Movement of Armadillos in Illinois with Agustin Jimenez

Abigail: 00:07

Welcome to another episode of the Everyday Environment podcast, where we explore the environment we see every day. I'm your host, Abigail Garofalo.

Karla: 00:15

And I'm your cohost, Karla Griesbaum.

Abigail: 00:18

And today, we are here with Agustin Jimenez, professor of zoology at SIU, and he is here to chat with us about zoonotic diseases and armadillos. Welcome, Agustin.

Agustin: 00:29

Thank you very much. Thank you, Karla. Thank you, Abigail. It's a pleasure.

Abigail: 00:35

Yeah. We are excited to chat with you about this topic that has really come to the forefront in the last five years. I mean, it's always been at the forefront and something that a lot of us have been interested in, but I just feel like too when it comes to emerging diseases and and where they come from. And then now we're talking about too, like, these species that are kind of exploring more and expanding their habitats kind of naturally a little bit. So I'm just really excited to learn more about this and take this opportunity this season to talk about it.

Abigail: 01:04

So why don't we get started with you telling us about your work at SIU?

Agustin: 01:09

Well, I am a professor of zoology in here. I joined SIU in 2009. I teach animal diversity and parasitology. Animal diversity is a survey course sophomore level that during which we explain the diversity of animals. Yes.

Agustin: 01:29

We use a phylogenetic perspective to explain the relationships and then how the shared ancestry help us explain and make predictions on aspects of their biology, their ecology, their interactions with the environment, and also their ability to grow, reproduce, and then, you know, like, diversify. So so in in this this is to me is is is very close to me. I've been doing similar courses to this since I was a TA in graduate school. And then I also teach parasitology. Parasitology is a senior level course for which we basically study the diversity of metazone parasites mainly.

Agustin: 02:13

But we also include the diversity of several protozoans, and then that includes an car organisms such as malaria. There is, like, toxoplasmosis. It goes there. There is also leishmaniosis. Several of these pathogens that are mainly vector bond that have had seen an increase in the last few years in the recent past.

Agustin: 02:37

Some of them actually reflect a formidable history. It has a the history of us as Americans, how we're actually shaping the landscape to help reducing these diseases. As the case is malaria, we sort of eradicated it from from this place. Of course, malaria was endemic in Illinois until the '30s, the 1930s. And then we see how these organisms are coming back.

Agustin: 03:06

So it is very helpful. And then we try to train this new generation of zoologists that are able to actually solve these problems and actually make predictions and help us elevating the consequences that they might have. That links kind of, like, my interest in teaching with my research. So the research that I do revolves around the diversity of parasites. I'm a specialist on nematodes, basically worm the roundworms.

Agustin: 03:41

Parasites that infect mainly say mammals. But when one says mammals from the perspective of a mammalogist, that would be either bats or rats. Because they are the most diverse. And I concentrate on a group of parasites that actually occurs in chrysanthes rodents, you know, like your common rat, kind of like the those those those little animals. But then also, they they have a group that goes into marsupials and armadillas.

Agustin: 04:13

And they are, like, very common in the neotropic. When I started doing my investigations, when I was interested on this business of research, I was trying to study the patterns of coevolution, how these organisms are kind of, like, coevolving. But then when, like, really into my PhD, I discovered that when that happens, but it's far more interesting when these animals actually switch kind of like hosts. When they all of a sudden are, like, present in, oh, yeah. They are, like, in in your little kind of, like, marsupials, but then all of a sudden, they are present in mice.

Agustin: 04:51

And then you cannot explain that based on shared ancestry. I collaborate with people in the in several institutions from across the world, but I have very close colleagues in the in SIU, in in in the wildlife department, also in in in other universities in the state and across the country.

Karla: 05:15

You mentioned that some of sometimes these parasites or these diseases, you know, all of a sudden shift where they're not staying within one animal, they go to another species. How often does it happen where it spreads to humans?

Agustin: 05:30

Well, that one is relatively the kind of like when the pathogen comes in contact with people, that happens very frequently. However, our immune system is such that in most cases, we're able to shut down that initial infection. See, like, kind of like the pathogens come into our body and then our body goes like, I'm going to switch you off. So we see that as an example with mosquito bites. In mosquito bites, we have, like see, like, how they will actually, we have that reaction.

Agustin: 06:07

That is, like, our immune system saying no. And not to not only one thing, but not to like a cocktail of nasty pathogens that are there. So from that perspective, the the encounter is relatively frequent. I don't have a number to actually and then that's actually very interesting. What would be that number?

Agustin: 06:28

How could we explain to individual, to people how frequent that is? And how lucky we are of having this formidable immune system that we have? But then the next stage, the compatibility, that is kind of like the other filter that we will could be dealing with, that is less frequent because it depends of of several things. And then in in some of these circumstances, all of these conditions need to be met. One, that they the host, the human being is immunocompromised or short of them.

Agustin: 07:02

Or two, that we have a strain of the pathogen or species that is formidable in evading any immune response that we cannot. Or that it is a novel kind of like a site of infection or sometimes the pathogen finds an organ that is not their typical target organ, and then they replic so from from that because of that, those conditions that are in in most cases unpredictable because we don't know the priors. We know don't know the diversity and we don't know their the what they do in nature, then that is where we'll come with these surprises.

Karla: 07:43

And you're dealing with, you know, evolution, like you said. So if there's a mutation within one of these parasites, you don't know what it's gonna do. Right?

Agustin: 07:51

Yes. Yes. Exactly. And then see part of, like, my initial work is trying to study these phylogenies. And then in the phylogenies, you study the distribution of the pathogen.

Agustin: 08:03

So, let's say, we go with the haplotypes and we see where these haplotypes are. They kind of, like, say, in mice. Although all of them are in mice of the one species, okay. That is fine. But then it's when we get to cluster, to clades.

Agustin: 08:19

Now all of a sudden have the the haplotypes in kind of like in mice, and then some others occur in pocket gophers, and some of those occur in marsupials, then that is when we go like, oh, wait. Is a main pattern here just evidenced by the genetic diversity. And then we need to start actually just like asking the questions of what mechanisms are favoring these parasites to act as generalists. Because basically they are good or able to survive and reproduce at least some in different hosts, those are the pathogens that that worry me. Those are kind of like the ones that takes a go.

