Chris Enroth: 00:04

Welcome to the Good Gwen podcast. I am Chris Enroth, horticulture educator with University of Illinois Extension, coming at you from Macomb, Illinois, and we've got a great show for you today. We are delving into houseplants, but not just any houseplant, the plant of the year according to the National Garden Bureau, the monsteras. And you know I'm not doing this by myself. I am joined as always every single week by horticulture educator Ken Johnson in Jacksonville.

Chris Enroth: 00:30

Hey, Ken.

Ken Johnson: 00:32

Hello, Chris. Should be interesting. Have you, you spent thousands of dollars on one of these?

Chris Enroth: 00:38

I have not. I think I missed the boat on this one here. Boy, if only I had that crystal ball that would show me that these plants were gonna be so valuable. Maybe I would have done something different, with, you know, going from an undergraduate. I would have just gotten right into houseplant sales.

Ken Johnson: 01:00

Yeah. I think I think, fortunately, now that the the craze has died down a little bit after the pandemic, they're a little more affordable than they than they once were. Monstera.

Chris Enroth: 01:11

That that is true. Yes. So I I'm curious, Ken. I mean, I I don't have much experience with Monstera. I've never owned one, and they're they're can be rather large, but we'll talk about that.

Chris Enroth: 01:25

What do you have any, experience? Do you have any memories, of have of Monstera in your past?

Ken Johnson: 01:35

I bought one in anticipation of the show a month or two ago, And I'm not doing a good job with it. It's it's not looking very happy, but I don't have our house is not that great for for house plants. Our our south facing windows are kinda small, not very wide. So we don't have very good places to put houseplants that need a lot of light.

Chris Enroth: 02:04

Well, I, yes. We'll we'll we will dive into care and and maybe the, what not to do as Ken would say, here in terms of care of the Monstera. I but but, yeah, I I I can't really pull from much. So we we did a lot of reading before the show. You know, my my memories of Monstero stem mainly from, like, shopping mall atriums, with, you know, the fountains and all the house plants, of of shopping malls, which, to all the younglings out there, you know, before there was, you know, online shopping, we used to have to go in person and and, you know, these businesses spend lots of money on having really pretty indoor, plant plant displays.

Chris Enroth: 02:47

So, Yeah. I I I feel like there's that that's what I'm pulling from, just those I remember seeing monsteras as a as a young child, and always thinking that's a cool looking plant. That's about all I got in terms of actually being in the presence of one.

Ken Johnson: 03:03

Yeah. I remember the house, the plants, and the mold. I don't I guess I never paid close enough attention to really know or even remember what was in there. Better my memory is fading, one of the two,

Chris Enroth: 03:15

Herbosa. Fading for all of us, Ken. Not the ultimate. That's fading. Yeah.

Chris Enroth: 03:21

Well, these plants, they they just to me, it reminds me of I I I feel like I've seen these in old movies from the seventies and the sixties. You know, I wanna be like, oh, yeah. I saw that plant in the movie Logan's Run or something, you know, way back when. I I just feel like these are old fashioned plants to me. Like like, I I feel like I've I I saw them long time ago in a a grainy colored photograph.

Ken Johnson: 03:49

Yeah. We've been in the, I guess, in the plant trade, at least in, like, botanic gardens in Europe for couple hundred years probably.

Chris Enroth: 03:57

Mhmm. So so I guess if we maybe we should probably learn a little bit more about the background or the history of this plant, because I know there was definitely confusion with it when it first was discovered and and then brought into, kind of the the taxonomic world of of how we classify plants. So, Ken, can you tell me a little bit about the history of good old monstera? And we're talking about multiple plants here too, like a genus of plants. Yes.

Ken Johnson: 04:26

Yes. So let me find my article here. So this is coming from so this is a revision of Monsteris. This is like a taxonomic paper, from 1977, but it gives a little bit of the history, of the plant. So it's, first appeared in western literature in 1693.

Ken Johnson: 04:48

So that's when it was first described, by French botanist Charles Plumiere. He was talking about the vegetation of Martinique, and he called what we now know as monstera, arum, heterosium, amplis, folius, perfaratus. I guess, before we get into the binomial nomenclatures. So we've got, like, five different names there. And that, then morphed into Linnaeus when he was doing his classification, trachnotium, and it's it's just kind of bounced all over the place.

