperlocality even within aquatics, which obviously can swim to new places if they're given the chance.

Amy: 08:06

That's interesting. I've never really thought about that with, you know, just within our state. Oh, it's native. Yeah. It's good. You automatically put it on the good list. Right? And but can cause harm, you know, in other in other areas. That's very interesting.

Katie: 08:21

Yeah. And one thing that I think is particularly interesting about Illinois, you know, despite the sort of latitudinal gradient we cover from the South to the the North, is that we're at this intersection between the Great Lakes and the Mississippi River Basin. And that is both a benefit to our state, you know, in terms of commerce transportation, but it's also a major risk in terms of things that might be invasive in the Great Lakes making their way into the Mississippi or vice versa.

Amy: 08:49

Mhmm.

Katie: 08:50

We've seen some of those challenges come up with things like the invasive carp that are really common in the Mississippi River Basin, but we're, like, really concerned about them making their way into to Lake Michigan. So I think Illinois is really an interesting case study when you're you've got all these factors kind of combining to make invasive species science even more complicated than it it normally may be.

Amy: 09:14

Lucky us.

Katie: 09:15

Lucky us. Yeah. But it also gives us a lot of opportunities, and especially, I think it makes it so that the things that we do in Illinois are really impactful in terms of preventing invasive species.

Amy: 09:29

Mhmm. Mhmm. Well, you mentioned invasive carp. So what are some of those aquatic invasive species that you're kind of focusing in on on your studies or even communication that we're worried about here in Illinois?

Katie: 09:44

Yeah. So my team at Sea Grant kind of talks about a variety of different species, but one that you brought up or that I brought up originally is probably one of our most notorious, and that's the invasive carp, which are actually a group of four different species of fish. And our main concern with these guys is they just explode in population numbers to the point of, like, know, the Illinois River is now think biomass is, like, 70 invasive carp, which Really? Is a stat that just blows my mind.

Katie: 10:19

Oh,

Abigail: 10:19

that's wild to think about.

Katie: 10:22

And and one of those species of carp is called the silver carp, and those are the guys that you might have seen the videos of where they're, like, jumping out of boats, or jumping out of the water into boats, hitting people in the face. Mhmm. So it that becomes, like, even more of an evocative image of, like, oh, something is amiss here. Mhmm.

Katie: 10:43

But beyond the invasive carp, which are definitely a main focus, my team does a lot of work with invasive crayfish. And so crayfish, for those who aren't familiar, are little crustaceans. They look a bit like baby lobsters. And there's a lot of different species of crayfish both in Illinois and across the Great Lakes Basin, most of which are are native. But there are a couple such as the red swamp crayfish, which have, you know, either expanded their range or then been introduced somewhere else in the basin.

Katie: 11:20

And those guys are causing a lot of harm because they get bigger than our native crayfish, so they can basically bully them out of habitat and food resources, as well as they actually create sort of they dig burrows in the side of streams, and that causes erosion of the stream bank into you know, kind of in on itself. So they it's a one two punch to native species, both out competing them and then modifying the habitat around them.

Abigail: 11:49

That probably increases, like, that burrowing and that erosion probably makes a huge sediment pollution problem too. Yeah. And sedimentation, I mean,

Katie: 12:01

it's kind of interesting. Both the crayfish and the carp cause some sedimentation issues. With the grass carp, which is one of those four species of invasive carp we're dealing with, they tend to eat aquatic vegetation. And so, like, in doing that, they tear up the bottom of the pond or stream and cause a lot of sedimentation. So it's just like you can have some of these impacts that are similar between invasive species, and sometimes they even compound if you've got multiple invasive species in the same water body.

Abigail: 12:35

So we're seeing these invasives, these aquatic invasives, decrease biodiversity. Right? Like we're seeing this, like, them exploding in population. We're also seeing them destroying habitat. Right?

Abigail: 12:46

And then altering habitat all altogether, from an ecosystem level. What are some economic impacts we're seeing from these invasives?

Katie: 12:56

Yeah. So with the carp example, you know, in addition to the biodiversity loss, what we're seeing is an impact to native fish that are commercially important. Things that used to be sport fish on, say, like, Illinois River are have decreased in numbers, so that is, you know, reducing how many people might necessarily want to go out fishing for a day to to catch things. Also, I guess there is an allure to, like, having flying fish around you, but some boaters don't wanna go out if there's a risk you're gonna get hit with a, you know, 50 pound Mhmm. Carp in the face.

