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Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris Enroth, political educator with the University of Illinois Extension coming at you from Galesburg, Illinois. And we have got a great show for you today. We're going to be talking about, well, it seems like I have a blue filter on my camera today. We're going to be talking about the blues of winter, but a really specific type called Seasonal Affective Disorder.
Chris Enroth: 00:27We're gonna have family life educator Tessa Hobbs-Curley with us to discuss that and how it seems to affect us gardening folk more than others. But before we get to Tessa, you know I'm not doing this by myself. I am joined as always every single week by horticulture educator Ken Johnson in Jacksonville. Hey, Ken.
Ken Johnson: 00:45Hello, Chris. Your your camera does look kinda sad right now.
Chris Enroth: 00:49I have the blues. My goodness. Yes. So I there's you can't hear it, but there's a trumpet wailing behind me in the background. Yep.
Chris Enroth: 00:58So singing the blues here. So but you're bright and chipper as always, Ken.
Ken Johnson: 01:04I try my best.
Chris Enroth: 01:06And we are also joined by horticulture educator Emily Swihart in Milan, Illinois. Emily, thank you for joining us today from good old Milan. You also look bright and chipper.
Emily Swihart: 01:19I try. I tried. This winter, I mean, it's hard. I'm very excited to be talking to Tessa and learning some coping mechanisms. Hopefully, winter's not my season, although I know, Ken, you and I have had discussions about this.
Emily Swihart: 01:33But, no, happy to join you guys and really glad to have Tessa on.
Chris Enroth: 01:37Well, I I think it's very timely because the groundhog saw his shadow yesterday, which does that means six more weeks of winter. Right? Is that what that means?
Ken Johnson: 01:49Yeah. I think it depends on which which groundhog you're looking at too.
Chris Enroth: 01:53Yes. That's true.
Ken Johnson: 01:55Pick your own groundhog, and you get the results you want.
Chris Enroth: 01:58We have one behind the office too. I'll go ask that one also. So mhmm.
Emily Swihart: 02:03I feel like he always sees the shadow. I feel like every winter. Six more weeks of winter. It doesn't matter. Matter.
Chris Enroth: 02:11We need to hire a new groundhog. Yes. Well, I would say without further ado, we do have quite a few questions to send her way. So let us introduce family life educator Tessa Hobbs Curley. Tessa, welcome to the show.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 02:26Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Chris Enroth: 02:28Well, we are happy to have you. And so, yeah, we're gonna talk about kind of the kind of that downtrodden feeling we we get this time of year. But I I just we're excited to have you on the show. So Tess and I, we are coworkers. Yep.
Chris Enroth: 02:46We work together here in the same four counties that we serve. So it's good to have you on the show. Always a wealth of knowledge. Amazing wisdom also with Tesla.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 02:58Thanks, Chris. Amazing wisdom. That's it. That's me.
Chris Enroth: 03:03I'll just, yep. I so I would say we should probably kick off this week's line of questions. So, Ken, would you mind getting us started, please?
Ken Johnson: 03:13I can do that. So I guess our first question is, what exactly is seasonal affective disorder?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 03:21You know, Ken, there is a plethora of definitions out there, so I'm gonna make it as simplistic as possible. It is depression that follows a seasonal pattern, most commonly in fall and winter, and it's linked to changes in daylight, routine, and biology.
Ken Johnson: 03:42So then is this something you would go to get, like, go to the doctor and get an official diagnosis or or something like that?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 03:50Yeah. I would always urge people and and feel like it is important that they have a good relationship with their family doctor. That's always a first step to go and discuss how you're feeling. It is an official recognized mental health condition. It's that defined in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, and and if you know anything out there, those mental health therapists, you know, it's the DSM five now.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 04:25It's the fifth edition. And and they revise it so often. So, again, this is a subtype of major depressive disorder or bipolar disorder with a seasonal pattern. It is not a standalone disorder, but it is a specifier with recurrent depression that occurs during specific regular seasons. A mental health therapist, like you were kinda mentioning, can like who should do this?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 04:55So a mental health therapist, a psychiatrist, a doctor can all diagnose a person with SAD. Anytime you get a diagnosis, someone can give suggestions on what you can do to help with the situation.