Ken Johnson: 05:24

1763 was the first time monstera was used, for the name by someone named Adanson. And monstera adesoniae, which we'll talk about later, is actually named, after him. Some of these were named split described as philodendron, and they've been taken in and out of all kinds of different things. And there was a newer classification that just came out last year. And I didn't stop and count how many species they have in here because it's a 200 page article.

Ken Johnson: 05:55

But at a lot of places, I've seen the, like, 60 plus species of monstera out there. So it's you know, people probably familiar with with one or two of the species, but there is a lot, of them out there.

Chris Enroth: 06:12

Yeah. So I I I guess if we dive more specifically into where do they come from, I mean, we you know, from the sixteen hundreds, you know, we've we've at least been able to describe them in literature. But where does this, plant hail from in this blue marble of ours?

Ken Johnson: 06:35

So I get for the probably ones that people are gonna be growing are Central, South America. I think they go to extend out into South America. So but you have our tropical rainforest type areas. And which most of our house plants, when we think of a lot of them, are from the tropics usually in the lower canopy. You know, they're not as which is why they do well in indoors because they don't necessarily need that bright full sunlight.

Ken Johnson: 07:03

They're used to growing on forest floors, and things like that. And Monstera is no exception to that.

Chris Enroth: 07:10

Yeah. And and the way that it grows, I mean, it it again, being sort of at that lower canopy level, forest floor level of that rainforest, it has roots, but it does a lot more climbing. Like, it was more like a vine, more of like an epiphyte where, it will actually climb up trees, at the base of that that rainforest floor. And and so the that's one of the things that would stand out to me is sort of those kind of, woody structures or root things that it would, have at the base of the plant. Now in a pot, you might just see it at the base of the plant.

Chris Enroth: 07:52

But if you'd see them in the wild, you would see these, monstera plants sort of clamoring up trees like a vine would. The other I I think the thing that really stood out in terms of what this plant looks like are the leaves. And, you know, we we kinda mentioned that, you know, was was even the scientific names, the perphalo perpholomias or perpholodietia, you know, however them Latin people say it. Perfolated leaves, essentially. There's holes in these leaves, and well, with certain species.

Chris Enroth: 08:24

And, but other species within this monstera genus, they they don't have as many holes in the leaves or if at all, and they do kinda look like a philodendron. So I guess I could kinda see where the very beginning where these would be kind of put in this group and then in that family and then and then moved around here and there. And then finally, you know, it arriving in the the the ara ACA family. Is that the the arum family? And that reminds me of, like so we have a plant, arum picatum, which can grow in our forest floors.

Chris Enroth: 09:02

And, you know, it it it sort of a a similar type of a a plant to it in terms of a little bit of the leaves minus the holes, but also the, the the the flowering and the fruit that might develop on our our our arums in our own North American climate. But, yeah, these these do hail from the South and central parts of The Americas.

Ken Johnson: 09:26

Yeah. So you you mentioned the holes in the leaves. I think when people think monstera, most people think of the ones with holes and angles. It's usually what you find. A lot of times on on young plants or or smaller plants, the newer leaves, youngest leaves are not don't necessarily have holes in them.

Ken Johnson: 09:41

But as they get bigger, start to climb, they start developing holes. Or I guess the proper proper term is fenestration, on those leaves.

Chris Enroth: 09:51

That's fancy.

Ken Johnson: 09:52

It's vocabulary word for for this week.

Chris Enroth: 09:55

So you were talking about not necessarily cheap plants. You could probably find them a good deal on a Monstera, but some of these are fairly expensive. And, yeah, when you go to the specialty nursery or wherever you go to pick these up, make sure you use that word, fenestration. That way, they'll know you're serious.

Ken Johnson: 10:20

Be amazed. And if they don't know, maybe you can get a discount.

Chris Enroth: 10:22

That's right. Yes.

Ken Johnson: 10:25

Yes.

Chris Enroth: 10:25

Do you know who I'm who you're talking to? I am mister fenestration to you. Yes. But yeah. So the holes in the leaves, they, they maybe serve a purpose.

Chris Enroth: 10:37

We're not sure.

Ken Johnson: 10:38

So there's there's all kinds of different theories. I I I went down rabbit holes a lot this week, so probably not as well prepared as I should be because I got lost a lot. But I did find there's a paper. I don't know if it is a peer reviewed paper, but it's it's kind of here we go. There's the right tab.