Katie: 13:31

They can get big. It's crazy.

Amy: 13:33

It is. I worked as an intern with the history survey, and, yeah, we would I mean, we're going we're idling through, but, I mean, you're going at, I mean, a huge, not a fast clip, but you're idling through, so you're going, we would put, we would have trash can lids, like that was our like armor

Abigail: 13:54

Shields!

Amy: 13:56

they are, and we even took the Master Naturalist group out earlier this fall on the Mississippi in Pool 20, we were in Pool 20, and they experienced the fish, and you know, we had a whole group of people and it was, I got a little nervous as the risk management person, you know, that was on the boat, like what if this does hit somebody, you know, so, and we were just kinda just slowly going through, but, yeah. If you were skiing, I mean, if you're a recreational boater and you're skiing or whatever Yeah. Anyway Yeah.

Katie: 14:36

No. I mean, that's an excellent point, Amy. I mean, just that sort of concern, quantifying, like, what that means in terms of lost recreation. Sure. You know, does that mean I don't know if anyone's done, like, a study necessarily to to put numbers on that, but you we can imagine that there has been a reduction, and that those obviously have cascading impacts to the towns that are on the Illinois River, on the Mississippi River that may rely on some of that, you know, fishing

Amy: 15:06

Mhmm.

Katie: 15:06

Recreational fishing money to come in.

Amy: 15:08

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Abigail: 15:10

I would say too, like, on the resources of just removing them in the like, doing management in the first place of these is that's a lot on a, like, on a state organization, thinking about prevent we were talking about this, you know, confluence of the two basins, of the two watersheds, you know, preventing them from getting in the Great Lakes in the first place. Like, I mean, I'm sure a lot of capacity, energy, time, money is going into, like, these steps to prevent them from getting in there, because once they're in there, it's so much worse. So, like, a lot of investment.

Katie: 15:45

Oh, absolutely. And I mean, one of the biggest investment areas right now is at the Brandon Road Lock, which is around Joliet, and it's sort of the connection between the waterways surrounding Chicago and Lake Michigan ultimately, and the Illinois RiverMississippi River Basin. And this has been a project that's sort of been in, I don't know, the cooking stages for a long time. Just recently, the states of Michigan and Illinois, like, came to an agreement in terms of, you know, payments so that construction can go forward. But like you said, Abigail, that is a billion dollar project, which is gonna create this sort of I almost think of it as like a gauntlet for Carp because it's not just gonna be, like, one one barrier that they're gonna put in to try and stop them.

Katie: 16:36

It's actually a series of different control measures, like carbon dioxide bubbling, acoustics to use sound to try and deter them, sort of layered on top of each other so that the idea being if a carp sneaks past one of those barriers, it it'll get caught by something else. But that is so clearly an illustration of what you mentioned in terms of just the cost of prevention, which is still cheaper than the cost of trying to control after the fact.

Amy: 17:07

Mhmm. Mhmm. We talked about invasive carp, and we talked about crayfish. Are there any plants, like if we moved over into the plant world, that you guys are focused in on, or or, again, communicating to the public about?

Katie: 17:23

Yeah. So one species of aquatic plant that we're I would say is kind of top of mind for us in terms of our research and communication is called hydrilla. And so this is a Aquatic plants are always fun to try and communicate about. It's like, oh, it's a green thing that grows in the water, you know, and leaves are sorta like this, but so Right. Plants aren't quite as charismatic as some of our our animals, but the hydrilla challenge, and and this is a species that's become established kind of in the Southeastern US, But the problem with hydrilla is it grows in these huge masses on the water, which can, you know, prevent sunlight from getting into the water.

Katie: 18:08

It can cause these big die offs which reduce the amount of oxygen that's available for species, can make it really tough to get your boat in and out of the water because it clogs up your your

Abigail: 18:19

is it on top of the water, like the leaves on top, or is it, like, within the ground? Like, I'm sure it's rooted under It's rooted under Where do the leaves sit?

Katie: 18:26

The leaves kinda sit near the surface. Oh. So it's not kind of like semi floating but attached. And the challenge, especially with hydrilla too, is it it has this connection to the the bottom, and it has these little tubers that it it grows from, but it can also grow from just having pieces of it sort of cut off.

