Chris Enroth: 00:04

Welcome to the Good Growing Podcast. I am Chris Enroth, horticulture educator with University of Illinois Extension, coming at you from Maccomb, Illinois, and we have got a great show for you today. It is announcement time. Drum roll, please. We're gonna be talking about the Good Growing Grow along part two strikes again back.

Chris Enroth: 00:26

I don't know. We'll come up with we'll we'll workshop some titles here in a bit, but I'm not doing this by myself. I'm joined as always every single week by horticulture educator Ken Johnson in Jacksonville. Hey, Ken.

Ken Johnson: 00:36

Hello, Chris. Should it be a a grow along strikes back.

Chris Enroth: 00:42

Yes. That that has a little bit of a negative, connotation in my head because when the Empire struck back, it didn't go so well for Luke Skywalker. But, you know, he survived. He did lose a hand, but, well, I I I don't wanna lose any body parts this year, Ken.

Ken Johnson: 01:02

Fair enough.

Chris Enroth: 01:03

Okay. And, of course, we are not doing this without horticulture educator, Emily Swihart up in Milan, Illinois. Emily, welcome back to the show.

Emily Swihart: 01:14

Hi, guys. I'm very excited to have the return of Good Growing.

Chris Enroth: 01:19

There you go. The yes. The the grow along. The returns. The grow along.

Emily Swihart: 01:24

Return of the grow along.

Chris Enroth: 01:26

Yes. Oh, there we go. See, that movie ended much better. Yes. Better.

Chris Enroth: 01:31

Yep. Mhmm. Everything got all tied up nicely in the very end, and, we don't talk about, how those movies were changed in the late nineties, to not include the best Ewok music I've ever heard. But, anyway, I digress. Don't talk to me about Star Wars because this will become a Star Wars podcast.

Ken Johnson: 01:54

The, Good Growing after dark.

Chris Enroth: 01:57

Yes. At a galaxy far, far away. Okay. Well, I guess instead of talking about science fiction, we should talk about plants. So, what we are going to do for the show today is, one, we are going to if you're a new listener, if you have not participated with the Grow Along in the past, we'll talk about what that is.

Chris Enroth: 02:16

And then we're gonna dive into a few of the specifics of the different types of plants that we will be covering this year. So, Emily, could you give our listeners slash viewers a kind of a brief overview? What is a grow along, and, you know, why do we choose these plants that we've chosen?

Emily Swihart: 02:36

I'd love to, Chris. So the Grow Along, the original, started last year. We wanted to, engage our wonderful viewers and leaders of Good Growing, sweet about with growing plants. Right? Like, this we're all united around this passion for plants.

Emily Swihart: 02:54

And we have talked many times about how we like to grow unique things. We have engaged with master gardeners and community members, who are adventuresome growers as well. And so we thought, why don't we do this together? So the grow along was born. Right?

Emily Swihart: 03:10

We decided that we were gonna offer last year, we offered six different plants, seeds for starting that, folks could sign up for. They could register online. We would ship you, the seeds, and we would just grow them through the season together. There were a few surveys that we conducted just to gather some information as to how it was going, if people had questions. We checked in with each other, with a couple of different podcasts throughout the summer and the growing months and, got to share successes and failures.

Emily Swihart: 03:42

Some of us had some epic failures last year, and that's okay because that was kind of the point. We were growing new plants, that some of some are all of us had never grown before. We are in different areas of the state. We have different, kind of soil types and growing conditions. And so, we just got to grow along side of each other.

Emily Swihart: 04:02

And I think the most fun part was hearing how our, you know, our grow along, participants bared. So, we decided we would do it again. It was so much fun. We're gonna change up the species that we're growing. We changed a bit of the parameters.

Emily Swihart: 04:18

And so, I like that we refined a few things, and we're gonna, expand our, palette, if you will, for growing options. And, we'll see how it goes again this year.

Chris Enroth: 04:31

Yeah. So think things have changed. I guess, Ken, what last year, we're, like, direct so only. But, Ken, how have we changed things this year now for our grow along?

Ken Johnson: 04:41

Yep. So we still have, quite a few direct so, but we did include some, some things that you will need to start indoors. That just kind of expands the the potential plants, we could have. So, there will be some obviously, you don't have to pick them, but if you have the capability of starting seeds indoors, there will be some that will that will require that. We also shied away from the large seeded items because those are expensive to ship.

Ken Johnson: 05:08

So everything is gonna be smaller seeds, now. So not that it really affected anybody. But

Emily Swihart: 05:16

Well, but not too small. Right? We had a few problems with some of the the mizuna from last year too with teeny tiny little seeds. So I don't think we have anything that's, like, microscopic this year either. We're finding that Goldilocks zone.

Chris Enroth: 05:34

Yes. So I so I think we have we we have more opportunities for folks to to experiment with with maybe doing a little bit of seed starting on your own. So if you haven't done seed starting, you want a couple unique things to try with, this this could be a way to do that. And so we we can we even have a seed starting podcast episode out there. We could probably even link to those, or we can make a whole new one this year.

Chris Enroth: 06:02

So, and trialing some of our new seed that we will be, putting out in the garden. So I yeah. There's there's gonna be a lot of ways that, that we will love to interact with our our fellow gardeners, our growers here, across Illinois and and even throughout the the Midwest here. So in the last year's grow along, yeah, we had people from, multiple states participate. And so we really do focus on Illinois being a Illinois land grant institution, but, we aren't gonna necessarily draw the line.

Chris Enroth: 06:35

I mean, if you're in Hawaii, maybe. You know, we might not ship out to Hawaii. I'm sorry. We'll see what kind of approval we need for that because, there's a pretty tight curtain around Hawaii when it comes to agricultural products because, oh, the invasive species that take hold there, they don't let go very easily.