Ken Johnson: 11:03

So this is the adaptive function of leaf fenestrations in monstera species. They look at water, wind, and herbivory. This is from tropical ecology and conservation at the Monteverde Institute, in Costa Rica. So this person they're looking at so the some of the theories are they have holes in the leaves, and that will deter herbivores, from feeding on them. It helps holes, help water get down through the canopy, so they get down to the roots of the plants, or they're for wind so that they're not getting wind whipped.

Ken Johnson: 11:34

The wind can pass through. The the I guess, a little experiment this person did, they found, at least from their experiment, they're thinking it's for water. Because you think they're in a, you know, they're going in a rainforest. A lot of that water, I think numbers range like 70% plus percent of the water gets intercepted by that upper tree canopy. So while it rains a lot, there's not necessarily not nearly all that is getting to the forest floor.

Ken Johnson: 12:00

So by letting the water go through the holes in the leaves, it's gonna pass through and get down to the roots of the plant. Whereas if it's rolling off the leaves, it may get shed far away from so the the roots of the plant. So that's one theory out there. There's another one, that is more about, those holes. So, again, it's under the under under the canopy.

Ken Johnson: 12:24

So you've got, like, dappled light. You're not getting direct light. And those holes help increase the leaf area of the plant without making them giant so they can intercept more of that dappled light. And if it happens to pass through a hole, there'll be leaves underneath, to intercept it. So that's helping them intercept more light by increasing their leaf area without adding without having to produce a whole bunch of plant tissues, which is gonna be costly.

Ken Johnson: 12:49

So those are some theories out there. That first one, they didn't find any I think they've actually found there was more feeding damage on the ones with holes in them. And then there was negligible difference between holes and no holes in the leaves for wind. So

Chris Enroth: 13:08

But it does lend well to another very common name for this one. It's called also commonly referred to as the Swiss cheese plant, as I've I've heard it called many times, and I'm sure, if I asked my kids to remember something, they would remember Swiss cheese plant better than monstera. But monstera is still kind of a catchy name too It's a big plant. It can be a big plant, depending on what species. I suppose, generally speaking, when we are dealing with with with care, of Monstera.

Chris Enroth: 13:41

So, Ken, you talked about you've had this plant for a month or two. You have not taken as good of care of it. What should you be doing to take care of your Monstera plant? And and and, yeah, give us some some tips and advice.

Ken Johnson: 13:58

Yeah. So we'll get into the different species. From what I've I've read and gathered, the monstera deliciosa, which is the one we most commonly find, also called split leaf philodendron. It is probably one of the more forgiving ones, so we can tolerate a little lower can tolerate lower humidity than others, Monstera. Now our still our of the humidity in our house during the winter is still probably much lower than it really wants, which I know is part of my problem.

Ken Johnson: 14:29

It's developing kind of brown spots on the leaves, and that can be well, that can be an indication of low humidity, too much water, not enough water. Plants are kind of a pain that way sometimes. But they so they're gonna like a little like humidity, and some of them need a lot of humidity, some of the more difficult ones to grow. They need bright light. They don't necessarily need, like, full sun, but they need, like, a bright windowsill or supplemental lighting, if you if they really want them, to do well.

Ken Johnson: 14:57

And if you've got leaves that don't have a lot of holes in them, that a lot of times that may be an indication they're not getting enough light as well. They they do like it probably a little bit more on the moist side, from what I've gathered. So not maybe, you know, stick your finger in there if it's dry. You wanna water them. You're not letting letting them completely dry out like you would with succulents, and stuff like that.

Ken Johnson: 15:20

Probably, you know, treat them water like your typical house plant. You know, stick your up to your first knuckle and that dries out. Go ahead and water them and stuff.

Chris Enroth: 15:32

So, yeah, like you said, Ken, a lot of our houseplants, they come from the sort of that forest floor from Central South America, those tropical type climates. Yeah. When you describe light levels so I I have a golden pothos. I propagated this thing, in our plant prop class twenty years ago, and I have multiple plants that I propagated off of that. But I've noticed that when it sits in my house all winter long, the leaves turn green.

Chris Enroth: 16:07

I've even told people like, oh, no. This is a golden pothos, and it's all green. They say, oh, no. That's not a golden pothos. So I will pull a cutting off of that very same plant, hot that up, have it outside during the summer, it turns this gold color.

Chris Enroth: 16:21

White stripes and gold flecks, and it's, almost, anything but green. And so, yeah, the the light levels can play such a huge role in our our our house plants. And that's something that I I kind of struggle with, especially this time of year where you are trying to provide enough humidity to keep your plant growing while still trying to provide light, and that usually means some kind of an artificial light for me. But yeah. So do you have any plans future plans for your monstera?