Katie: 18:52

So fragments of it can float downstream and sprout a new plant, which also not great when you're dealing with water where, you know, water systems where you have boats coming through, chopping stuff up, even just wave action. Luckily, we've only had a couple of confirmed reports of hydrilla in Illinois so far, and of those reports, they've generally been well, one found early, and two found in semi controllable environments, like a neighborhood pond. Sure. Where a lot of effort can be put in, but you can actually I hate it right off the bat. So far we've been sort of lucky, but I think that's been in part because people have noticed these things early on, and reported it to someone to be like, hey, this plant doesn't look like it should be here.

Abigail: 19:50

How is hydrilla, or even any other species, aquatic invasives, getting introduced in the first place?

Katie: 19:59

So with hydrilla, we're, I would say, mostly confident that it's coming from aquarium releases. So this is a plant that's popular in, like, the aquarium and water garden trade. And generally, because we're seeing it in just these isolated areas, it it almost seems like it's someone dumped, say, like an aquarium or, wasn't able, like, to care for a pet or something any longer. So that seems like the main pathway for hydrilla. For things like the carp, those were more releases from aquaculture ponds in the Southeastern US that have made their way up the Mississippi River. So not necessarily the same method, but gets gets animals in the water either way. And with the crayfish, actually, the the red swamp crayfish, one of their major introduction pathways is those are the type of crayfish that if you've ever done, like, a Louisiana style crayfish boil or crawfish boil Yeah.

Katie: 21:00

Sometimes you can buy like those big bags of live crayfish, and occasionally, you know, some have managed to to get out and survive. That that's one pathway that we're looking into for the red swamp crayfish.

Abigail: 21:13

Somebody thinking that they're being kind to the animals that were gonna be eaten and actually

Katie: 21:18

Right. Saved yeah. I'm gonna save this guy. Good luck.

Abigail: 21:21

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely releasing things into the water is like a big no no. Like it's just just don't do it, you know? Yeah.

Abigail: 21:29

It's you're not helping. You're not helping, unfortunately.

Katie: 21:31

Yeah. Despite what Finding Nemo might have, you know, showed you, it's not only is it potentially harmful if those species become invasive, but a lot of sort of captive raised pets don't have the survival skills they would need in the wild. So it's probably not gonna be a good end outcome either way, releasing a native or, you know, releasing a a pet that's not native to an area.

Abigail: 22:01

Or a lunch that you didn't end up cooking and eating. Or, yeah, or a crawfish that didn't make it

Katie: 22:06

to the boil, or or, you know, if you had a piece of bait or a live live bait that you had in your bucket that you didn't need at the end of the day. When in doubt, yeah, don't release anything that you don't know for certain came from that particular water body water body.

Amy: 22:23

Well, that reminds me of places I've been, boat ramps that I've been at, and I worked when I was younger in Minnesota. I felt like at all the boat ramps, there was a lot of communication signs and things that talked about, Make sure you're cleaning off your boat. No vegetation. You know? Make sure you're not dumping live bait into the water.

Amy: 22:47

And what are some, like, communication methods that you guys are using to I mean, obviously this podcast, of course, but, like, what other, like, ways do are you thinking about as far as communicating and alerting people about invasive species that they might look for out in there, wherever they're going, wherever they're recreating, I guess, on water bodies, yeah. Just talk about that a little bit.

Katie: 23:13

Yeah. Absolutely. So I actually have two examples that I'll probably use because it's kind of focused on two different audiences. So one is similar to what you were saying, Amy. Actually, that outreach app boat launches kind of where where people are going to recreate.

Katie: 23:33

And so this past summer, my team did a study up in the Chicagoland area where we traveled to a bunch of different boat launches to do a mix of data collection. So essentially, we were looking to see what signs existed at that launch, you know, what had been put in over the years.

Amy: 23:52

Mhmm.

Katie: 23:53

We also did observation of boaters to see were they actually looking at the signs? Did they, you know, hang out in places that were near signs? Sure. And we did a survey to try and understand not only their their use of the boat launch, but sort of what were their motivations for not just boating, but, like, cleaning their boat afterwards. So trying to understand that behavior component.

Katie: 24:19

And so you are in the process of analyzing those data to make some recommendations to the Illinois Department of Natural Resources about, you know, what types of signs might be helpful, placement at different launches. Because obviously, people are out on the water to have a good time, like that's the boating and fishing. But how do we provide enough information that's not just in a way that sort of you see a sign and you just gloss over, you're like, I'm not even gonna read that up. So I think we've got some some interesting observations we made. You know, people really do want to prevent invasive species.