Agustin: 09:03

Kind of like, let's just keep a look on these ones. Oh, no. They are they are fine. Well, they are fine if we keep them contained, but then, you know, it's like they would have a tendency to modify the environment, to bring noise. And then noise, that that modification brings all of these organisms together to a melting pot that might bring up, like, some unprecedented outcome.

Abigail: 09:31

Yeah. It makes it makes me think about, you know, when we're thinking about restoration and, like, improving, you know, a species health in general. We think about we want genetic diversity. Right? Like, we don't want only the same species in an area.

Abigail: 09:45

That's what makes a species really susceptible to dying or failure or whatever. And so it's interesting. You're like, that same concept applies to things we don't want. When we see a lot of genetic diversity in these parasites, in these, you know, diseases and things like that, we know that they have the better ability to thrive in other places that we might not want them. And so I'm just like, oh, like that concept goes both ways.

Abigail: 10:15

It's like a basic ecological concept, like genetic diversity is valuable to the survival of the species whether you want it or not. And I'm like, oh, like my brain is a little blown. So

Agustin: 10:28

Yeah. It's like there is there is like we are humans, and then we think from the anthropocentric perspective. And then sometimes the things that are good for us maybe are not good for the environment and the other way around is kind of like in this case, I feel that we need to start up identifying that part. It's like, okay, we modify the environment. Then there will be a lot of these consequences that are going to come with that modification.

Agustin: 10:58

And certainly, we profit of those modifications for a short period of time. But then kind of like even in less than one generation, we're going to start paying back for them. And then from that perspective, it's kind of like sometimes difficult to make that cost prediction. You know? Like, kind of like, we just go in and say, yeah, the name of the game is survival.

Agustin: 11:20

Let's kind of like survive. Yeah. But then in that, it's gonna cause reproduction. And you will have offspring, and then this offspring is going to have a hard time surviving. And then it's like going to be like, oh, yeah.

Abigail: 11:32

Yeah. Oh. Oh, so cool. Well, could you share an example of a recent or notable zoonotic disease event involving wildlife in North America?

Agustin: 11:42

Well, yes. There are several. There are several. Some of them are notorious. Potentially, like like, one is the avian influenza.

Agustin: 11:56

The avian avian influenza that basically we started detecting in in March, in February, went through kind of, like, April in which we we we started seeing human cases. That one was sort of scary because of essentially this pathogen, this strain of this this this virus shifted, just shifted from marine

Abigail: 12:27

Avian species. Right? Like, those, like, shorebirds and yeah.

Agustin: 12:31

There you go. It's it's switching to into sea lions. And and then and then this in Argentina, like, probably three, four years ago. And then from there, kind of like the the the the seas expanded and then disseminated with these shorebirds and then the marine mammals all the way to the other coast from the Atlantic Coast to the Pacific. And then it it reached Peru where it was killing.

Agustin: 12:59

Like , it became more, let's say, pathogenic. The virus kind of, like, accumulated mutations that made it more aggressive in the pits, you know, under the sea lion marine mammals that would live in that coast. And then from there, it just started propagating into, a wave northward until it reached America. And in The United States, we we started seeing that disease mainly with cattle. Like, all of these organisms in crowded conditions that once they kind of, like, were exposed to these these these these birds that will come and then feed on the same feeding lots, Then they they they kind of, like, created the chance of encounter between the pathogen and new hosts and then the constant exposure just like get to the cans.

Agustin: 13:52

And maybe one week, cow contracted infection, and then poof. From there it went. In this case, that that that one goes says wildlife, cattle, cattle, humans. But then another example includes hanta virus. Betsy Aracawa was a famous piano performer performer from New Mexico.

Agustin: 14:20

And then she contracted this disease earlier this year. This disease is the causative agent of the hemorrhagic fever. Hemorrhagic fever. There are several viruses that cause several kinds of hemorrhagic fever and most of them are horrible. They induce fevers.

Agustin: 14:39

They induce kind of like damage the epithelium of several tissues including the lungs. And then they cause some internal bleeding that is bad. And then the chance of mortality even for people who are healthy is up to thirty percent. So it's relatively high. So this person unfortunately passed away because then mice, like, typically deer mice, it's kinda like they come into the houses.

Agustin: 15:10

They start, like, living there. And then as they leave, they they defecate and they urinate in these places. And then once they they accumulate all of this matter, the virus that is present in those tissues just becomes aerosolized and then might infect people who are cleaning. And then, you know, it must be a constant exposure.

Karla: 15:33

Yeah. . So it breathe that in even. Right?

Agustin: 15:36

Yes. That's It's like just like when we clean the kind of, like, the the the garage, it's gonna or a chef. We go there, and then I've I've I've been working with with mice for twenty four year no. Twenty five years. So, essentially, when I go to houses, I know how to recognize the droppings of wild mice and the droppings of house mice.

Agustin: 16:00

House mice are like kind of like kind not super like, ah. But then kind of like the wild mice, I am more concerned, especially when I am in areas that are that I don't know if there is a high prevalence of the virus or or whatever. Well well, this infection was famous because then Betsy Aracawa was married to Jean Hackman. And then her passing, my off counts that she wouldn't care take care of this famous actor, and he passed away one week after. So it's kind of like this cascading effect that brought this attention to this disease that the pathogen, the virus was discovered in 1993 in the 4 Corners area.

Agustin: 16:47

And then this demonstrates that even when we try to control them, the pathogens are looking around, looking about in the environment, cycling in wildlife. And then provided this encounter exposes us to their their infective agents, then things might go south.

Abigail: 17:06

It kind of shows me too, like, the one, the importance of, like, respecting and understanding wildlife. Right? Like, in, like, understanding the ways because a lot of the times in early on in the season, we talk with Joy O'Keefe about animal encounters and, like, how it's valuable to, like, understand what you're dealing with and actually deal with it effectively. Right? And, like, what is a risky?

Abigail: 17:31

What is a, like, a encounter? What is a mundane encounter? Like, what are the differences between all of those things? And, like, then thinking about, okay. I have a mouse problem in my house.