Emily Swihart: 06:53

But Oh,

Ken Johnson: 06:54

oh, mhmm.

Emily Swihart: 06:55

If we did somehow somehow get approval to go to Hawaii, that could be an interesting podcast location.

Chris Enroth: 07:01

Yes. If anybody has any tours of the Hawaiian Islands, that you could use a group of three roving horticulturists, to talk about, that would be great. Yeah. Take any of that.

Emily Swihart: 07:17

So we'll do registration like we did last year. I want you to just talk about that before we get distracted by all the plants. So we'll do a registration because we need to know where to ship the seeds to. And so folks can, go to the link that's in the show notes. We'll have registration open until March 7.

Emily Swihart: 07:35

Because some of these plants are need to be started early, we wanna get them out to people in time to, you know, start them indoors before then the growing season hits. And so, we're gonna bump up that date just a little bit this year from when we did last year. So March 7, mark your calendars right now, or, just put it in your head if you're driving and listening to this. Please don't worry. I didn't think that.

Emily Swihart: 07:58

Just be safe. But, it'll be on our line online with the link below. We are going to, add a location in for donations. If anybody wants to help support the program, we are, making this available to everybody. So there is no charge to participate, but we do incur a bit of a, an expense for, you know, purchasing the seeds.

Emily Swihart: 08:19

And so if anybody wants to donate, that'll be a new option you see on there. Certainly not required, to participate, but, you'll see that on the registration as well.

Chris Enroth: 08:31

I would donate.

Emily Swihart: 08:34

You wouldn't?

Chris Enroth: 08:34

Now that's that's reverse psychology I'm using right there.

Emily Swihart: 08:42

It is not I it is not required. I really wanna emphasize that. Like, it is not required. But we do have generous, you know, community members too. And so just providing the option, appreciate what anybody, wants to do, whether whether donate or just participate and provide feedback.

Emily Swihart: 09:01

I loved can we talk about that for just a second? Like, we do the surveys. We share some of the podcast stuff. Like, I loved the comments that we got last year. People were, just sharing successes and challenges and, like, the the camaraderie, I thought was it was lovely.

Emily Swihart: 09:20

So before we go into next year, I wanna thank people for last year. It was probably, like, the most fun thing in my summer. And I had a lot of fun last summer, but, like, seeing those comments was, it was a real real joy.

Ken Johnson: 09:36

Yep. I would agree. And there was several people make comments about wanting more, growing information on them. So when we send out the seeds, we will include more information on how to grow stuff as well. So

Chris Enroth: 09:49

But but we are learning right along with you. Just keep in mind with that.

Emily Swihart: 09:55

Yep. Okay. With that, should we talk about what we're gonna be trying to grow this year? And then I guess, ultimately, some of them will be taste testing again. I think that's still the plan.

Emily Swihart: 10:05

I hope it is. Because one of these were going specifically because of the flavor. Get an iron. Do you wanna start with that one? Should we start with the one that we're just

Ken Johnson: 10:18

Yes. Dreading.

Emily Swihart: 10:19

Dreading? Dreading. Yeah. Okay. Can you you introduce it?

Ken Johnson: 10:26

So the first one we have is papalo. And this is one description I saw is, tastes like cilantro, but with a more pronounced soapy taste.

Emily Swihart: 10:39

Yes.

Ken Johnson: 10:39

So I don't know.

Chris Enroth: 10:40

I'm the only one in this group that enjoys cilantro.

Ken Johnson: 10:44

To me, that that sounds like I don't know why you'd wanna grow that. I just might as well just chew on a chew on a bar of soap, but that's okay.

Emily Swihart: 10:52

Yeah. I think it's

Ken Johnson: 10:53

a good one. Says cilantro with arugula and rue. I don't know what rue tastes like, but Mm-mm. It's not not a fan of cilantro. So but I'll Yeah.

Ken Johnson: 11:04

I will grow it for the good of the cause.

Emily Swihart: 11:06

I wanna compare even though I don't like cilantro at all. I I want to get some cilantro. We'll grow some, not as part of the grow along. Just have it as part of our, our public gardens. And I'm gonna try a little bit of that, and I will try this, and see if either tastes more strongly bad.

Emily Swihart: 11:30

So I was looking this up. So, Ken, you had mentioned that you and I are the ones that don't like cilantro, and I think our viewers and, listeners would have heard of this genetic, variation where some of the population does believe that cilantro has a soapy flavor to it. And I once knew more about this, and then I just let that information go because I just avoid, cilantro like the plague. But I thought we should see why. Why you and I are so unique and and special, I guess, along because probably some of our other our viewers.

Emily Swihart: 12:04

And so, it is a genetic mutation that affects your olfactory, receptor genes. And so, it makes you very, sensitive. So we're sensitive, souls can to aldehyde compounds that are in cilantro. Now plants have aldehydes. A lot of plants have aldehyde, compounds in them.

Emily Swihart: 12:29

But this one, the same one that is in cilantro is the one that is used in soap, which is why we think that cilantro tastes like soap because of the olfactory receptors are picking up that same compound. I'm like, well, that it's lovely. Soap.

Chris Enroth: 12:48

Wow. So I remember an article also where they said that the the preference for cilantro can also be a learned behavior or a learned preference, I guess. You can train your tongue or your olfactory to to to like it. Ken says no. Yeah.

Chris Enroth: 13:10

Well Maybe it has to happen

Emily Swihart: 13:11

when you're younger than we are.

Chris Enroth: 13:14

Maybe. I will say I got a lot of bars of soap stuck in my mouth as a child. So Oh. I had older sisters that told me to say things that I really shouldn't say. So and they thought it was funny.

Emily Swihart: 13:26

Be blaming it on them.

Chris Enroth: 13:28

Oh, one of those truth. They they admit it. They admit it.