Katie: 24:58

When we when we talk to them, they're like, you know, I care about this lake I've been coming to for Mhmm. You know, fifteen, twenty years. I've noticed these things, and, you know, I wanna prevent invasive species, but here are some of the barriers I feel like are preventing me. So that was helpful for our team because it gave us information to sort of refine some of the messaging and communication we were doing and understand a small subset, you know, that we surveyed, that we talked to, that we observed, to just have more information to work with so that we can make it more relevant for that audience.

Abigail: 25:36

Yeah. I was gonna say that's so helpful to like get that direct feedback because we know, I mean, we all are working communications and education, and we know that like, just telling somebody something doesn't actually get them to do it. I mean, we all know that we need to eat so many fruits and veggies a day, and reduce certain things, but, you know, we all don't eat the things that are recommended for So how can we expect others in our line of work to be like, if I just tell you, you should do it. Right? So getting that feedback on like what what are the barriers to you doing that?

Abigail: 26:09

It's not just that you don't know. So what can we do instead? Right? Or what are systems that exist that can prevent the introduction in the first place or or, you know, make it easier for you or incentivize you a little bit more.

Katie: 26:22

That's Absolutely. Yeah. Same way, like you said, you know, we know we should eat our veggies. We know we should exercise every day. Boaters, you know, know they should clean their boat.

Katie: 26:31

They know they shouldn't, you know, let any vegetation stick to the end. But, you know, sometimes there might not be the equipment at a boat launch, like having access to water so that they could wipe you know, rinse down their boat or not having the space at a boat launch to be able to, like, pull off and and clean things. So I I think it's the same way. We can tell them, you know, oh, clean your boat, drain, drive. But if they don't if they don't feel like it's accessible enough to them or that they, you know, may not have the right tools, they're less likely to to do so.

Amy: 27:10

What was the other example, Katie? Did you say it another Yeah.

Katie: 27:13

Yeah. So the other example is kind of on the alternate, you know. So we we talked a lot with boaters and anglers in the field, but we also have done a lot of work with aquarium shops and bait shops around the state. And so we we did sort of a blitz this past fall where we visited, wanna say at least 30 shops in person and then had another 50 that we, you know, communicated with through mail and email. And this was really a way for us, not necessarily to talk to the customers of these shops, but to talk with the owners and retailers themselves.

Katie: 27:50

Because we found in sort of past work that we've done, customers really look to, like, a aquarium store owner or employee for the information about, you know, whatever species they're buying. Like, that's a trusted resource for them. And so in our little, like, communication blitz this past year, we really tried to not only just give these retailers outreach brochures, other information, but we wanted to start conversations with them about, like, what are things that your customers are concerned about? What are things that you wish you had? Some of them were like, yeah.

Katie: 28:32

I get these these animals, but I'm not always sure that they're exactly what the packaging says because there's, like, confusing common names. It'd be helpful if I had some, you know, identification guides that were not made for scientists. Yeah. You know, people who aren't in our little bubbles understand. And then as part of that too, we also have a a course, an online course that the retailers can take, which is sort of a short little, I don't wanna say like a certification, but it's part like, we call it our green retailer program.

Katie: 29:12

And so if they complete the course, which provides information about not only invasive species in general, but sort of what are the rules and regulations in Illinois that pertain to, like, buying and selling non native species. We have it so that if they take this little mini course, they can be part of our Be A Hero website, which is our invasive species messaging campaign, to sort of show that they are a retailer who is, I don't wanna say, passionate, like, they care, responsible and they want to be able to provide the best information to their customers. I think in in doing this, we felt it was really important to go in person to have some of these conversations because it helps start building those relationships so that they know that, hey. This person from Sea Grant, this person from the university is someone I can go to with questions that and they don't feel necessarily like, oh, this is someone who's gonna for because we're not enforcement an enforcement agency. Right.

Katie: 30:17

It's not like, oh, they're I can ask them questions and not feel like, uh-oh, if I get in trouble, you know, something's gonna happen.

Amy: 30:23

Mhmm.

Abigail: 30:24

I had no idea about that, like, certification course, you know, like that yeah. That's really cool and that I mean, I see the Be A Hero Transport Zero, like, stickers and campaigns always when I go to, IDNR sites and I think they're also at some forest preserve sites, which is really great. Hats off to you all for, like, looking at the sourcing. Right? And then being like, what can we do about that to incentivize?