Abigail: 17:43

What how am I act like, what is the actual problem here, and how am I dealing with that? And then what are the things that go along with those pieces instead of just being like, oh, if I just trap them, they'll go away. Well, something attract them in the first place. So just kinda showcases to me the value and the importance of understanding our wildlife and just bringing this massive respect on this thing that, like, life will out. So, like, let's understand it and see how, you know, we can work within these systems that are naturally occurring.

Agustin: 18:12

Yeah. Yeah. And then this is basically the housing in the code. Let's say, the code housing in America is is borderline formidable because we're totally isolated from the external environments. Our isolation is efficient for keeping a stable temperature, which improves, say, the quality of life of people living in there.

Agustin: 18:38

But then at the same time, it isolates us from external environments, include I mean, elements, temperature and all of that, but then also also insects, like, say, these these small mammals or essentially, we isolate ourselves. And then not noticing that these organisms are coming inside the house, that that might be problematic. And then then it's not only the one. It is like as you just perfectly say, Abigail, if you see one, they actually found their way. And then more will come and then one needs to pay attention to those.

Abigail: 19:19

My favorite example I tell people is if they see a house centipede, I'm always like, those are predators. So if you have a house centipede, you have things that that animal likes to eat. They're always like, what? That's terrifying. I'm like, well, know your animal.

Abigail: 19:33

Right? You see it? You're not gonna get rid of it by killing that house centipede. It's just coming for food. So but

Karla: 19:40

And they say, you know, mice, you know, their heads are like smaller, like a about as small as a dime, and so any hole that's that dimes they can fit through. Mhmm. So trying to find those places to cover up and like keeping your food sealed and all that, You know? It's not just trapping them, like Abigail said. You have to kinda stop it at the source.

Agustin: 20:00

Yeah. Yeah. But then see that in a way, I wish that people people would would appreciate that notion that you're describing right now Because then in that way, people get the feeling that they are detectives, that they need to solve a problem, that they they the problem is not only this. It's a notion. The notion that the the the mouse can fit for wherever their head fits.

Agustin: 20:25

And then from that, with that idea, then the individuals, everybody should be kind of, like, going around and then try to troubleshoot that problem. Right. It sounds like, mad, yeah, we do it we do it every day. But then you might one may might be discovered that not everybody thinks that way. Yeah.

Agustin: 20:47

That's why we have, like, poisons for rats or, like , the traps because then people can, like, use that convenient devices to basically give away that opportunity, the opportunity to become a detective. Right. No. This is not more than it's like that is the scientific process right there in your house, in your garage that you can do on on your own. To to me, that is one of those opportunities that I always tell my my kids, my friends, hey.

Agustin: 21:19

You know, while this is happening, what would you do? And and then just, like, seeing kind of, like, the connection in their eyes when they make it. It's amazing.

Karla: 21:30

Well, Agustin, we always get this question when it comes to almost anything, and it has to do with climate change. How is climate change and shifting animal ranges affecting the spread of these diseases?

Agustin: 21:44

It is see, like, essentially, when you see the armadillos, when you see ticks, when you see mosquitoes, it's not it's they are essentially climate change. They are, like it's not the hair, it's them. And then let us let us explain this with, like like, another example. Like, I was going to save it by the end to the end, but then this is one of those impressive elements that I saw since I arrived to SIU, to Carbondale. So I came here, and then all of a sudden, we had, you know, like, one part that I really love about Southern Illinois is the public lands, the ability to just, like, drive ten minutes and be in a state park or in the national forest.

Agustin: 22:35

Public land. And then just like go around, hike, northern. Most of the hiking trails are well maintained, and they are easy to do in the morning. But then on the southern, this is about, like, 2010, 2012, 2013, we started seeing ticks like crazy. And then the encounter with ticks became, kind more like, greater and greater to the point that by mid to the mid tens 2016, 2017, we'll get to see these ticks in our backyards.

Agustin: 23:12

Kind of like we have, like, so many mammals that are moving around that they are ringing these ticks. And then we started just identifying these ticks, then it's like, yep. It's like a lonestar tick. Yeah. It was the the big deal.

Agustin: 23:27

Let's kind of, like, keep moving around. But then it was when I went back, and then we started checking the fact that they were not supposed to be here. That they were supposed to kinda, like, be there, kind like, in Southern Kentucky, like, Southern Arkansas, and then just be there. But then as as as we detect detected them, then we just kept, like, checking them. And then I don't remember the outsource, but then they documented.

Agustin: 23:54

They basically just wrote an article saying, hey. These ticks are already kind of, like, in the Central part of Indiana and the the Central part of Illinois. Somebody needs to be doing something. That was Dr. Allen from U of I, by the way. Kind of like they they come up with this this this play by play movement and expansion.

Agustin: 24:15

So in that case, we are having so milder winters. Now the survival of these ticks during the winter, their chance of surviving increases. So during the winter, you know, like, if you are feeding on the summertime, so then you're just, like, consuming stuff, you might have energy to survive the winter. We I don't know what ticks do in the winter. They go on the ground, but in the summer or in the spring, they are expected to come back.

Agustin: 24:51

But if the temperatures are too low, that will kill them. Well, it is probably our temperatures are not long enough to kill them all. And it just take a few of those survive surviving organisms to start your reproducing, and then you're, like, bringing all of these ticks into the the the environment. Now since we're with arthropods and then why why I bring these because they are vectors of diseases. And in this case, these ticks vector of the Ketz cell parasites.

Agustin: 25:23

They also vector some babesiosis, Babesia microti like, and other species, but they also infect one element that pathogen that we know as cytotoxin felis. That is the causative agent of the bobcat fever. Bobcats are innocuous to that that disease. Like, kind of like they most of the bobcats that we have screened in in Southern Illinois are infected, but they seem fine. However, when this pathogen infects domestic cats, if that cat is not treated, it has a seventy percent chance of being killed by the infection because of the size difference and then the the differences in the physiology of the immune response of the domestic cat against the parasite.

Agustin: 26:16

Actually, you'll like bring a cascade that this is is their own immune system of their domestic cat is actually killing parts of the cat. And it's the active infection and then the response against infection that that take a high toll on the life of these animals. So that is kind of like one of those diseases that is now more common because of this expansion. To cat to to owners, cat owners, that is that is terrible. But then also it's terrible because it increases our exposure to this babesia.

Agustin: 26:51

Babesiosis is a disease not to be messed up with.