Emily Swihart: 05:12Is it diagnosed every year, or is this something you said it's a reoccurring with the seasons. Is would you would you go back to your your doctor every every year when you start feeling, you know, bummed about the the weather? Or
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 05:28That is a great question, Emily. No. So once you're diagnosed, you're diagnosed. Okay? So you are aware.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 05:36Usually, they say two years is, like, consistently you've experienced this for two years. So that's kind of the identified time frame that people kind of look at this. And once you're diagnosed with it, the best thing kinda like what I said at the end is then you take steps to treat it. Okay? So you know it's coming.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 06:00It's happened for the last two years, specific time of year, and so then you take steps to help you address those symptoms that you're feeling.
Emily Swihart: 06:12Okay. Thank you. Yeah. So how is this different than just feeling bummed about? Like, what are some of the signs or symptoms when somebody should, maybe be alerted to maybe seeking some medical help versus just being like, it's cold, and I can't feel my limbs anymore.
Emily Swihart: 06:28Like, that bums me out. But, like, there's this is more serious than that. Like, can you help us understand, like, when this has reached that level of concern?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 06:36Yeah. And, Emily, you you kinda hit it there. You know? We all can feel bummed out. Right?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 06:40We all can feel blue. Chris talks about he's being blue today, but we all can have those experiences. Mostly, today, where I'm at, it's very gray outside. Okay? So it's very gloomy looking.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 06:55Alright? So I'm gonna take a little bit of time talking about the difference between just the winter stinks and kinda the ug feeling versus the seasonal affective disorder. So usually starting in fall or winter and easing into spring, Okay? Feeling bummed about the weather is more like a normal mood dip that comes and goes. But here's how it really when we think about practical terms, how it's different.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 07:26Okay? So feeling bummed about the weather, mood dips on a gloomy, cold, or rainy day, that happens. We all can experience that. You still enjoy things once you're distracted or the weather improves. So, you know, we might start off feeling, but then I like that keyword of being distracted.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 07:46We kinda get jolted back into, okay. I'm doing my work, or I have this game to go to. Energy and motivation are mostly intact during that time. It doesn't seriously interfere with our work, school, or relationships. Okay?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 08:03It improves quick really quickly with sunshine, plans, or a change in scenery. Okay? So that's kind of the typical ugh, the blues that we can have. The seasonal affective disorder really looks at it lasts typically weeks to months. Okay?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 08:22And it's not just bad weather days. Mood is low most days, nearly every day during a seasonal or specific season, and you notice changes in sleep. And often sleep too much, appetite, especially carb carb cravings. So, you know, I think about it. Sometimes when I'm blue or whatever else, I I want that bread.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 08:45I want the carbs and things like that. But you will see individuals with who experience SAD, the fact they do crave that. Okay? Low energy, the brain fog that's there, feeling slowed down or hopeless, can interfere with daily function. So I talked about how the other really doesn't interfere with daily function.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 09:07This one does. And it tends to repeat every year around the same time. So you can really kinda see the difference between the two. It can seem similar. Okay?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 09:18And somebody might say, oh, I noticed that, this is happening, but people can definitely tell that when it's a change in season that they have that impacted, feeling low. A keyword I said there too, even on a nice sunny day, it doesn't matter the fact that they can still feel blue or down. Okay? So, again, similar but very, very different.
Emily Swihart: 09:44Yeah. Thanks. I appreciate how you articulate that it it is just continual. It goes on. Like, I think that's really helpful because we do have days, even a couple of days here and there, you know, where you're just not feeling like yourself.
Emily Swihart: 09:58But, like, when it lasts for so long and then noticing it happening each year when the seasons change, I think, is really important. No. I didn't I didn't realize that. So I appreciate that you Yeah. Sharing that.
Emily Swihart: 10:11Now I was reading that there's so we're mostly we're talking about fall and winter seasonal affective disorder, but there is a spring summer counterpart to this. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 10:24Yeah. You noticed that I said typically when I talked about typically, it falls in. But yes. So and most of the time, people are like, why spring and summer? Why is that happening?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 10:37But, again, I I mentioned about the die or whenever we were talking about seasonal affect disorder at the very beginning, we talked about the biological. Okay? Changes in daylight. And, again, it's the routine as well. So those three main factors occur, and if you think about the spring and and summer what's happening, those three things are being impacted.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 11:04And so, again, we typically think that, oh, somebody's not gonna be feeling that way. They're gonna feel so much better, but not always. So you're gonna see a little bit of that mirroring of the same type of effect.