Abigail: 30:49

That's a really, really neat program.

Katie: 30:52

Yeah. Definitely. And I mean, I think it just speaks to a broader point, which is trying to figure out with these different audiences, whether it's anglers, boaters, aquarium owners, who who are the people that they go to for information? Who are their trusted sources? And then being able to have those people sort of be informed by our science, by our outreach, because we know that they have those audiences already listening to them.

Katie: 31:20

They know that they're a trusted source. Whereas some people might just see us as like, oh, it's that scientist from, you know, the university. So I think building those relationships is really something that we try and try and invest time and effort into. Mhmm.

Amy: 31:35

And speaking to them about something that they care about, right? Yeah. Absolutely. They care about that ecosystem that they use for recreation or or, you know, whatever, or even their pets, you know. That's a whole world that I've never even thought about before, so I find that really fascinating.

Amy: 31:53

I thought, I think it would be really interesting to go visit pet shops and things like that, and that, yeah, that whole world would be something I wouldn't know anything about. So that's really neat, a neat program to educate business owners. I think business owners are, maybe, I'm not, I guess just assuming, but you know, they're looking for things to differentiate themselves as a part of business, right? And so becoming a responsible business owner, responsible, you know, environmental citizen and showing that to their customers, you know, could be a benefit for them too. So that's interesting.

Katie: 32:32

Yeah. Absolutely. I I would say too, I mean, beyond that and and obviously, lot of them are very passionate about their animals. Like, they want what's best for them, and they are really cognizant of not wanting to hurt the environment. That's why they got into it, because they love animals.

Katie: 32:50

Right. But I would also say one thing that we've heard, because we've we've done some surveys in the past too, is they also want, like, they wanna make sure that their industry is not like a scapegoat for, like, oh, well, it's always the pet trade fault that invasive species get out. So there's somewhat of that too, like they don't want to incur any additional restrictions or regulations, so there's somewhat of a want to sort of, let's get ahead of this before this becomes something that is forced upon us. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Abigail: 33:27

Yeah. Definitely. Because they're the ones who kind of know their industry. Right? If it's kind of regulations are put in place in a play from individuals that aren't, you know, part of it,

Katie: 33:41

they they don't know what to expect. Right? So Right. Exactly.

Abigail: 33:45

We're kinda talking about, like, prevention from an industry level. Our listeners are often members of the public. Maybe they're involved in different industries, things like that. How can the public help prevent the spread of aquatic invasives?

Katie: 33:59

Yeah. So, I mean, we have talked a lot about industry, but really it does come down to a lot of individual actions. When you know, a lot of people might think, oh, well, maybe I'm not a boater, so it doesn't matter, you know, I clean my boat, or I don't have aquarium pets, so I'm not gonna release them. I would say, you know, thinking about your day to day life, the best way to prevent an invasive species is to take actions that relate to whatever hobby you do. You know, if you like to fish, maybe it's not releasing any live bait.

Katie: 34:33

If you like to garden, making sure that if you're using any water plants, those are native species.

Amy: 34:41

Mhmm.

Katie: 34:42

So there are specific actions depending on, like, what your particular hobby is, whether it's clean, drain, drying drying your boat Mhmm. Not dumping your pets. But I would also say, also just being kind of cognizant of the world around you, because we do know that early detection of invasive species is one of the best ways we can, you know, eradicate them and control them before they become sort of unfeasible to to manage. And that's something I think everybody can do. You know, if you're out, you go to a a park and you walk on a trail along a river, if you notice, hey, there's some weird plants I've never seen before.

Katie: 35:22

Maybe just mentioning it to a ranger. There are things like apps. I think of things like iNaturalist that can help you identify things if you're like, do I really, you know, wanna take you know, bring this up to the ranger? Are they gonna think I'm silly because this is like a normal species? So if that, like, is a constraint, there are tools that can help you ID unusual things.

Katie: 35:47

But I I would say that's one of the ways that anyone can help is just observing the world around you. And if you notice something that just kinda seems off, you know, letting if it's, you know, in the state, letting the Illinois Department of Natural Resources know, letting a local, like, park ranger know, any of those would be good good actions. Extension office? Extend exactly your local extension office, for sure.

Amy: 36:14

Mhmm. Mhmm. I was just gonna say those are good because, you know, I can picture myself hiking along a trail, along a lake. I can picture myself gardening. I can pick you know, those are really good.