Chris Enroth: 16:55

Is it gonna remain in a pot? Are you gonna pot it up with something else? I'm just curious because, you know, I I've seen this plant growing in, like, an atrium up another, like, ficus tree. Are you gonna do anything like that?

Ken Johnson: 17:09

Yeah. So a lot of times when they get bigger, people will put them on poles, plant poles. You can buy whether, like, sphagnum or something like that. There's bark, because they do, they do wanna climb. So, you know, if you want them to do that, you need to provide something for them, to climb up.

Ken Johnson: 17:26

Probably something kind of rough. I was watching a webinar the National Guard Bureau did. They had somebody talking about somebody that a metal pool and wrapped it in burlap. Basically, you want something that's gonna retain some moisture, that humidity, so the roots are gonna go in. You don't want to dry out.

Ken Johnson: 17:44

So some kind of organic matter like, you know, that burlap or sphagnum or something like that that can hold that moisture and those roots will attach to it. If you want to grow if you wanted your plant to get really big, and you don't want it kind of flopping all over the place, give it something to to climb up. So Mhmm. If I if I am successful with it, yeah, it will definitely need to go into a bigger pot, because it's not a very big pot right now. And and I don't think they they really like a lot of root crowding, so

Chris Enroth: 18:14

you

Ken Johnson: 18:14

need to repot, I say frequently, but probably a little more frequently than than some other plants, house plants would.

Chris Enroth: 18:24

That that would be tough if you trained it on to, say, your coffee tree, that you're growing as well. So, yeah, repotting both of those would be kind of an ordeal. I I guess another thing to mention is that, you know, when we speak about monstera, we're talking about a toxic plant. So if you have little nibblers in your house, whether they be kids, adults, because you know me. Sometimes I just get hungry.

Chris Enroth: 18:52

Pets. So this plant does contain calcium oxalate crystals, that is not good for your your organs. And so, it can cause also in terms of, like, a skin reaction to pain, swelling, things like that. So, you know, just protect yourself from this. But it's interesting.

Chris Enroth: 19:13

Should we dive maybe into a specific species? Because we talk about edibility, and this one monstera is deliciosa. Why would why would a plant taxonomist call a poisonous plant deliciosa? So Monstera deliciosa, the most popular one can am I am I mistaken here? Is because I wouldn't eat this plant knowing the toxicity of it.

Ken Johnson: 19:42

Yes. Yeah. For, yeah, for Monstera, all parts of the plant are toxic. But for deliciosa, that does actually produce, an edible fruit, but you have to harvest it at the right time. If you harvest the green, it still has those crystals in it.

Ken Johnson: 19:54

So, timing of that is important. But if you're growing it as a house plant, I'm not gonna say I can guarantee you're not gonna get fruit. It's very unlikely, you're going to get fruit because we just you can't kind of replicate the conditions it needs to to produce that. So I'd actually found a an article in Scientific American from 1894, where they describe the flower and fruit of it. So here's the, and then in this article, it actually refers to this philodendron, as well.

Ken Johnson: 20:31

So first paragraph, the Monstera Deliciosa occupies a prominent place among larger plants that are often often seen in the parlor and living rooms, and it's difficult to imagine any foliage decoration that is more beautiful and ornamental than the than afforded by this plant. For this reason and because the stately Liana requires comparatively little care and attention, it has found many friends and admirers who are richly rewarded by its abundant luxurious growth for the little trouble they expend upon it. But although this child of the tropics is so well known, very few have had the satisfaction of seeing a blossom or even a picture of a blossom of this plant. And therefore, when by a happy accident, I had a rare pleasure had this rare pleasure, I determined to publish a little study of the plants with a good clear illustration of the flower. And we can include a link.

Ken Johnson: 21:23

So that but yeah. So eventually it will produce a fruit and again I've never seen it, in person or or eaten it, but it's got like little almost like scales on the fruit, and when those come off, you can then eat it. But if they're still on there, kinda like honeycomb, little hex or hexagonal structures on there, then you can eat it. And the the taste, it's supposed to be like a mix of tropical fruits commonly described as a combination of banana, pineapple, coconut, with maybe some ants of apple or mango. So but it will cause irritation if it's not fully ripe.