Emily Swihart: 11:18Thanks, Tessa. That helps.
Chris Enroth: 11:21Yeah. You mentioned, like, a craving of, like, carbs. Is is there also, like, an increase in, like, alcohol or, like, drug use during these times?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 11:31Well, again, coping skills, you know, whenever we think about that, individuals and and as I mentioned too, that diagnosis of depression is first, and then you look at those subtitles that are associated with that. A lot of times people with anything, any type of challenge, sometimes we can seek positive ways to address it, and then we can seek those ways that doesn't help. And so alcohol intake, you know, again, people sometimes, you know, will want to feel better, and so we think sometimes, okay, if I have a drink or I want to be sedated. I'm so tired. We talked about feeling fatigued, but they can't sleep.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 12:18You know, sometimes people feel like they can't sleep or they're sleeping a lot, and so sometimes they tend to want to go to some of those unhealthy choices, and alcohol is one of those.
Chris Enroth: 12:35Well and I I also wonder too, and I I've I've heard about this that there are certain even groups or professions that seem to be affected more so than others. So do you think like, do you see this, like, where our farmers or, like, outdoor gardeners, outdoor workers, are they do they experience this SAD? It's kind of what the common abbreviation is for seasonal affective disorder. Do they experience this differently than other professions or no?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 13:07You know, that's a great question. There's not a lot a lot of research out there that specifically says, you know, farmers and gardeners, but there is some. And I always wanna start off with about five percent of all adults in The US experience SAD. And so when you think about that, that's a large percent. The most difficult months for people with SAD in The US tend to be the January, February that I mentioned.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 13:37So what do we think of of farmers? What are they doing in January and February? If they are specific farmers, you know, like, they're not livestock or they have something else, you know, what are they doing during those times? Or if you look at your guys are horticulture educators. You you three might be able to answer this even a little bit better than I can.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 14:01But, you know, what are gardeners doing during that time? You know, some might have indoor or hoop buildings or whatever else, but the fact is where do you see their prime time of being outside? You know? Yeah. But so I have to say that both farmers and gardeners experience that due to the reduced sunlight and cooler temperatures, but farmers face a higher risk due to intense occupational stress, isolation, and financial pressures that can really, as you mentioned, the winter blues, that can really increase those winter blues.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 14:42Gardeners often view the winter pause as a natural break, whereas farmers experience it as a high stress period. Because what are they thinking? Those prices. What is it gonna be? What's gonna happen next?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 14:57You know? They're looking at all, you know, when to sell the grain, when to you know, when's a good time, when's a bad time. So all of that during their down season, whatever that may be, as they prepare for the new year, it's a little bit different. Where horticulture or as you talked about those that, you know, again, even local small farms individuals, they might be able to identify and plan and use that time to plan what they're gonna be doing in those spring months, but they are. As you mentioned as I mentioned, that sunlight definitely because those individuals are outside.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 15:44They're with the earth, the green, and everything else. I mean, there's so much research out there about being with nature and how important that is, that green space. And in a few minutes, I I kinda wanna ask your guys' opinion. In those winter months, are you seeing an increase of individuals wanting to have more green space around them during those winter months.
Chris Enroth: 16:14Mhmm. I think there's well, let me speak. I'll say first, from my perspective, there is an aroma that comes with green living plants that you can get if you go into a greenhouse or if you, like, go on vacation somewhere where, it's still warm and greens are plants are still alive. The other thing is if you know anyone who has a greenhouse that that you can sneak into, and just get, like, a a whiff of, photosynthesis occurring, I guess that's what it is. But, me, personally, I'm yes.
Chris Enroth: 16:52I am seeking that aroma of green living plants.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 16:57That's awesome. Right?
Emily Swihart: 17:00Yeah. I think and, I mean, in addition to that, the humidity like, there's a difference in warmth between, like, being warm because of a fire or cozy like, under a blanket versus being warm because, like, it's just warmth. Like, the environment is warm, and there's that added humidity. I noticed that quite a bit. Plus, yeah, that aroma of those plants, like, transpiring and releasing oils into the into the air.