Abigail: 26:56

I was gonna add too, like, I'm not familiar with how prominent feral cats are in the Southern Illinois, but I know that it is, like, a common issue, like, feral house cats in the wild, and so I'm just, like makes me think of that too, and then also properly treating, like, keeping your cats indoors. We say that all we're, please keep your cats inside. Yeah. Interesting.

Karla: 27:20

It almost seems like there's two parts coming into it. We've got not only is sort of warming temperatures expanding the range for all these host animals, but then the ticks, you know, these vectors get in the ground and it the warm weather also makes them survive more readily. So it's kind of like a two punch Yes.

Karla: 27:40

Effect.

Agustin: 27:41

It's it's the effect on the entire ecosystem. And if if if I if you allow me to insist a little bit, and then since we're into arthropods, now we have mosquitoes. And then mosquitoes, you know, depend on temperature to complete their development, depend on stagnant water. And if you have stagnant water for a greater period of time and if your summer extends, kinda like in the season extends to actually just sustain these organisms, these reproduction, then it's not only that they have, like, say so the life cycle of a mosquito takes twenty one days, more or less. So then in in in a normal summer with proper rain, you might have two, maybe three cycles the most.

Agustin: 28:27

But then if you have, like, a greater period of, like like, high temperatures, you might have four or five. That that signifies that you're going to have a bunch more of mosquitoes that is going are going to be acting as as vectors of, like, of of nasty diseases. And and the worst part is that is associated also with the temperature in winter. If the temperature in winter, as we described before, is mild enough, it won't kill a lot of the mosquitoes that are in diet pills. They might survive, and then it's for, like, worse.

Agustin: 29:05

What we have seen is that in January, if the temperature is mild, sometimes it reaches like 60 degrees and it's sunny, and then you get to see mosquitoes moving around. And then there's, like, another blood meal that they take that increases their chance to survival. So so this is this is this is a direct connection of of of this this climate change. This way, I I say that that there is this is why, to me, mosquitoes and ticks are global change. They are climate change.

Agustin: 29:38

They are like our weather system, temperature, rainfall. All of that has been modified so that they are able to to survive because they are telling you, well, all the conditions for me to survive are here. So I like it.

Abigail: 29:52

Yeah. I I feel like the milder winter ones is like one we always typically think of. Right? Like, for those who aren't familiar with insects, like, usually it's about like the length of time for cold that's really important for like reducing insect prevalence. They can survive in their certain winter state for so many cold or freezing days or something below a certain temperature depending on the species.

Abigail: 30:17

So they have to meet that threshold to to reduce this the population or eliminate it completely depending, like, that's what kinda keeps species ranges in check. And so when we expend extend those milder winters and they're not as many of those really cold freezing days over time or they're sporadic, right, we're like Agustin was saying, like, we're increasing those chances. What I didn't consider was the mosquito life cycle and how many more opportunities they have to reproduce with those, like because we're seeing the same amount of rain in Illinois, but we're seeing it in big periods with dry periods in between. And so, like like, a big rainfall event and then a longer dry period. So that's allowing that water to stay stagnant without it flowing as often and giving them more opportunity and then refilling it really quickly.

Abigail: 31:08

Right? Like, it's I'm just, like, thinking about that, and I'm just, oh, I didn't think about that there's more chances for life cycles. It's not just that they're they don't die off and they're coming more. So, again, Carla, that one two punch. Right?

Abigail: 31:22

Not as many are dead and they have more chances to reproduce. Yeah. Man.

Agustin: 31:28

And that links to also the survival and the mystery of the armadillos. Because then the armadillos you know, the armadillos, to me, they are super adorable. They are cute. But then they they are, like, essentially, they they have very they they don't have a lot of fur. They have hairs mainly in the in the dental size.

Agustin: 31:50

But then their their body is essentially skin in that includes osteoderms that are very well at, like, losing heat. They cannot, like, absorb heat because they are more or less compact and they retain it, but then their body is like these, like, you know, emittance surface that just releases this heat and then orther more. Since they are mainly insectivorous, they are omnivorous, but then 75% of their diet is insects. Since that happens, they are consuming a lot of dirt. And then that makes their metabolism is kind of like in this low end.

Agustin: 32:30

In short, they are like not like super homeotherms. Like, you might think of another mammal of a similar size. But they are like there. As a consequence, we predicted for years that these organisms could be very limited by the freezing temperatures. If there were freezing temperatures, these organisms would not be able to survive.

Agustin: 32:57

And then say, we're talking about 1993 in the past. Let's say in the in the early mid nineties, people predicted that these animals will never, never reach Kentucky. That they will never come, like, up to, like, this might get to Southern part of Missouri, but that was it. That was come. And then all of a sudden, we start seeing them like, hey, man, they are, like, around Peoria.

Agustin: 33:21

How do we explain that? Well, you know, like, right? The long dispersal organism that have well, there is another link in Nebraska. Well, how we explain that? And then became a population to motivate people to actually revise these predictions.

Agustin: 33:42

To make these predictions essentially what people were using was the presence of the organism linked to the environmental variables that are there. And then they used just computer programs to calculate the probability of the animal to survive in other locations that have these very similar conditions. And then with those, that factor, they make those predictive ranges. It's based on physical evidence, the evidence of the animal, but then in this link to kind of like the conditions that favor or help us explain the presence of these organisms there. But then as the time has happened, we never, we have never tested the active physiology of the organisms.

Agustin: 34:30

Kind of like, you know, like in the winter, how low their temperature actually how low is low? What is the threshold of these organisms to survive? What is their body temperature? What are the fluctuations in the wild or even in the laboratory? So since we don't have that those answers, then we're a little bit in the dark making these predictions of how far they are going to go.

Agustin: 34:57

It is like until we have like this data, we will understand the literally, the superpower. There's the power of our their ability to either adapt or tolerate the the cold temperatures that we have in in the North. It is, to to me, it is kind of, like, very hard to explain how they survive in the winter, especially because then there are some years that we have the the super vortex. The the are you do you guys remember those Yeah. Right.

Abigail: 35:29

The The polar vortex. I'm sure we could get Duane to come back from retirement to explain it to us, or we'll link it to him if we if he has an episode on something like that. But, anyways, continue.