Chris Enroth: 22:02

Mhmm. So yeah. And this University of Minnesota article also mentions that it will the delicios will rarely form flowers or fruit in any environment outside of its natural habitat or a controlled environment greenhouse. So if you're one of them lucky folks that has a greenhouse, yeah, maybe you'll get something, off of this. But it

Ken Johnson: 22:25

yeah. Yeah. I think that Scientific American article was, maybe a conservancy or something in Germany Mhmm. Or something like that. Yeah.

Ken Johnson: 22:39

It was not out of somebody's house.

Chris Enroth: 22:42

No. And interestingly so in in the wild, the dolichoosa will get up to 50 feet tall, but it will not get that big at home. But the Minnesota article also says this plant would be considered aggressive in its native habitat. It it it can be kind of a bully, where it's at. So that must be another reason why it could potentially do so well in our homes because, well, it it has a little bit stronger will.

Chris Enroth: 23:13

Not saying plants have wills, but it it just it seems like it might just be a little bit tougher because our these leaves are a little bit thicker than, say, like, your typical Easter lily or something like that. They have a little bit more of a waxier cuticle, which helps them to resist some of that that drying out that you might experience at home. Even though, you know, we you've just heard us say, yes. They do need a higher humidity. But these are a little bit more tougher leaves, a tougher plant.

Ken Johnson: 23:42

A little more tolerant. Yes. Less than ideal conditions than than some of the other monstera.

Chris Enroth: 23:47

Mhmm. Yeah. Now there are cultivars even within these, and, you know, the one that's called out in this article here is Thai constellation. Now they describe it as a showstopper. And it it basically when they first introduced this particular cultivar, this was the one where people were paying tons of money for.

Chris Enroth: 24:11

Now Thai Constellation, I I'm guessing, looking at it, it says that there's is sports a gorgeous cream and green marble pattern on its leaves. So it's variegated. It has some some leaf coloration to it. But, yeah, I guess people were paid, what, hundreds, thousands of dollars?

Ken Johnson: 24:33

I heard of I don't know if it's true or not, but I've mentioned of people, yeah, a couple of thousand dollars, like plant auctions and stuff for for a single plant.

Chris Enroth: 24:43

Oh, when do we get to the propagation section of this podcast? How do you make more of these?

Ken Johnson: 24:50

So so I will say that they have figured out how to make more of these, and now the price has has come down, quite a bit. I mean, I think you can find them in box stores. Mhmm. Maybe not in Jacksonville or Macomb, but in bigger cities, you can find, I think, tie constellation, in box stores and stuff. So Okay.

Chris Enroth: 25:11

Well, good to know. We've come

Ken Johnson: 25:12

a long way in a couple of years.

Chris Enroth: 25:14

Yes. We have. And and I guess if people are curious, the main propagation method for these is cuttings. It is air layering. We actually make a slit in the stem.

Chris Enroth: 25:24

You can put rooting hormone in that slit, which which then triggers, roots to initiate. Then in that spot, you you what we what I would do is I would mound or or lot up sphagnum peat moss where you make that cut, put the rooting hormone, and you wrap it in some kind of plastic wrap. Give it a few weeks. When you see the roots growing in that plastic that ball of of moss or or, potting soil, you then cut it and pot it up. That's air layering and then cuttings and division.

Chris Enroth: 25:56

Those are your propagation methods for those. You can go get rich slow just like the rest of us.

Ken Johnson: 26:04

Now say for for delicious, I you know, again, they're not getting, you know, fifty, sixty feet tall in the wild. But indoors, I had I don't think it's if you're taking good care of it and you've you've had it for a while, you can probably get four, five, six feet tall. I mean, that's out of the out of the realm. It's a possibility. Yeah.

Chris Enroth: 26:25

Well, I guess, the delicious is gonna be your most common one. But what about that first one? The the one that was the first Swiss cheese plant, Monstera adansonii, you know, named after the the very botanist that came up with the Monstera name. So, this one, even though it was one of the first ones described, it is not probably the most common one that you would find in the trade. That, again, would be deliciosa.

Chris Enroth: 26:56

It's not even it it grows quickly, but it's still not even as big. You know, where deliciosa gets up to 50 foot in the wild, this one's only gonna get, like, 13 foot in the wild. And then if you're growing this in your house, it's gonna get, you know, two to four, maybe five foot tall if you're lucky. The the leaves of this one, as they emerge, they will be kind of a oval shape, but then they're going to take on more of that typical heart shaped, flavor of monstera or some philodendrons and things. So, but these will have, a a couple holes in each leaf, you know, range about five ish in each leaf.