Emily Swihart: 13:32

Okay. Okay.

Chris Enroth: 13:33

They know what to do with their little brother. Yes. So okay. I'm excited. Yay.

Ken Johnson: 13:41

So so I think with this, this is, more heat tolerant than cilantro. Silantro is more of a cool season. So, you know, if you do really like cilantro, this may be a you got your cilantro in the spring, and then this can take over, into the summer when that cilantro starts, declining and flowering and and stuff. So

Emily Swihart: 14:01

Yeah. It won't bolt when the temperatures get get warmer in the summer months. And so

Chris Enroth: 14:07

And you will not confuse this leaf for a parsley leaf. It does not look like parsley. It's a more wider, rounder, shaped leaf. So you're if you're planting parsley also in the garden, don't worry. These are distinctly different.

Emily Swihart: 14:23

Yeah. They're not even in the same family. That's why I was curious as to why, you know, cilantro and then this this plant also have that that soapy flavor. I thought maybe they're, you know, in the same family and they're not. And so, very distinct, different looking, plants.

Emily Swihart: 14:40

So

Ken Johnson: 14:42

Yeah. And from I I haven't found a really good description of the size. It kinda varies, but several places list you getting several feet tall. So that may be something to consider when you're placing this is the height, and and you can pinch it back and stuff to make it a little more bushy. But I have seen some places say three feet tall, some places say five feet tall.

Ken Johnson: 15:04

So Mhmm. And if it flowers, it has seeds, like dandelion type seeds. So

Emily Swihart: 15:10

Yes.

Ken Johnson: 15:10

It may potentially reseed as well. Yep. Yep.

Emily Swihart: 15:15

And It's a direct sale. Yes. Plant as well. One of ours.

Chris Enroth: 15:20

And if you're furiously writing notes right now, afraid that you might miss something, don't worry on the registration. We'll have these, growing requirements for it. So sun, shade, you know, party, not party, all stuff like that, spacing. So that information will be on the registration.

Emily Swihart: 15:38

Okay. What's next?

Chris Enroth: 15:40

I think this next one is something Ken has grown last year. Ken, what are we looking at here when it comes to, something a little bit more holiday, themed, which I know that's that's your speed is the holiday time frame.

Ken Johnson: 15:59

Yeah. So this is a a sweet pepper called Christmas tree. So this is, it is an edible pepper, but it's very ornamental as well. So this is a kind of a I guess you saw it called dwarf pepper. It gets twelve, eighteen inches tall.

Ken Johnson: 16:12

And when the peppers grow, pop up a picture. The peppers grow upright. It's got a very nice ornamental look. When they first start developing, they're kind of a a creamy white color. They'll go into yellow.

Ken Johnson: 16:23

Some of those, like, purple streaks on them. They'll get into orange and red. And you can eat them at any stage, but when they get really nice dark, kinda deep red color, they are incredibly sweet. I think it's probably the sweetest pepper I've ever had. So when you eat them a little earlier, they taste more like a green pepper.

Ken Johnson: 16:40

But this is one we grew last year. And I think we will probably grow this forever and ever as long as we can find seeds.

Emily Swihart: 16:50

I like the idea of a really sweet pepper. I whole family are we're very excited about this one because we really like that, sweet pepper flavor. And it is really pretty. I think it's I might honestly, we've downsized our garden, and so I have been thinking about putting some of these, unique to us plants in our ornamental landscape. This might be one of them.

Emily Swihart: 17:15

We'll see.

Ken Johnson: 17:16

Yep. I think that's what fit in well. We've done one more edible landscaping.

Chris Enroth: 17:22

Mhmm. Yeah.

Emily Swihart: 17:22

They What about in a container?

Ken Johnson: 17:24

Yeah. I think it would be fine. We grew ours in the ground, but I think, yeah, it's it's not a terribly big plant. So as long as you've I mean, I wouldn't put in a really small pot. But if you get a a decent sized pot, it should be fine in there.

Emily Swihart: 17:35

I cut you off, Chris. What were you gonna say? Sorry. Oh, it

Chris Enroth: 17:43

wasn't important. Off it just fluttered off like a yeah. Like a wisp of cloud. Yeah. No worries.

Emily Swihart: 17:57

This does need to be started early. This would not be a direct sow. This is fifty five days to maturity, but that is, of course, after you plant them out, after the risk of frost has passed. And so you would start your peppers indoors. I think usually the package says four to six weeks, but I like to make them a little more robust.

Emily Swihart: 18:17

I usually start them about six to eight weeks. I'm gonna care for them a little longer. How about you guys?

Ken Johnson: 18:23

Depends on when I get my act together. Usually, yeah, that usually, you do more than six to eight week. Yeah. But because this is a little quicker turnaround, if you I think if you did four, six weeks, you'd be fine still.

Chris Enroth: 18:35

I okay. The I thought of it. So the thing that I like about this is that you have a sweet ornamental pepper. Whereas the ornamental peppers that are sold as, like, annuals, bedding plants, those I think they're spicy. They might be sweet.

Chris Enroth: 18:53

I I don't know. I've never tried them, but I I've never been interested in in wanting to eat them because they're usually skinny and, not as appealing. But this thing, not only does it look nice, it it just looks like a good pepper, like something you would get at a grocery store.

Emily Swihart: 19:09

Yeah. I don't I do not like spice. Like, I I'm a true Midwesterner. Like, black pepper is spicy. Right?

Emily Swihart: 19:16

And so, I like these sweet peppers, so I've never tried. Mhmm. I don't dare to try the ornamental peppers, but I I think you're right. I think, generally, they are labeled as being on the more spicy side. And the upright ones, generally.

Emily Swihart: 19:30

At least I that's what I have in my brain. Like, to me, that says spicy, but I like that this is. Alright. Can't wait. That'll be fun.