Amy: 36:25

I can picture myself doing those things and thinking, oh, yeah. I guess I could help. I I might not have even known that I could help, but I can help. So I like that.

Katie: 36:36

Right. And I mean, it it's somewhat different than, like, terrestrial species because we're not always necessarily in the water or even around the water. I often think of aquatic invasive species are sometimes, like, out of sight or out of mind because unless you apparently really love snorkeling, you're not always, like, hanging out underneath the surface of the water. You may not know what's going on. So I think the more eyes we can have, whether it's people specifically involved in recreation with water, or just people who enjoy sitting by the lake and watching, the better chance we have to catch things early on.

Katie: 37:11

Well, wonderful.

Amy: 37:13

Anything else, Katie, that you wanna add that we didn't ask you today that you wanna add for our listeners?

Katie: 37:20

You know, I think one thing I would add is it can often be somewhat depressing to talk about invasive species because you're like, oh gosh, okay, it's here. What are we gonna do about it? But I will say that there we have had successes in managing some invasive species. One that comes to mind for me is the infamous sea lamprey, which, you know, isn't exactly the most aesthetically pleasing fish, but essentially, these are parasites that live on fish species, and they cause a lot of damage because they oftentimes kill their host. But while this was a huge issue in the Great Lakes, especially in, like, the mid twentieth century, a lot of resources and effort were put into developing control methods for the lamprey, mainly through the application of essentially, it's a lampricide, so like an herbicide but targeted for lamprey.

Katie: 38:16

And that program has, over the years, has really I mean, we went from having so many lamprey in the Great Lakes to a really manageable number. They're not gone, and they probably won't be gone, but it's at a level that's not impacting our native ecosystems anymore. Now granted that has been a very expensive program over the years, and it does cost money annually to keep it going. But I think at least it's it's shown that putting the effort towards coming up with solutions can sometimes mitigate the worst of the impacts of invasive species even if we can't get rid of them totally altogether.

Amy: 38:58

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Abigail: 39:00

Yeah. I love the, I love the throwback to, longtime listeners of the pod know that we did cover, Lamprey in a, like, a Halloween episode in 2023. So, excited to have that throwback, and I'm excited to hear that it is managed now like, manageable now. I mean, I think we we all kind of know that the management human management of disrupted ecosystems long term is just kind of necessary given the status of our of our ecosystem and how we've altered the ecology of our world. But the fact that this can be shown as a success story is really, really exciting to hear because I remember hearing about the lamprey initially in college and being like, these are gonna kill everything.

Abigail: 39:46

Giant fish keels. The shores are covered in dead fish and like, you know, like and and they're creepy too. Like, you look at them and they're like the they're like, you know, the what's the opposite of charismatic species? Right? Like, that's what the lamprey is, is, like, horrifying.

Abigail: 40:02

And so just the I idea that or the the update that that is successful, and we've used technology and science and just innovation in general to address this issue and and restore balance and healthy ecosystems is really exciting.

Amy: 40:22

Exactly. Can be done. We can do it. Right? Well, thanks, Katie, so much for sharing your knowledge today on our podcast

Katie: 40:30

Thank you.

Amy: 40:31

About aquatic invasive species. We really appreciate your time. As we do with every episode, we're gonna finish off with an everyday observation where we highlight the mundane and normal of our environment that actually really interesting. So Abigail, I'll point at you first.

Abigail: 40:51

I'm ready. So I leave it's again, it's it's December right now, even though this is released in April, but I I don't clear my garden. I do, like, a couple of things, but I don't really I leave mainly everything up, and I've been doing a lot of seed collecting, and I had this thought as I was collecting seeds that I was like, am I taking too much? Like, it's all for donation, but like, you know, you wanna leave some, that's kind of the point of feeding wildlife, and, I did not take too much. I've had a wealth of goldfinches all over my cone flowers

Amy: 41:27

Yep.

Abigail: 41:27

And it's just been really wonderful to see. Every time I see them, I kinda go, woah, the goldfinches are out. And I'm sure my family's tired of hearing me say, oh, the goldfinches, but I just they're just so pretty, and even when they're not like that bright gold color, they're still really pretty, and it's like one of the only birds I can identify that is, you know, like and so it's just really exciting to see them. So that's my every observation.

Amy: 41:49

They're petite and cute and colorful. Yeah. What about you, Katie? What's your everyday observation?