Chris Enroth: 27:37

So you are going to have your that Swiss cheese effect. But, yeah, adansonii, that it is the the first one, but not the most popular one, I guess, out there.

Ken Johnson: 27:50

Yeah. I think the other one I have isn't that's why I got two. I think that the other one is adansonii. It's at least it looks, like it's big. It's it's definitely smaller.

Ken Johnson: 28:02

Yeah. And it's this one is actually binding, a little bit, at least last I looked at it. Hopefully, it's. Yeah. But, yeah, definitely smaller than the than the Deliciosa.

Chris Enroth: 28:16

So this next one and and I said, can you know, we're saying, like, which ones do we wanna include? Because, you know, we have, you know, dozens and dozens of these. I I just said, Ken, leave this on here because I just like it. I'm not gonna use the actual name. I'm gonna use the, synonym here.

Chris Enroth: 28:33

Monstera Escuelito. I like that, which, Ken told me is skeleton in Spanish. I like that.

Ken Johnson: 28:43

Yeah. So this one, is one where the, you know, I guess, the taxonomy is confused. Maybe it's a hybrid. Maybe it's some species. I found something, Monstera affinis epiphynoides.

Ken Johnson: 28:58

So finis means similar to or so maybe it's that, maybe it's something different, but everybody calls it Monstera Escalido. And this one has got pretty big holes, in the leaves, the fenestration. So that's the name skeleton. So it's got much bigger holes than like a doliceosa does. Little because you say a little more delicate looking just because of those those large holes, much more lacy.

Ken Johnson: 29:25

But it's still, again, I've I've never ever driven a before I wrote it. It's just still pretty tough, relatively easy to grow, plant, though. And I I think it's probably it's not as common, and it's probably gonna be maybe a little more expensive than your typical monstera, at least until the supply catches up with the demand, for it.

Chris Enroth: 29:47

Well, I'm I'm looking at a picture of it right now, and it and it's on a a storefront. And it it is probably one of the more striking ones on the storefront and the most expensive one on the storefront. And so, yeah, I I think that would make sense. The description here that we we have in our notes is, that there is more air than plant, which I think is a really good way to to describe it. Yeah.

Chris Enroth: 30:14

These these fenestrations are just it does scream skeleton to me. So, is very befitting of this particular plant. Yeah. Very striking. This is one I would I would like to have.

Ken Johnson: 30:32

Hint hint.

Chris Enroth: 30:34

Hint hint, to any of my wife listening, which she does.

Ken Johnson: 30:41

So

Chris Enroth: 30:41

yeah. No. No. The kids, they they don't even know dad goes to work and does anything. So yeah.

Chris Enroth: 30:48

Oh, but there there is one particular species that even has more air than plant, and this is Monstera obliqua. And this is the one where I feel like this is where, like, the super villain would own these. You know? And and if you have one of these, you are not a super villain. But this is like a rare plant.

Chris Enroth: 31:10

This is one that would be very difficult to get your hands on. So this is for plant collectors, essentially. And even plant collectors have to keep their eyes peeled for this particular one. Monstera obliqua is one of the rarest species out there. And it it probably one of the reasons why it is more rare is because it's more difficult to propagate because it's very slow grower.

Chris Enroth: 31:33

Yeah. It it must just creep along. And so propagating this plant, making more of them is just a more detailed longer process. It also is a very finicky, plant, and it needs a very high humidity, at least 85%, because this plant, would probably acquire more moisture from its leaves than its actual root system. So, you know, it's it's definitely acting more kind of like that that apathetic type habit of of this plant.

Chris Enroth: 32:08

And so it needs a very high humidity. So it has a very specific growing environment that requires more than likely a a very climate controlled greenhouse. And but, yes, this this one is described as as more holes than leaves, making it a delicate collection delicate addition to any plant collection. And I do not see a picture here. I've looked at a few stores, and, they don't have this.

Ken Johnson: 32:39

Yeah. Just a general search for it, and it looks the pictures I saw, it looks almost ragged. Like, there's so many holes, and the holes are so big. It it looks kinda like like a caterpillar came through and just skeletonized it or something like that. I mean, it's that's not rough edges, but it's it's yeah.

Ken Johnson: 33:03

We'll let's see if we can find a picture to put in the in the video version of this. But if we can't, use a search engine of your choice and search monstera oblique oblique one. And, yeah, it's yeah. I it'd be another one to be interesting to grow, but I don't know if I wanna provide 85% ish humidity in my house.