Emily Swihart: 19:39

Thanks, Ken. Alright. Can we talk about the melon? I think this one might have been one that I advocated for, something fierce. So this is the, kahari melon.

Emily Swihart: 19:51

And so this one's supposed to be easy to grow. Before we'll try to find a picture to put in here. None of us have grown, this one before. What drew me to it, we're just gonna be honest, is it is gorgeous. Like, the coloration is, like, an orange and cream and white stripe is what it looks like, kinda going around, the melon.

Emily Swihart: 20:12

And I just I just want to see that ripen, in my garden. And so that was what made me click on the link. And now, just reading about it is that it is, built as having world class flavor. It's it's sort of like a honeydew, hip of melon, and so it was supposed to have that sweet flavor with the green, the fruit inside. And so, I like that.

Emily Swihart: 20:37

I think people expect the orange kinda cantaloupe, insides, and I like having that surprise with that green. And so, gonna be nice, you know, if we get some out of it, it'll be really lovely, to cut into. Smaller fruits, that was appealing. I'm going to try to trellis this up and grow it off of the ground and really make it more of a vertical element in the landscape. I do that sometimes with some smaller, some of our smaller vining, fruits.

Emily Swihart: 21:06

So that's my intention. Not too not too bad. Full sun, direct seed, pretty easy, to grow. What am I missing?

Ken Johnson: 21:16

Yeah. I say I haven't found anything on how big it gets. But since it's a cucurbit, I would assume you're gonna need. Need some space unless you're gonna travel. So I think the fruit get about two pounds.

Ken Johnson: 21:28

So, yeah, depending on how strong those vines are, you may or may not need to support those fruit when they're developing, if you do it just.

Emily Swihart: 21:37

It also, notes that it produces a lot. And so I really find that appealing when I'm growing. Some of the, melons and squash that we grow don't overly produce, you know, for as much space as they take up in a garden. I really like to make sure that they're gonna produce well, both to, you know, feed the family, but then also to donate. That's a, kind of a pillar of extension as we like to help support local food, banks and people in need.

Emily Swihart: 22:06

And so I wanna make sure that was one of the appealing, aspects of this one is that it it seems to produce a lot, and so we can have plenty to share.

Chris Enroth: 22:15

The revenge of the lemon cucumber. So it's back again with the return.

Emily Swihart: 22:20

I think I advocated for that one too. Okay. We're Yes. I I'm on brand.

Chris Enroth: 22:27

Hey. I love melons. I loved cucumbers last year too, and, well, you know, we'll see what happens

Emily Swihart: 22:33

with my dog. You didn't. Mhmm.

Chris Enroth: 22:35

Yeah.

Emily Swihart: 22:38

This is what I believe also, and I'm having a hard time remembering where I saw it when I was reading about it. And I think it also said that, it was a smaller, seed, like, seed heart. Like, it just it didn't have so many seeds in the middle. It was more, edible fruit than you know, sometimes you cut into melons or whatever, and it's just like all seeds, and you're like, well, this was, you know, disappointing. I think this one has has supposedly has more flesh that you can eat versus the seeds.

Emily Swihart: 23:08

We'll

Ken Johnson: 23:09

see. Only one way to find out.

Emily Swihart: 23:12

Yeah. I like that attitude, Ken. I like it. Alright. What's up next?

Emily Swihart: 23:19

We've got quite a few things, so I'm gonna keep us moving. We've got more this year to choose from, so let's keep going.

Ken Johnson: 23:25

I think the next one on the list is black creme tomato. I think it was another one of you. That was another one of your choices, wasn't it?

Chris Enroth: 23:32

Wasn't it the description of the flavor that you seem to like? Is that right, Emily? It's described as smoky?

Emily Swihart: 23:40

Yes. Yes. I don't know what that is gonna be like when, you know, it can fruition, but, yes, it was described as having a good smoky flavor. Tomatoes have a wide range of flavors, and I really enjoy trying them all. I didn't always like tomatoes, but I have really grown to love them.

Emily Swihart: 24:00

They're one of my favorite things to grow and to eat out of the garden. And so, I yeah. The smokey flavor. I don't know what that means in terms of tomato. So we're gonna give it a shot.

Emily Swihart: 24:11

Also, the color doesn't hurt it. It's this really beautiful and kinda purple, tomato color. And so red purple fruit. So, I I like a a dark rich colored, tomato. So

Chris Enroth: 24:25

A little anthocyanins.

Emily Swihart: 24:27

Yeah. Yep. So this one, we would also have to, start indoors, start early, and grow out. So, we'll get those seeds, shipped out to people. Start them, you know, right alongside those peppers.

Emily Swihart: 24:40

I do. I always start them altogether because I don't have time to speak just time out different plantings. So I just plant everything at the same time and, works pretty well. These are indeterminate tomatoes. We should make a a note, to folks that these are indeterminate, which means that the plants will, will continue to grow and grow and grow, throughout the growing season.

Emily Swihart: 25:02

So you'll need ample space, and support likely for them or, you'll have to do some hard pruning, which, is possible, but oftentimes, this is not done. So I guess I, based on experience, just recommend always planning on supporting your indeterminate tomatoes versus counting on yourself to prune them.

Chris Enroth: 25:23

Yeah.

Emily Swihart: 25:23

I like yeah. I like indeterminate tomatoes too, though, because they do produce throughout the year. It's not just one harvest. That works for some folks, but this one will continue to produce throughout the year. And so, you'll probably if it's a good year for tomatoes and we have success with these, we'll all be tired of them by the end of the season.

Emily Swihart: 25:46

But then we can donate them. But, I I don't know. I'm I make salsas with our tomatoes, and so I know this is not a paste. This is a slicing tomato, so it's gonna be a little it says it's gonna be a little more, juicy than you would have with your, like, paste tomatoes, but I don't mind. Especially if it has a smoky flavor, like, that's gonna be I don't know.