Agustin: 35:40

During those episodes, the animals go out, then they move around. And it's like, well, they are not super active. We don't see a lot of them, but they move. They they kind of like then we're like, yeah. Well, what is happening?

Agustin: 35:55

In January, like, again, days on 60 degrees Fahrenheit, the animals are moving around. So in a way that is like, okay. This the the the we have a lot of things to explain, but we we don't have a lot of the evidence that will help us come up with with with explanations based on observations and testing.

Abigail: 36:20

So much to learn, I feel like, too. Like, I feel like that's telling me, like, don't count them out. Don't count it don't count it out, whatever it is. So Yeah.

Agustin: 36:30

Pretty much. Yeah. The the temperature was a limiting factor, and then we are detected identifying that temperature is probably not one of the the main factors that explain their their their survival. What we're seeing is is there are two aspects that might well, there are several aspects that explain their survival and presence across Illinois. One is the habitat.

Agustin: 36:56

The habitat in Illinois is the center in the southern part is a swamp. It's swampy in several regions. In addition of swamps, there are like creeks. There are rivers. They will have two majestic rivers that kind of, like, surround the area.

Agustin: 37:13

And guess what? These animals are riparian. They love it. They love kind of, like, those those habitats. And the temperature is like cool.

Agustin: 37:22

Like, it's very I might even venture to say that now it it it appears to be subtropical. It's not subtropical. It's an exaggeration that I am making. Other than the temperature is very warm during a lot of the year. And then in addition, all of the landscape that we have, instead of being a barrier, just basically a forest that is homogeneous, It's highly fragmented.

Agustin: 37:51

So we have roads. We have, like, a big yard, like, a big lawn, like, right there in the middle of forest and, like, a cow land for cows. And then these animals love the acres. And they love the acres not because it is a wonderful well, it's a wonderful place to be because they are going to find a lot of larvae of insects that are going to be in the ground, a lot of earth worms, and then also a lot of the decaying matter that they can use for survive. And then since we have modified the environment and do some digging, then it is easier for them to to dig through those surfaces.

Agustin: 38:30

They are amazing diggers anyway, but then in that manner, they are just moving and then increasing their chances for for motility.

Abigail: 38:39

I was thinking about, like, we talked with Kevin Rholling earlier this season a while as well as about rig brood ecology and how we're, like, creating essentially these edge habitats all over. And we mainly talked about how like that's negative interactions, but it's there are many species that love edge habitats and it creates much more of that for a lot of these spaces across. Now, we kind of what you were mentioning was like these negative impacts or I guess like these impacts that humans have had that have created this ecosystem that's kind of positive for our armadillos. What kinds of impacts are armadillos having on the ecosystem that they're now inhabiting with their expanded range?

Agustin: 39:22

Well, there are several. See, like, like, say, we are in this line of the insects. We can see the very same the very same dietary preference or as as as as something that will bring negative and positive outcomes. And it depends of who is saying this. Say, if they are consuming a lot of insects, then in in in kind of like areas nearby, kind of like the the the agricultural landscape, one might say or might expect that they might be controlling the pests for those agricultural systems.

Agustin: 40:01

However, they don't like the agricultural landscape. They kind of like they leave it alone. They only go to forest. This a grad student here in SIU kind of like made built a model to actually chose that they don't like it. They sometimes are present there, but they don't thrive.

Agustin: 40:21

Then that brings the aspect. They still need insects, and they still need to consume them. What insects are they are they feeding on? Well, bumblebees or bees or diapause. Like other insects that are in diapause and then they kind of, like, go underground.

Agustin: 40:38

They have an amazing olfaction system, and they will dig it and get them. So in that case, they buy half an effect on the entomological fauna of the area. Furthermore , kind of like, yeah, they are insectivorous, but then if the opportunity is there, they will eat the neck. They will slurp a snake. If it fits through their mouth, they will do it.

Abigail: 41:03

They Slurp a snake. I'm sorry. They eat so funny of an

Karla: 41:09

Those little decays brown snakes. Perfect size. They're like noodles.

Agustin: 41:13

So, well, imagine just to them, like, a a big earthworm and a snake or not just yeah. They are there. They are protein. Let's eat them. And we have found several species of snakes in in the guts of armadillos, mainly mainly south.

Agustin: 41:29

I haven't found one in Illinois, but then that that moment will make me sad, but then I will also document it. But but then the the situation is that by by doing this, they might affect those animals that lay eggs in the ground. And to that effect, they are they are a problem in some southern states with some bobwhites, I think, that kind of like that that the ground nesting birds that are like, oh, they are exposed. Also, box turtles are like, oh, there is a mix of organisms that might suffer the consequences of this. On the other side, they also move a lot of their kind of like, they they are irrating this this environment.

Agustin: 42:15

And then as as they go digging, they are actually mixing the nutrients that are in the soil, and they are creating other habitats for other animals that might might live through. So in here in campus essentially in campus, we have deployed a few cameras, camera traps that actually show when the animals, the armadillos, come and dig a hole, then they use it for a week or two, and then they just move about. And then all of a sudden, a groundhog is sharing it. And that is common with with a lot of medium sized mammals, but then these armadillos are kind of like building a housing for these organisms as well. Interesting.

Abigail: 43:06

Bioturbation. I love to hear it.

Karla: 43:09

How are you tracking the armadillos population and growth into Illinois?

Agustin: 43:16

Well, see, like like, for a number of years, we were following them with camera traps. That activity has also been expanded by doctor Leon Bastille Russo and his team. They have, like, cameras, like, all over the state. They're kind of, like, in the forest. And then that has helped them helped them predicting the patterns of of behavior.

Agustin: 43:42

Time of the day, kind of, like, these circumstances. However, those patterns of activity do not answer the question of how is their population doing. Because to do that, we need the power of analysis of population genetics. As I was telling you, when kind of, like, we go and collect them, we collect a very few of them when we find the roadkills. See, my wife kind of, like, sometimes makes fun of me because then in my phone, I use the phone to yield reference the find the habitat, but she's, like, kind of, like, goes to pictures of cute kids, cute girls, moments, and then a road kill that is kind of right there.

Agustin: 44:31

Now but okay. I do it to actually your reference, the site. I take the organisms, and then as I bring them in, basically, we extract the digestive system because I'm keep trying to keep track of the parasites that are already present in Texas, in Louisiana, Florida. they are going to eventually show up here. So I go and check.