Emily Swihart: 17:23Like yeah. I I mean, I could live in a greenhouse in these winter months because it it does make you feel better. It makes you feel more alive to be surrounded by things that are actively growing. Right now, we've got a lot of things that are dormant. But yeah.
Emily Swihart: 17:42Ken, you're our resident winter
Chris Enroth: 17:45guy. He's our Viking.
Emily Swihart: 17:46He's our Viking.
Ken Johnson: 17:50Yeah. I mean, I think, kinda go along with you too. Yeah. The if you've got, you know, plants growing indoors, you know, I think you're you're kinda getting some of that as it is. And and I think also you kinda that that planning, they're looking forward to what's to come in the spring helps as well.
Ken Johnson: 18:14I mean, every August, September, you know, I'm usually done with the guard. I don't wanna do this anymore. And then inevitably, January, February, it's like you're chomping at the bit to to get out and and do it again. Yeah.
Chris Enroth: 18:28Well, I I spent some time looking at the windshield, and I will turn on, like like, ag radio. Those farm market reports do not stop when the harvest is over. Like, they're like you said, Tessa, they're, like, calculating. Like, should I sell now? Like, it is high stress even in the winter when there's nothing growing in the field.
Chris Enroth: 18:51And then, like, I guess, next week, yeah, the farmers have to listen to me talk about pest icide safety. So, yeah, that sounds very sad and depressing. I definitely wouldn't wanna do that. So, but, yeah, there are there there there is definitely a difference there, yeah, in terms of, those professions.
Emily Swihart: 19:08Well, a lot of it's our hobby. We do it for fun, and you know that with a hobby, there's, you know, lower expectations. You know? Hopefully, we want success, of course, but less is riding on it. When it's your profession and you're supporting a family or it's a legacy.
Emily Swihart: 19:25You know, with a lot of our Midwestern farmers, like, it's a heritage. It's a culture. You know, it's a family farm. In the winter, you know, a lot of those bills are coming due. You're, you know, you're paying last year's bills and committing to next year's bills.
Emily Swihart: 19:37Like, that is stressful. So
Chris Enroth: 19:40Well, I was also curious, Tessa. Winter does affect me differently as an adult. As a child, I loved it. It was so much more fun. Now I kinda wanna get away from it every once in a while.
Chris Enroth: 19:59Do children did are they, do they experience SAD, or is this, something more from the brain?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 20:08Absolutely. Children can. And, you know, when we think about the symptoms, one of the things that kind of jump out the most that people need to be probably more aware of, mostly as parents or those who are working with children, is that children with SID frequently show extreme irritability or grouchiness or crankiness rather than sadness. That's one thing to kinda be aware of. Sometimes we think, oh, they're just being moody or, you know, there's just something you know, they're just choosing to be that way.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 20:46But, again, they may appear happy in some situations, like with friends, but kind of withdrawn or depressed at home. Adults typically report a more consistent low grade depression compared to children. And so whenever you kind of look at some of the comparisons there. Also too, sometimes children can complain their stomach aches or a headache or those type of things, or you might even notice that they're a little bit more clingy to you, and you're just like, what is going on? You know, like, what is what is happening?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 21:26So again, looking at some of those physical symptoms as well. Also too, when we think about the developmental factors, children may not understand why they're feeling sluggish, know, again, that's not really something we talk about. You know, we typical talk about the certain level of feelings that we might be happening or going on, but, again, they may not be able to really understand and articulate exactly what's going on with them. You know, during winter, it making it harder for them to really identify the seasonal pattern. You know, as I mentioned, that time frame, you know, they might experience it one year, and maybe they were, like I mentioned, more irritable.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 22:18And maybe the next year, you're noticing that they're a little bit more clean. You know, it doesn't mean that they're gonna fit specific criteria all the time. So you just have to be kinda prepared and pay attention to some of the changes in their specific behavior. So to me, that's the things that kinda stand out, the difference between children and adults.