Emily Swihart: 26:07

I'm really excited about that. I'm just gonna gonna hold on to that excitement until I get to try them. We'll see.

Chris Enroth: 26:13

This doesn't taste like smoke

Emily Swihart: 26:14

at all.

Ken Johnson: 26:16

What if

Emily Swihart: 26:17

I look at the campfire when I'm eating my tomatoes?

Chris Enroth: 26:19

That's what I feel about coffee too. It's like, this does taste like like burned wood. I don't want it. Correct.

Emily Swihart: 26:26

Correct. Jet fuel or nothing. Okay. Anything do you guys have anything to add about the tomato? You got any thoughts?

Emily Swihart: 26:38

No?

Chris Enroth: 26:38

No. I'd say save the seed for this, and then, you know, you can plant a lot of these. You can save seed of a lot of these crops that we're talking about this year and and use them year after year.

Ken Johnson: 26:50

Yep. Yeah. So probably, you know, assuming gets you in trouble. I think assume probably most people have grown tomatoes before, so I never familiar with what they're gonna get themselves into.

Emily Swihart: 27:03

So by my count, that wraps up our edible Yeah. Portion there.

Chris Enroth: 27:08

Quasi edible.

Emily Swihart: 27:10

I know. I know. It's They're

Chris Enroth: 27:11

everything's edible as Ken would say.

Ken Johnson: 27:14

Oh, dear. Everything's edible once. Yes.

Chris Enroth: 27:20

But so these the vegetables, the fruits, things that will be growing here, they are, yes, definitely edible. They are also good looking. I think we've all we've picked as usual. A lot of the criteria is these have to be aesthetically pleasing vegetable crops. The next ones in our list here are also sometimes edible.

Chris Enroth: 27:41

There's a few of them that you've definitely seen us actually eat on the show before. Mhmm. And then a few of the others, they're pretty. We want pretty plants also growing alongside our vegetable crops. So, this all too familiar one, here is, backed by popular demand that we all taste tested last year.

Chris Enroth: 28:05

And then as we felt the tingling and the numbing sensation throughout our mouths, professed that was, yeah, not bad, we're all gonna be growing toothache plant, as part of the grow along. And so if people want to see, what it's like for people to actually consume the flower buds of the toothache plant, you can, check out that episode, down below in the show notes. But, yeah, toothache plant should be a a fun one to grow. I've tried to grow it a few times. I've not been successful.

Chris Enroth: 28:35

When I get to that seed starting stage, I think this is the one where we might have smaller seeds than a lot of the others. So, we'll all have to get our, you know, magnifying glasses out when we start sorting seeds into packets for sending out. But these are probably the smaller seeds, so don't sneeze when you're planting these.

Emily Swihart: 28:57

Yep. I take back what I said because I forgot about the toothache plant. Yeah. We'll have a few actual small seeds, and this mint would be one of them. That, I'm excited to do this because I some of the things that I'm growing too, I guess, the criteria is so I can give my kids different experiences.

Emily Swihart: 29:15

And I think that we talked about it in that episode, how it is just really neat what nature can do. And so, yeah, if you wanna share the experience of having excess drool with your family, this would be the plant for you.

Chris Enroth: 29:30

That's right. Check those salivary glands, make sure they work.

Ken Johnson: 29:36

Yeah. Yep. And this is one where I think we've kinda figured it needs a lot more moisture, at least for me than I was giving it, which is why I think my plants struggled last year at times. So, make sure you keep up with watering, especially if you have it in a pot. Likes more moist conditions.

Chris Enroth: 29:55

Now would this one benefit from a heat mat? Because I know, like, peppers and tomatoes, all those also benefit from heat mats. Do you start your seeds with heat mats, Ken, or are they just in the house on their own?

Ken Johnson: 30:07

They're just in the house on their own.

Chris Enroth: 30:09

Okay.

Ken Johnson: 30:09

Yeah. I don't use it. But there, I think I'm not even sure we have a heat mat at home to use. But it's I mean, our seeds are in our dining room, so it's Mhmm. Relatively warm.

Ken Johnson: 30:21

We're not in the basement or anything.

Chris Enroth: 30:23

So I'm in the basement, so I'll, usually, I try to add a little bit of bottom heat when I got some of my summer veggies seeds going. Only for seeds sprouting. Once they sprout, take that heat mat off of there.

Ken Johnson: 30:35

So the light

Emily Swihart: 30:36

will help. Oh, go ahead.

Ken Johnson: 30:38

Yeah. Ideal temperature is 70 degrees, and there is surface. So so they need I need that light to germinate.

Emily Swihart: 30:46

Mhmm. Alright. Tooth eggplant.

Chris Enroth: 30:51

Pretty. You can eat it. Another pretty you can eat is, I think you grew this one last year. Right, Emily? The dark purple opal basil.

Emily Swihart: 31:04

We did. Yes. We grew this with some of our master gardeners, and, I'm excited to share it with everybody because it's beautiful. It has this really dark foliage. So that is often, marketed as something for, cut flower bouquets, and it certainly, adds just, like, fragrance.

Emily Swihart: 31:23

It it's a basil, and so it still has that really lovely, at least I think, basil aroma to it. It just when you cut it and you, like, bump it, you know, like, in a cut flower bouquet, you can it just you smell it right away. It smells like basil. And there were many a time when we were making bouquets and people would make comments about the aroma. So it has that.

Emily Swihart: 31:45

And it is it is grown for, like I said, that dark foliage. This is a cut and come again plant. Like, the more you harvest, the more you're gonna get off of it, which is, really appealing, but it's also edible. It it doesn't have I don't think it has as strong as a basil flavor as some of the other, cultivars, but that's okay if you're not a huge fan of basil. You can get a little bit of it without, you know, going overboard.