Agustin: 44:55

But as I told you earlier, I was trained to document and archive other parts of the body. So basically, we take tissue samples that we're going to screen for other pathogens or for their genetic diversity. And once we accumulate enough resources on tissues and also the resources and the availability to actually just secure the funding for doing this work, we are studying now the SNPs, the single nucleotide polymorphisms that across the genome of the armadillos, we have found that about, like, 1,400, like, 1,400 of these SNPs. No. It's not 14,000.

Agustin: 45:42

No. I let's go with four let's go with a lot.

Abigail: 45:45

Those are two big different numbers.

Abigail: 45:48

A lot. Yeah.

Agustin: 45:49

No. But then that actually allows to to see their their homogeneity or heterogeneity. And then, it's like when we were into it, we were like, Yeah, what is it going to happen? See the armadillos. What do they have going for them?

Agustin: 46:06

They live there, but then every single time that they reproduce from one egg, four pups are going to kind of like be born. So they are polyembryonic. Then fourth, they have delayed implantation. Kind of like if there is impregnation, the pups might come up this spring, and then they might come next spring, and then the mother might die. so from those those aspects, also, we were thinking they are moving very fast.

Agustin: 46:37

See since 1849 to 2025, they have moved, like, linearly 1,700 kilometers. So they are kind of moving very fast. And then as a consequence, essentially, we were thinking all of them are going to be clones. We're not going to be able to tell them apart because it's a front of expansion. There won't be anything to see.

Agustin: 47:02

But then some of my collaborators started doing the screening, and they started this to that there were, like, two lineages. One that that comes straight from Mexico crossing the border between Texas and Mexico, and the other one that comes kind of like from Florida. That are kind of like it is the source of a putative colony or like a release Now, it was involuntary, but then it happened there. Well, then all of a sudden, this Juan is his name. He's in the University of Miami in Ohio.

Agustin: 47:41

So, he started checking all of this diversity and he identified that there was heterogeneity on the Basin Of The Mississippi. That they were like very heterosidous. They were mixing a lot. And Furthermore , he used that very same data to calculate their dispersion rate. And he discovered that they are using the Mississippi as an interstate.

Agustin: 48:10

They are kinda, like, going back and forth, back and forth, back. And then they are so well mixed. Now the I mean, they are still part of the same species, the Tassipus Mexicanus, species that we recognize now. But then they have, like, this corridor that allows them their their breeding. So from there, it's kind of like, what is going to happen next?

Agustin: 48:33

And and this is exciting because then as I was driving through Missouri, so I went to Kansas City. I usually go to Saint Louis because it's close and then I have family there. So but then usually when when we go even to Columbia, we get to see occasionally Roadkills, but then most of them are concentrated kind of l like before, like, before O'Fallon even. Just Winesville. Kind of like they are going to be very close to to our river, to the Mississippi.

Agustin: 49:05

But then as as far as we were going, they were we were finding them all over the interstate. So I sent an email to the people in the Missouri Department of Conservation to see if people having saying a lot. And then they're saying, yeah, we receive a lot of calls, but then there is nothing we can do. But in my mind, I'm thinking that if these animals are using the Mississippi as a Interstate, they already hit the corner in St. Louis, and they are going to get the other interstate that is in Missouri, and then they are going to go west.

Agustin: 49:44

And who knows what is going to happen there because then there is slightly more northern than than than we are. And then I wonder if they are going to increase their panmyctic population. They have opportunities to survive, reproduce, and then, you know, do things that armadillos do. And it brings to me kind of, like, the the on this course, the relevance of the rivers for these organisms because then we still have the Northern part of the Mississippi. I mean, these animals have been found in Peking, Quincy, in those parts of Illinois where they are not expected to be.

Agustin: 50:27

But then they will have a lot of forested areas in the western part of the state that might act as good habitat for these organisms. And then again, if this population has the ability, the physiological ability to either tolerate the temperatures or either going to brumation or turpor. I don't know what they do. But they are surviving the the winter, then they might actually find new opportunities there to to, you know, to have another pressure of select you know, like, another pressure that might actually come up or favor the the selection of a new physiological trait.

Abigail: 51:10

Yeah. The the value of, like, collecting that data that you were talking about in the beginning too is, like, so important because some of this, like, genetic analysis, we didn't have the ability to do at some point. So getting all of that data down, there's we don't know what kind of technologies will exist in twenty years that will help us really track them and understand them. Well, as we're trying to understand just, like, our current situation and what to expect in the future, You know, what should Illinois residents know about, you know, living near armadillos or, like, just things to watch out for? Things to know just like we were talking about with the mouse. Right? Like, it's important to understand the species that we're having this new exposure to.

Agustin: 51:50

Well, these animals are here to stay. At least in the South Of I 70, they are around. They are going to be common. See, last weekend, I was having kind of like just interact just kind of like having a good time with some of my neighbors. And then we were having a conversation, and then just underneath their deck, there was an armadillo that started foraging.

Agustin: 52:15

And then we followed the animal until it kind of like went to the other side of the house. So they are going to be present not only in the field but also in the cities. We are thinking that they are going to find, like, these sources of heat in cities, and then they are going to be a very common encounter for us because of their foraging behavior. They have they have a trend to destroy their gardens, their lawns, and this will actually kind of, like, have a, you know, one of those unwanted wildlife people interactions in which they are affecting property.

Agustin: 53:02

The others the other concern is that I still don't know. We don't know. What I know is that the organisms that we have screened for pathogens here in they are clean. No. We need to check again, but then they are clean, which means that the prevalence, if the pathogens are here, it is still low.

Agustin: 53:22

But then to that effect is like, yeah. But then we just have that the animals have an interstate in the river. So they are going to kind of, like, come form this population that might facilitate, number one, the transmission of the mycobacterium leprae or the other species that cows leprosy that we still don't know how it is transmitted, which is like a big kind of like scary moment right there for everybody. But then the other element is that we don't know what are going to be their effects on people because what we know is that not everybody is going to be compatible with the pathogen. The majority of people, even when we're exposed, we are not going to contract the disease.