Chris Enroth: 33:26

You have a lot of mold growing in my house. That's all I can say.

Ken Johnson: 33:29

A lot

Chris Enroth: 33:30

of grow

Ken Johnson: 33:30

grow tender or something like that.

Chris Enroth: 33:32

Yes. Yeah. It would be it would be a mess. So, and if if I would spend probably the hundreds, if not, maybe a thousand or so dollars on this plant, I do not want to hide it in a grow tent. I want this to be I will build my house around it.

Ken Johnson: 33:48

Yes. Nor do I wanna explain why I spent that much money on a plant.

Chris Enroth: 33:52

That's true. No. Maybe I should hide it. Ah, that's alright. I've spent lots of money on plants that I've killed, so we won't get into that right now.

Chris Enroth: 34:05

So we we we had the plant collector Monstera Monstera Iblica, which, you know, again, hey. Anyone's allowed to send us cuttings or whatever so long as you're following all rules and regulations of the US government. Anyway, so there are other monsters out there. And this particular one, you know, just briefly speaking, this is the largest monstera out there. It's monstera epiprem epiprem oh, boy.

Chris Enroth: 34:34

This is gonna be a rough one. Epipremenoides. Epipremenoides. Yes. So, again, one of the larger ones out there, it grows very tall.

Chris Enroth: 34:48

I'm guessing very viney. The leaves are very large than most of the other ones that we've discussed. The the leaves, the way they they act, they kind of drape over top of each other, which kinda, I think, gives sort of that tiered tiered layered look to it, probably a bit more softer, appearance than some of this the skeletonized, looking leaves. But yeah. So epipremenoides is the largest one out there.

Chris Enroth: 35:18

So I'm I'm guessing if you're growing this one, you need some space.

Ken Johnson: 35:22

Yeah. I guess we should preface with, like, largest one out there or the rarest, like, in the in the plant trade. Yeah. I don't know if, like, the whole genus, these are necessarily the obliqua would be the rarest and the other one, epipropromoides, whatever.

Chris Enroth: 35:38

Good point.

Ken Johnson: 35:39

Would would be the biggest. At least on and those available in the plant trade of the sixty, seventy, however many species there are out there.

Chris Enroth: 35:46

Yes. And our our limited view of this plant, which is how can you buy it. Yeah. Mhmm.

Ken Johnson: 35:53

Alright. So there's so there's there's two at least we were able to find for from looking at different sources and and different store or, I guess, storefronts, if you will, that do not have any holes or fenestrations in them. So one is called Monstera Peru or Monstera carstinatum or something like that. So this is a this is a smaller one. It doesn't have any, again, those holes or those fenestrations on them.

Ken Johnson: 36:24

And they've kinda got leathery, kinda dark dark and light green patches. It's kind of variegated like that. The pictures I've seen, you kinda think of, like, looking at, like, a a map of, like, farmland, and you have these different shades of green on a kind of patchwork on there. To me, it looks kinda similar to that.

Chris Enroth: 36:49

That's a good description. I've never thought to describe that, yeah, that patchwork of, like, looking at a map of agricultural land. Because that's exactly what you what I'm I'm looking at one of those, the the variegated type here and and yeah. Good good job, Ken. Good good description because that's exactly what I'm looking at.

Chris Enroth: 37:08

It's like an a map of rural Illinois right here.

Ken Johnson: 37:12

It's my contribution for the day.

Chris Enroth: 37:14

Wait. Great job. You should write that one down because someone's gonna take it.

Ken Johnson: 37:18

It's it's recorded. Yeah. And then the last one, should've cut these out with these names. Monstera stand standaliana elbow variegata or cobra monstera. We'll go with cobra monstera.

Chris Enroth: 37:38

I like this.

Ken Johnson: 37:39

So this one, if you look at the petioles, it's kinda got a sheath, a wider sheath on there that looks kinda like a the hood of a cobra, thus the name cobra monstera. And, again, this is another one that does not have, holes or fenestrations in it. These are a little little thinner, a little pointier, than some of the other ones, maceraea, that are out there. And they are can be variegated with lighter green and white specks on it as well.

Chris Enroth: 38:11

Yeah. It's not not quite the patchwork, but there is, like, you know, half the leaf might be white, the other half green, but I see more specks, more spots of of white on green leaves with this cobra monstera. And both both of these, those last two we've mentioned, again, they're both smaller than than the others.