Emily Swihart: 32:13

And so, yeah, this is edible and beautiful. The, flowers are not, when it does flower, we let it flower at the end of the season. They're more petite. They're they're shorter in stature than, some of the other cultivars like the green basils that we've grown. Now that is just anecdotal.

Emily Swihart: 32:35

I don't I haven't done a lot of comparisons, but it just seemed like they were more, in the style of, like, a a smaller flower head that fit nicely into a bouquet. And so I am excited. I insisted that we grow this again just because I wanted to, and I thought everybody should have the experience of it, or at least have the option. You all can choose if you wanna grow it or not if you like basil, but, really, really lovely.

Ken Johnson: 33:02

Did you all direct seed this or start it indoors?

Emily Swihart: 33:05

So that's funny you asked because I'm trying to remember. I think we did. I don't think we started this. Typically, I do start my basil early, and I I think we direct seeded it, into our raised beds. And it's just the where they are at is warm anyways.

Emily Swihart: 33:27

It's kind of an alleyway, and it just is a really warm, sight and basil does like, like, that warmth. And so, I think that really helped support the growth of it. I should have looked back in my notes. I apologize.

Ken Johnson: 33:44

I think people usually do both. I just Mhmm. Usually start mine indoors just to get a jump. But

Chris Enroth: 33:49

Yeah.

Ken Johnson: 33:49

I think Basil is one you can you can get away with starting or direct seating Yep. If you don't have the the capability to start indoors.

Emily Swihart: 33:58

I have direct seeded at home. I know that. I can't remember what we did last year, though, for the for our growing beds. So, yeah, maybe we'll do both. Maybe we'll we could divide and conquer.

Emily Swihart: 34:07

Some of us started early and some of us direct seed, see how it goes. Pinch, I would say too. So with some of these these cut flowers too, you'll see, like, pinching back encourages, reblooming, but it also keeps your plants more dwarf size. And so some of the plants like, these can get really big too, but if you just keep harvesting it, it does kinda keep the size in check. And so, I would encourage people to think about where they're growing it and what kind of, in involvement they're gonna have or how they're gonna use these plants, and the regularity with which they're gonna prune on on the plants size wise.

Emily Swihart: 34:42

You could get it away with the smaller site if you're really gonna keep, pruning. Otherwise, give it a little bit of space because they can get pretty big.

Ken Johnson: 34:51

Yeah. On to the next one? Yeah. So next one we've got is a Celosia. I think, Chris, this was your selection, wasn't it?

Chris Enroth: 35:01

It was purely for the name. I mean, it's pretty too. Actually, I think we had talked about this as we're selecting these plants. Like, if we were designing a bouquet, this would it would blend really well with the dark purple local basil because this is also like a deep maroon burgundy colored, leafed celosia. It has like a has it's a very kind of dark red wine color to the leaves, and then it has these flower spikes on it that are bright rosy red color.

Chris Enroth: 35:34

So, you know, do not credit me as someone who's good at designing bouquets, but I picked this Celosha because of the name, and the name is megapunk. I love it. I'm gonna grow this one. So this is a a very similar type, I think, growing habit, probably growing conditions as you would get with your basil. And it it provides some of the similar types of color as the basil would too, except for the those those really bright red flower stalks, I think, are really gonna stand out, amongst that darker foliage.

Chris Enroth: 36:08

So I I had to go with megapunk on this one. We were looking at a lot of different celosias also. So yeah. I guess people have their own favorite celosias out there. Feel free to comment below.

Chris Enroth: 36:18

But this is, you you you can get me with a good name, so you got me.

Emily Swihart: 36:25

So celosia is, a really interesting, species. So the one that we you chose, Chris, is, like, a wheat variety. The it's more like a it could also be like a plume. Although, generally, when plume is identified as the bloom type, it's a little bit bigger. These are a little more, the blooms are a little more petite, than what I generally think of as the bloom.

Emily Swihart: 36:51

But they're that same, kind of form. There's also the coxcomb celosia. So people are, like, thinking back to, maybe a plant of, you know, their childhood or whatnot, like, those are really those have been very popular, like, a heritage type of plant. They're still very popular, but those have, like, that brain kind of form. Coxcomb is another descriptor that has been used for that bloom.

Emily Swihart: 37:18

Those get much bigger. These are more, there are more of them and they are smaller, and easier to use in a bouquet. But, yes, this this color looks really, really exciting and really amazing. You said you weren't a floral designer. I bet you could come up with a really cool design with them because, like, that contrast, like, that really dark you know, like, this good design has has a good contrast with the you know, within it.

Emily Swihart: 37:45

And so I don't know. I just see this being grown. We've got a couple of plants that I could see this getting paired with. But with the basil and, with some, like, pink hues. You know, like some pink blooms that are a little bit more robust, and it could be more of the focal point, and these would be kind of the fillers and, like, kind of frame it.

Emily Swihart: 38:04

But, just a moody bouquet. Like, I just, like I think that is gonna be really cool where it's just like, I'm in a mood. Like, I love flowers, but, like, kinda don't mess with me bouquet.

Chris Enroth: 38:14

And, Yes.

Emily Swihart: 38:15

I'm I'm here for that. I mean, it's mega punk. She's gotta have a little attitude. So

Chris Enroth: 38:21

That's right. I think the this will also holds up even dried. And so Yes. You can use this in a, like, a a really neat late summer bouquet or a fall bouquet. You know, there's a lot of interesting things that you can do, with with the foliage and the flower plumes on this one.