Agustin: 54:14

However, we know that immunocompromised individuals kind of, like, might have a propensity to facilitate the survival and the production of this pathogen. This pathogen is, like, it is amazing how they are alive because they replicate in a very slow fashion. The bacteria, the all of the members of mycobacterium have, like, a super weird wall cell cellular wall. So you have the bacteria, the cell membrane. Well, then it has the first cellular wall, then a layer of lipids, and another cellular wall.

Agustin: 54:54

Kind of like it is like a sandwich that they have to build. And because of because of this, they it takes them forever to replicate. So so for some person to actually just kind of, like, manifest the the symptoms of the disease of of leprosy, that takes a long while. Anyway, this this long kind of, like, explanation goes to say that we need to be respectful with the animals, and it will be better to leave them alone.

Agustin: 55:25

They they they don't kind of, like, create or or or become permanent in a single location. They are going to be moving around. You might be able to see them in this place for two weeks, then they are going to move away. And then sometimes when they get scared, they cannot like, they just go in a new place and then give them, like, a new home. They that that's their ability.

Agustin: 55:51

In that sense, their home range is not like it's not for the one individual. At least on the ones that we've seen in Illinois for the one individual resides in this sector at this surface, and that is theirs. They will be moving around. But since we're going to see an increase, then others will move around. Now if people in the audience know that there is somebody with immunocompromised at home and they see one of these animals, it might be kind of like recommendable to call animal control to take them away.

Agustin: 56:28

Just kind of like throw them out. Then then you you don't want them nearby. But then if people on, like, say, on other conditions with with a immune system that is is is optimal or is basically I don't know how to say that. But then with a competent immune system, the recommendation would be to prevent the contact with the animals. The animals are very easy to grab.

Agustin: 56:59

So essentially, they don't see well. They don't see well at all. The only thing that gets them going is the noises. Kind of like, you can get next to them, and then we I've been able to just grab them, like, from the tail kind of, like, you know, like, as if it was just a bucket. And they are they are just, like, but when they get scared by noises, they dart away.

Agustin: 57:27

So that is a recommendation. So the recommendation to everybody is prevent encounter with the animals. You can see them and appreciate them in all their glory from a respectful distance. And then in this case, even a respectful distance might be like six feet or even slightly closer. But then that could be enough.

Agustin: 57:52

Prevent touching that. Because then we have seen animals with kind of, like, patterns of the coloration in their shell in Illinois that I unfortunately have not been able to go and test for the presence of the pathogen. I mentioned this because then that the coloration might be one of the symptoms of the disease in armadillos. So it's like kind of like, just start watching that. And if you see one of those animals that look kind of like not uniform color, let them go away, call me because I might actually be interested.

Karla: 58:29

Sure. So keep your distance. Keep your distance. Keep protect your home. Like, we talked about mice earlier.

Karla: 58:38

What else can the public do to help reduce these zoonotic disease transmissions?

Agustin: 58:43

Oh, like, see, that goes even further. See, like, the I would actually prevent the the the other animals, wild animals to come relatively close to one's property. I mean, we cannot avoid them. They in the middle of the night, all of these animals are going through. But then there is a trend that I've seen that that is concerning to me.

Agustin: 59:08

There are people who are allowing, say, raccoons and skunks to come in into the inside the house, and sometimes they feed them the same food that they kind of, like, feed the cats and the dogs. So I would ask people to please stop doing that. That one has several risks for people, for pets, and then also for the wildlife. So there are several diseases that we have going around that affect mainly animals and, say, carnivores. Canine distemper and these diseases that they are that does affect dogs.

Agustin: 59:49

Well, they are super common in raccoons and skunks. And their transmission is like just airborne. It's just like they are close together. One animal is breathing, exhales, particles of the pathogen go in. The other animal gets in those particles, and then it contracts the infection, and then the pathogen knows.

Abigail: 01:00:11

Yeah. Try and keep your dog six feet away. Like, good luck with this. I giggle about that in my I had a face. I'm like, audio medium, Abigail.

Abigail: 01:00:19

Explain what's going on with your face. Because I'm like, those raccoons do not need your help. They're good. They don't need you to feed them. Trust me.

Agustin: 01:00:29

No. No. Yeah. There there is the other aspect of of also part of human nature. Lots of people want to help an individual raccoon.

Agustin: 01:00:40

But then in terms of how the population of raccoons does in Illinois, it's like, man, these these animals are thriving. They don't need our help. I mean, it's like, yeah, I don't want to see them suffer, but it's like, oh, they they are fine. Especially these animals that are synanthropic, that profit from our presence, from our ways, from our modification. We don't need to feed them.

Agustin: 01:01:08

They are going to find our food even when we don't want them to find it. And then that is an aspect to consider. And this is important because then these animals, as they go back and move into the forest, they are going to kind of, like, form these communal leanings. It's kind of like when the the animals are in the forest in the winter. They find a burrow, a hole.

Agustin: 01:01:32

They go in, but then in the same hole, we have seen bobcats that kind of like living with a raccoon. And then there is also a possum. And then sometimes chip monks are in the very back, which actually, like, mixes all of these potential pathogens or increases the likelihood for that to happen. So that is something that we would like people to consider. That we see the animal coming in, but we never know what the other interactions of the animal has just don't how it has engaged with other elements.

Abigail: 01:02:14

Oh my goodness. Well, Agustin, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge on zoonotic diseases, on armadillos, all the things that we can just know more. I feel like I could talk to you much longer because I'm just so intrigued by all the things, and this is just a topic I don't know a lot about.

Abigail: 01:02:29

But we have to move on because we are gonna finish today's episode with one of my favorite segments, everyday observations, where we highlight the mundane and normal of our environment that is actually really interesting. So, Karla, I'm gonna pick on you. You go ahead and go first.

Karla: 01:02:44

Yeah. So we have been doing a lot of frog call monitoring lately. We've we have a new program here in East Central Illinois where we're monitoring frogs, And we were doing a training, and we we were gonna do it outside, but it was storming.

Karla: 01:02:59

So I was like, okay. I need to get some frog calls to show these folks in order to practice. So there's three ponds in my neighborhood, and I said, okay. I'll go to each one.

Karla: 01:03:09

I'll get a recording so they can try to pick out the frog calls. And these ponds are within a quarter mile radius, not very far from each other, but they all had different things in it. Like, one pond had toads in it, the other two didn't. One pond had bullfrogs in it, the other one didn't, the other one had tree frogs. So it's just like, they're so close together, but also there's something about each of these ponds that these frogs and toads found particularly good about that site, even though they're so close.