Katie: 41:56

Yeah. So also speaking that it, you know, is December when we're taping this, the other day, we had one of the first, I would say, like, you know, significant snowfalls, and I was, like, inside. I'm, like, okay. You know, it's kinda gross. Do I wanna go outside?

Katie: 42:12

And I I convinced myself to go for a walk down to this pond that we have in my neighborhood. And just, you know, kind of observing the geese and watching the ice creep in from, like, the shoreline into the lake and watching things start to freeze over was, I would say, ordinary, but kind of especially after having a really mild winter last year, it was kind of cool to see, you know, ice formation already in early December to hear that quietness of the snow, have the geese, you know, holding out in those little pockets of open water. So just kind of a I don't know. This is the point of winter when it it it all stills, the snow still feels very fresh and exciting. And that's come February and March.

Katie: 42:55

I might be singing a different tune. But just being down by the lake and observing the quietness and of the ice and was just really nice.

Amy: 43:03

Yeah. I agree. I love the snow. I love the big flakes of snow. Well, I guess I have an observation the other day of that I wanted to share about just seeing a kestrel out.

Amy: 43:22

You know, this is at my mom and dad's place, and they live on a farm. And so you go, my dad was really excited about it. What is it? What is it? What is it?

Amy: 43:31

What is it? So we, you know, we talked about the kestrel and, you know, hovers around and hunts and kind of has a really cool hunting style. And I told him also that not lots of times you can see him just kind of like solo sitting on a hot, you know, electric line a lot. But, you know, when you see them up close, they're really colorful, really cool, really, you know, just like meat falcon look, you know, to them. So and they're pretty much, I think I mean, I assume their range is pretty much across Illinois.

Katie: 44:05

I'm not

Abigail: 44:06

We definitely have one here.

Amy: 44:07

Yeah. I'm not a birder, but, yeah, the the it was really neat just to just to see that that kestrel hanging around. And so yeah, that's my everyday observation.

Abigail: 44:22

I love kestrels. I think they're so, like, I mean, talk about charismatic, right? Like, so pretty, right? Like, they have different coloring. They're small, they're kinda cute, and then they're fierce.

Amy: 44:34

Yes. This like, fierce little package, little small package. Yeah.

Abigail: 44:39

Yeah. So So much,

Katie: 44:41

yes, so much, I don't wanna say attitude, but there's a lot of personality in a small package.

Amy: 44:46

Yeah. I agree. I agree. If I was a photographer, I'd be hunting them down to take pictures of them all the time because they're just so cool.

Abigail: 44:55

One of the smaller I can't remember if they're a hawk or a falcon.

Amy: 45:01

They're like they're one of the That's pretty true.

Abigail: 45:02

The falcon. They're this I think we're they're one of the smallest falcon species, I think. Well, now, you know what? I should stop talking because I've claimed they dealt with birds, and it's true. I don't.

Abigail: 45:12

So I should just stop.

Katie: 45:14

Can't help you either. Yep. Very limp on that birds.

Abigail: 45:18

Yeah. Katie goes swim swim, not flat flap. Yes.

Katie: 45:22

Deal with the fins, not the feathers.

Amy: 45:24

The feathers. That's fun. Well, it's always fun to learn though, you know. Now we're now we're all gonna go back and, you know, look up

Katie: 45:32

Right after this, I'm Googling. Yeah. We will be experts

Amy: 45:36

after this podcast. So come back and come back to the next episode. We might get you give you an update on American Kestrel. But well, thank you again, Katie, for joining us today. We were enlightened by, you know, some and really ended on a real positive note, where we can do we can do things.

Amy: 45:56

There are there are positive success stories when it comes to invasive species as a whole, so we can't get down. We gotta keep moving forward. Right?

Katie: 46:04

Definitely. Yeah. And thank you guys for having me. It's always always fun to talk about because there is a lot we can do, you know, as individuals to help

Amy: 46:14

Mhmm.

Katie: 46:14

Help keep our waters healthy and clean.

Amy: 46:18

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, this has been another episode on the Everyday Environment podcast. Check us out next week where we will talk with members of our nutrient reduction loss strategy team here at Illinois Extension, and they are going to talk about how farmers are protecting our water.

Abigail: 46:40

This podcast is University of Illinois Extension production, hosted and edited by Abigail Garofalo, Erin Garrett, and Amy Lefringhaus.