Emily Swihart: 38:39

Yes. And it is recommended that you start celosia indoors, and so about six weeks you know, again, around that the same time we're planting the tomatoes and the, possible basil and the, peppers. You would wanna plant this, start this inside as well. It's a warm season crop. And so

Ken Johnson: 38:59

Yeah. You you can't start it outdoors, but and that's usually two weeks after your last frost. I think I start for this month's twelve to fourteen weeks to bloom. So keep that in mind if you're gonna put it direct seed.

Chris Enroth: 39:12

Mhmm. Yep. And then I guess as well, thank you. And as people are choosing these plants from our registration pages, know you don't have to do all of them. And maybe you do need to select based upon, do you have the, space necessary to start seed indoors, or, you know, are you only gonna be able to sow outside direct seed?

Chris Enroth: 39:34

Just be mindful of that as you you pick these plants out. So we want you to be successful.

Emily Swihart: 39:41

Alright. Can we talk about a plant that I think we could pair with these this Moody bouquet?

Chris Enroth: 39:45

Let's do it.

Emily Swihart: 39:46

About our cosmos. So, we chose a cosmos. Another one that is probably familiar to many people listening or watching, is kind of a heritage plant. Cosmos have been around for a very long time, very popular. The one we chose, though, is, called seashells mix.

Emily Swihart: 40:04

And so it has really unique, petals on it. And so, typically, you would think of cosmos as like this open faced, flower. Well, this has that except the petals are rounded. They have, like, more of a vase shape to them. Really, really unique kind of shape to them.

Emily Swihart: 40:21

So I've never grown this one. I've just grown traditional cosmos before. These are you know, cosmos are another, cut and come again. They get really tall, really long stems, give you a lot of blooms for, you know, per plant. But, I think I just am envisioning these cosmos stuck into a bouquet and just, like, the bright magenta colors that we've got here.

Emily Swihart: 40:44

So it's white, kind of a light pink, and then a magenta. We don't know what you'll get. It's a mix. And so when you order when you sign up for this one, just know that we're not guaranteeing you all of the colors. We don't know what you're getting.

Emily Swihart: 40:57

We don't know what we'll be getting. Hopefully, you'll get a little bit of each, but, I could just see these these bigger size blooms. You know, they're usually, you know, three inches or so tucked in and amongst the more delicate flowers of the basil and or the celosia against that really dark foliage, I think, will be really cool.

Ken Johnson: 41:18

Yeah. The the petals remind me a little bit of, like, a think of, like, a a foxglove flower. It's just this long tubular. Yeah. But this is just the petals all around.

Ken Johnson: 41:27

So

Emily Swihart: 41:29

That's a good description.

Ken Johnson: 41:30

Excited to see what they look like in person.

Chris Enroth: 41:33

Yeah.

Emily Swihart: 41:35

With cosmos too, you can start them early. I usually don't. You can direct sow after the last, frost. They grow pretty quickly, establish pretty quickly, pretty easy to grow. So, if you don't want to do any indoors, starting seeds indoors or you just run out of room, in your space, this could be one.

Emily Swihart: 41:56

That's what I sometimes do is I just run out of room. I intend on starting it early, and then I don't have enough space. I'm like, well, you can be direct seated. So that's what, usually ends up happening. But, again, you could start it early.

Emily Swihart: 42:10

They transplant just fine, but, you don't have to. And they're really lovely for, pollinators too. Like, mine always have so many, insects on them. Butterflies, bees, in particular. But just really a a nice addition to a garden.

Emily Swihart: 42:29

So so, Yeah.

Chris Enroth: 42:31

I think I'm

Ken Johnson: 42:32

oh, good.

Emily Swihart: 42:33

Go ahead. Oh, I would say they are larger, though. They get pretty big.

Chris Enroth: 42:36

Mhmm.

Emily Swihart: 42:37

And so just be aware of that. Five foot or so.

Chris Enroth: 42:42

Yes. To that point, you know, to both of your points, actually, right there, pollinators and getting a little bit larger. I think I know where I'm gonna put this in my kind of my pollinator patch where I have several native pale ants that sort of grow and intermingle and intertwine, because being a cosmos bipinatus, bipinatus usually has a much more kind of delicate fine textured, foliage and stems. And so kinda thinking maybe a little bit of extra support by having some plants around it so that it doesn't get flattened by the wind or, my dogs, might probably help this plant out a a little bit because I I've always really loved, like, cosmos biponatus because of that fine texture. And it it reminds me, a a lot of, like, the tickseed coreopsis, like, the very fine textured leaves.

Chris Enroth: 43:34

I've always really loved that, those, like, you know, very delicate looking stems and leaves, and structure to that plant. So I do like I do enjoy me some cosmos bipinatus.

Emily Swihart: 43:47

Well, I think you'll like seashells. Mhmm. Alright. What else do we have?

Ken Johnson: 43:52

We got

Chris Enroth: 43:53

Oh.

Ken Johnson: 43:53

One more. Zinnia.

Emily Swihart: 43:56

Yes. Last but certainly not least.

Ken Johnson: 43:59

So this one is old Mexico. I don't remember. Just a joint decision. I don't remember if anybody

Emily Swihart: 44:05

Thanks. I have no memory of selecting this, but I'm here for it.

Chris Enroth: 44:09

I I we we had the zinnia page open. We are going back and forth. We had one zinnia species selected, but then we all kinda looked at old Mexico and said, no. I really like that one. That's Mhmm.

Chris Enroth: 44:21

That's a good one.

Ken Johnson: 44:23

Yes. This one so the description of the flowers is a burnished copper tipped with a gold. It's kinda got this reddish orangeish center, with yellow tips on the petals there. Nice kinda open flower. I mean, to me, it would I mean, if you're gonna compare it to another plant, like blanket flower, looks similar to Yeah.

Ken Johnson: 44:42

The blanket flower.

Emily Swihart: 44:44

Mhmm.