Karla: 01:03:41

So it was just kind of I've never really paid attention to it before, but now that I have, I'm just like, oh, well, the tree frogs probably like this pond because there's more trees by it. That kinda makes sense. So that was just kind of an observation I've made lately in my own neighborhood.

Abigail: 01:03:57

Get to be a little detective. Right? Like what you're talking about. Yeah. Kind of ask those questions.

Agustin: 01:04:04

And if I might, this is another thing that I I forgot, but then I relearned when one of my students was working with a project on on tadpoles. But then from these, this allows people to inquire what explains this distribution. And it's not random. And then especially for the tadpoles of toads, how do these toads know that pond, that that paddle is ephemeral? You know, like, cannot Right.

Agustin: 01:04:39

They always use ephemeral bonds, and then you're like, a those? How do they know? Yeah. And what is their perspective of time, distance? Right.

Karla: 01:04:50

Do they have a memory from last year or just the How do they know?

Abigail: 01:04:53

Collective memory, like like monarchs? Right? Oh, interesting. Oh, so cool. What I my instant thought was like, oh, is it like, is there runoff going into one pond and not the other? Was like, is there something about the environmental quality of the ponds difference that is like, you know, it's kinda

Karla: 01:05:13

Maybe maybe one person. Yeah. Maybe one person treats their pond and the other person doesn't, and that kind of makes the the ecology different in each pond. I don't know.

Abigail: 01:05:23

Yeah. So many opportunities to learn. Alright, Agustin. So go ahead and tell me what your everyday observation is this week.

Agustin: 01:05:32

I don't know. That is a very good one. I might have to think. I share the one of the ticks, but then talking. But you know what?

Agustin: 01:05:42

I'm going to just receive or tell you a a mundane thing that I have. This is about, like, one of the factors that I really like of America. And then I was kind of, like, in the in the park the other day, a week ago, and then kind of, like, there were people, like, kids swinging kind of, like, between trees. I don't know how they get the swinging lasso between these trees, but then they were kind of like there just playing. And then there was one kid that that was about to do it, climb up all the way there, and then they just try to go for it.

Agustin: 01:06:23

But then all of sudden, the kid seemed paralyzed. Just couldn't do anything. And this is an event that is not the first thing that I've seen. Then which people like the other kids start encouraging him, start saying, you can do it. And then there is not only his friends.

Agustin: 01:06:43

All of a sudden, other kids go. Like, my kids who don't know this kid go and then try to kind of like encourage the kid to do it, saying it's not going to be fine. But hey, if you kind of like are scared, it's okay to climb back. Don't worry. Just everything is going to be fine.

Agustin: 01:07:02

We will have a blast. Well, then all of a sudden, the kid just got the courage to do it. And the cheer, that authentic cheer that is comes from these kids is something that fills my heart. I've seen it, like, everywhere, from Nebraska to Kentucky, like this episode of kindness from people who don't know and encourage it. It's unique, and and I really like it.

Karla: 01:07:29

That's a great one. I love when observations include children. Well, what about you, Abigail? What is your observation? Yeah.

Abigail: 01:07:41

So I recently went on a hike in the Palos region of Cook County, so that's one of the largest, like, continuous areas of the forest preserves of Cook County. And it's really interesting geologically, but the site that we went to in particular is called Red Gate Woods. And if people are familiar with that site from a historical standpoint, that is the site called Site A of the Manhattan Project where the nuclear reactor was originally created in this area. And it was given the hike was given by a master naturalist who's very passionate about history. And he talked a lot about how, like, the geology of the site was what made it perfect for putting this like, we were like, why are we putting a nuclear test site secret nuclear test site in the Chicagoland area?

Abigail: 01:08:29

And he talked about how because Mount Forest Island was created from the glaciers, it's part of a moraine from the Wisconsin glaciation. And then when the glaciers melted, it broke through in places next to the isle like, next like, in two places for the, moraine, which created Mount Forest Island, which is one of the tallest points in Cook County. And so it was an ideal spot for a lot of indigenous people because higher up, you have you can see around you and defend, and that was the same reasoning for putting Site A on this particular landscape. And then just kind of seeing the that, like, natural geology paired with, like, human alterations of the landscapes and, like, places they had to dig out, And also, it was like about a 100 person small town of the Manhattan Project. And so just all the different combinations of human and natural history combined were just really fascinating to see, and it's not, like, radioactive or anything.

Abigail: 01:09:30

Anybody can go hike that space. You just come across it and you're, that's weird. A like, what am I experiencing here? And it feels also very remote for Cook County because it is a really large continuous forest preserve site. And so I encourage anyone to check it out if you're interested, if you found, you know, like, some of the, like, the Oppenheimer stuff interesting or you just think that our history with with all of those pieces are fascinating, and it's just real like, again, this idea that, like, geology things that happened hundreds of thousands of years ago impacted the choices that we made sixty to a hundred years ago to now is just kind of interesting to think about that, you know, we're not really removed from all of this nature and natural history pieces.

Abigail: 01:10:15

So yeah. Cool. Well, thank you again, Agustin, for just sharing all of your wonderful knowledge and research and the work that you're doing. It's really, really cool. It's really important, and so we just really appreciate you and all of the work that you're doing.

Agustin: 01:10:33

Thank you, Abigail, Thank you, Karla.

Karla: 01:10:35

Yeah. Thank you. I feel like, especially when you talk about toxicology and parasitology, it can be really intimidating because, I don't know, it just gets very confusing and involved very quickly. So it's really nice to hear about it, just in kind of a applicable, simple form.

Abigail: 01:10:52

And ways that apply these basic ecology concepts to like under like, let's think about these ecology concepts and they apply in lots of different formats for understanding the world that we have. So really cool. Yeah. This has been another episode of the Everyday Environment podcast. Check us out next week where we talk with Nathan Alexander about pocket gophers.

Agustin: 01:11:11

Pocket gophers.

Abigail: 01:11:17

This podcast is a University of Illinois Extension production hosted and edited by Abigail Garofalo, Erin Garrett, Amy Lefringhouse, Karla Griesbaum, and Darci Webber. Marketing and communications are by Emily Steele.