Ken Johnson: 38:35

Yes. And then you can find them, in the trade. The one website I'm looking at, they're the same prices as the others Mhmm. Or smaller delistios. A bigger, larger delistios is more expensive.

Ken Johnson: 38:50

They can be found out there in the wild as in the stores or on the Internet.

Chris Enroth: 38:57

Yes. So as a national was it the National Garden Bureau's plant of the year, there is a lot more information online about, you know, monsteras, include the you know, as the broad genus of plants and then down into specific species and and and even cultivars of plants, some of which we've highlighted today. But we will put links to, the National Guard Bureau's, kind of their their press packet that they put out about these particular plants if you wanna learn more about them and you want to hunt around to go find them.

Ken Johnson: 39:35

Yes. And if you really wanna go down rabbit holes, we can, include the the at least the titles of the papers, we're referring to. I think some of them are open access, and anybody can access them. So Mhmm. If you if you got time to kill and you wanna read a 200 page, paper on the classification of Monstera and Central America, Go for it.

Chris Enroth: 40:02

I I I would almost like to have a time machine to go back in time to be in a room when these botanists are arguing about what Monstera is because I kind of imagine they were they weren't just like, you know, oh, yeah. It's not a philodendron. They're probably like, oh, it is a philodendron. It'd be fun just to know that people were arguing about this sometime in the past that it was a big deal. Today, we're just like, well, let's test the genetics and find out for sure.

Ken Johnson: 40:31

Yes. And that comes with its own problems because everything is getting split and lumped together now. And, I mean, I guess problems isn't the right word, but its own set of issues.

Chris Enroth: 40:41

That's right. I don't know what an aster is anymore, by the way. So the name changes all the time. I'm I'm over it now. Well, that was a lot of great information about monsteras, all different types.

Chris Enroth: 40:57

And, again, as we mentioned, well, there'll be more information down below in the show notes.

Ken Johnson: 41:02

Well, the

Chris Enroth: 41:02

Good Growing Podcast is production of University of Illinois Extension edited this week by Ken Johnson. Ken, thanks for not only editing the podcast, but contributing, as always a monstera amount of information, for this podcast. So, Ken, thank you very much for, doing all this legwork, making me look good.

Ken Johnson: 41:22

Well, yes. Thank you for as always for being on and to go take care of my monstera now so I can get nice and big. Maybe maybe I'll go all out and try to get some fruit on that.

Chris Enroth: 41:32

Oh, build that. Alright. Build that structure this year. That's right. Yes.

Chris Enroth: 41:38

Yes. Good old grow house in the basement.

Ken Johnson: 41:40

Let's do this again next week.

Chris Enroth: 41:44

Oh, we shall do this again next week. We're going to be talking about all these plants of the year. How about the herb of the year? We will discuss what that particular one is. I'll I will settle in amongst my monstera and sip my herb of the year tea, if you might can you guess what that is now?

Chris Enroth: 42:01

But, yes, we will be back next week to discuss another plant of the year. Well, listeners, thank you for doing what you do best and that is listening. Or if you're watching us on YouTube, watch it. And as always, keep on growing. Did I lose you?

Chris Enroth: 42:31

I see you, Ken.

Ken Johnson: 42:32

My headset cut off for a second there.

Chris Enroth: 42:35

No. Okay.

Ken Johnson: 42:36

Okay. I'm back.

Chris Enroth: 42:38

Should we start over again?

Ken Johnson: 42:43

If you want. It's up to you.

Chris Enroth: 42:45

Considering you don't know what we said. Okay. Alright. Take two. This is gonna be great, especially if you're editing this.

Chris Enroth: 42:54

And if it did pick up all my sound, you'll be like, oh, man. Gotta listen to this again. Okay.

Ken Johnson: 42:59

This was the best start ever.

Chris Enroth: 43:04

Alright. Take two. Here we go. We did it. We got through monstera unscathed, but we did not talk about spadix or spades or, yes, the beautiful flower that people will probably never see if they grow this plant.

Chris Enroth: 43:25

Yes.

Ken Johnson: 43:27

Or that they're pollinated by beetles.

Chris Enroth: 43:31

Aw. Sorry. We didn't get to that. Ken's like the best part of it is that they're pollinated white beetles, which you didn't mention.

Ken Johnson: 43:38

Wait. There's more.

Chris Enroth: 43:42

Well, that's what the blooper reel

Ken Johnson: 43:43

is for. Yes.