Chris Enroth: 44:45

And, all American selection winner in 1962. So it's been around for a while. No. It's a good

Emily Swihart: 44:52

Goldie but a goodie.

Chris Enroth: 44:53

That's it. Yes. And this is one of those where it's usually recommended that you sow this outside Mhmm. Instead of starting indoors. So a a really good one for filling in some of that extra space in the garden after you've gotten it all planted it out.

Emily Swihart: 45:10

This one is, also just smaller in stature. So zinnias come in a lot of different sizes now. There's some that are more compact and more like, meant more for the front of a planting bed, like a border, style. And then there's the ones that are more for cut flowers, which are really tall and, probably these really long stems. This, I think, is more of a compact kinda in between, I would say in between size.

Emily Swihart: 45:35

It says one foot to a foot and a half. So not overly large, but, will do, you know, cut and come again as well. So the more you harvest, the more blooms you'll get. And so you can, grow it in the garden as a cut flower, or you could grow it in the, like, a perennial bed, and just harvest blooms off of it so you have blooms all year long. Like, that is one strategy that you can employ to just make sure that you always have something really bright and sunshiny growing in the garden is to harvest, these flowers, and they'll produce more.

Emily Swihart: 46:07

But, but a little smaller than your kinda, like, heirloom or maybe the more traditional, zinnias that we have grown in the past. These are, also really tolerant though of, like, dry conditions too. So we've had some plants that were like, well, we might have to provide supplemental water. Then these are hardy. They are tough.

Emily Swihart: 46:26

Of course, if we have a severe drought, we'll have to provide some supplemental water, but they're nothing like, I'm thinking of, like, the year I grew celery where it was, like, really dry and celery really likes water. And so I was out there, like, all the time. My zinnias next door to it in the garden were doing just fine without the supplemental water.

Chris Enroth: 46:47

The other thing I like about this zinnia and I I like about all of these particular types of zinnias, the single flower zinnia. I don't know why. Double flower zinnia, I'm just like, man, that's a lot of flower. Like, it's it's a little you're you're a little over the top there, zinnia, but this one is the solitaire the the single flower. It's not a a double flower type.

Chris Enroth: 47:08

I just like those. I like seeing that open disc. Something about that I enjoy.

Ken Johnson: 47:14

Butterflies like them too.

Chris Enroth: 47:16

There you go. Part butterfly. The mothman.

Emily Swihart: 47:21

I like them all. I'll just go on record. Next year, we might have a double because there's really cool colors that are coming out.

Chris Enroth: 47:28

Mhmm. There is. Yes. Really nice. Got a cool name like megapunk, hey.

Chris Enroth: 47:33

I'd I'd grow that zinnia.

Emily Swihart: 47:35

Mhmm. Yeah. They do need I think they do need to work on some of the names of the zinnias. I think they're just resting on their laurels as it being a zinnia. They're not overly creative.

Emily Swihart: 47:46

Like, giant coral. I grew that one last year. I mean, sure. But it's not mega punk.

Chris Enroth: 47:54

Can do better.

Emily Swihart: 47:55

Yes. Do better. Need some seashells or we need some megapunk or some old Mexico. Make me romances me with it.

Ken Johnson: 48:05

Start from zinnia breeding.

Emily Swihart: 48:07

There you go.

Chris Enroth: 48:11

That's year three of the grow along.

Emily Swihart: 48:14

Spoiler alert. We're breeding

Chris Enroth: 48:16

Start breeding your own yes. Zinnias, hostas, daylilies. You name it. We're gonna start breeding them.

Emily Swihart: 48:24

Well, that's it. That's I mean, that's it. Well, we have nine.

Chris Enroth: 48:29

Mhmm. And

Emily Swihart: 48:30

that that you guys was us showing restraint. We we had a lot more, but that's okay.

Chris Enroth: 48:37

It's a long list. Mhmm. Yeah.

Emily Swihart: 48:40

Yeah. Yep.

Chris Enroth: 48:42

So well, that was a lot of great information about the different plants that are going to be available to you for our grow along, for this year in 2025. Now, we would love to offer seed to everybody, but we only have so much, to give away. So the registration numbers are limited. So once this, episode drops, you know, the registration will be open. Get there as soon as you can.

Chris Enroth: 49:09

As Emily said though, if you're driving, wait till you get home and before you start, doing any of that, registration stuff. And, we will send you seed to get it started indoors or outdoors depending upon, which ones you order and your setup. Well, the Good Growing Podcast is a production of University of Illinois Extension edited this week by Ken Johnson. Hey. Thanks, Ken, for editing today's podcast.

Chris Enroth: 49:33

Do appreciate it. And thank you, Emily, for hanging out with us today and chatting all things, good good growing grow along. It should roll right off the tongue by now.

Emily Swihart: 49:45

It's been my pleasure. And, yeah, we can we can keep working on the name, but, I really appreciate having, everybody participate. It's gonna be I mean, it's February right now, but, growing season is coming up quick. So, I'm getting excited.

Ken Johnson: 50:00

Yes. Thank you both. I'm looking forward to this. I have to find a place to squeeze this stuff into my garden, but I think I can do it. And let's do this again next week.

Chris Enroth: 50:14

Oh, we shall do this again next week. This warm weather that we experienced last week in January and February has really thrown me for a loop. So, you know, I'm already, like, getting ready, itching to get out in the garden. So, we'll have a garden bite for you next week. Ken's gotta teach some farmers how to grow tree fruit or something.

Chris Enroth: 50:34

You know? You know, tasty, delicious stuff like that. Important things. So, Ken, we'll miss you. But we'll have a garden bite for you next week, folks.

Chris Enroth: 50:41

So listeners, thank you for doing what you do best in that is listening. Or if you're watching us on YouTube, watching. And as always, keep on growing.

Emily Swihart: 50:59

Alright. I gotta get that registration done.