Ken Johnson: 22:46So you mentioned a little bit earlier, kind of the the environment, kinda greenery in the environment. So how you know, I guess, it kind of in addition to to SAD, how does kind of less greening the environment affect people's mental health?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 23:01Yeah. And you all might know this. There's some research that was being done by the University of Illinois professors. I think it was William Sullivan and Francis Ku and Andrea Taylor, and they did some work. And Francis Ku is a professor of natural resources and then environmental science and psychology at Illinois, and she studied how environmental factors such as access to nature may influence social, psychological, and physical health.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 23:38And some of her findings included elderly adults tend to live longer if their homes are near a park or other green space, which obviously I love, and I think that that is fabulous findings, and regardless of their social or economic status. So a lot of times people think, and we kinda explore economics with that, and so it didn't matter about, you know, how wealthy that they might be. College students do better on cognitive tests when their dorm windows view natural setting, and I think I would be one of those. I I'm one of those. I like to look out my window.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 24:21I think that they should do some studies with at work. I'm grateful to have a window to look out because I do appreciate seeing natural settings for that. Children with ADHD have fewer symptoms after outdoor activities in lush environments, and I love that they use the word lush environments. Okay? But residents of public housing complex report better family interaction when they live near trees.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 24:52And and I just wanna stop and give you a moment just to kinda reflect upon that. I mean, again, that was awesome findings that they that they researched and spent some time on. And I'm thinking, wow. We know this. Okay.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 25:10So how can we make sure or what can we do in our communities to make sure that people are having that? Or or maybe people have looked at those findings, and so what are they doing differently? And so I kinda wanted to hear from all of you because I think that was great findings that they that our University of Illinois professors found.
Emily Swihart: 25:35Yeah. It I know it's wonderful, you know, having it so close to home, having Midwestern researchers. It is it does contribute to a body of research that continues to demonstrate that there's benefits to exposure to to nature. E. O.
Emily Swihart: 25:48Wilson in the eighties and oh, Chris, help me out. There was the city with the hospitals. Blanking on his name.
Chris Enroth: 25:56I forgot his name too. Was it in Indiana where they did the study? And they saw faster healing time for people with Yeah. A view out to the park or less than your location?
Emily Swihart: 26:07People are screaming at us right now because every like, they know so our listeners I know know this. But it was you know, it demonstrated that recovering from a hospital stay, lower pain rates
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 26:20Yes.
Emily Swihart: 26:20You know, better moods Mhmm. You know, like, less medications to be taken, faster recovery. So it does contribute in, like, all facets of our life, like, whether you're, you know, healing from something or you're trying to learn something and and do concentration or you, are building relationships. Like, communities have, you know, there's been studies that have demonstrated that communities, people have better social networks and relationships with their neighbors in communities that have a robust urban forest or, you know, where green infrastructure is supported. So, yeah, I I love I second everything you said, Tessa.
Emily Swihart: 26:54Like, it's, you know, it's necessary research. It's important research. Like, this help this affects our our well-being, our our lives. And and and I like that it is separate from that socioeconomic status because that, I think, also strengthens the the argument for or, you know, like, the incentive for including plant materials in all the different spaces in our lives, our communities, our parks, our workspaces, the schools, you know, like, civic locations. And so I I could go on forever about it because I think it's really I mean, of course, we love plants, but, like, they're doing work for us and helping improve our lives.
Emily Swihart: 27:33And so
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 27:34I Mhmm.
Emily Swihart: 27:34Appreciate you bringing that up.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 27:37Yeah. And I I I think too, you know, Chris, whenever we were thinking about I was reading about her study. So, you know, in 2001 study of Robert Taylor Holmes, which was recently demolished, who and her colleagues, of I landscaper, professor William Sullivan, found that those who lived in housing units with no immediate view of our access to nature reported a greater number of aggressive, including violent conflicts with partners or children than their peers who live near trees and grass. And she went on to say further with her study that people with less access to nature show poor attention or cognitive function, poor management of major life issues, or poor impulse control. And then in twenty two thousand eight, doctor Taylor and Ku studied children.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 28:42Again, I was talking about the whole ADHD, and I'm gonna go back to that, and I love this part. So she talked about that they looked at children who went on ADHD, children who went children with ADHD, let me clarify that, who went on a trip, a field trip in green or man made environments. And after the trip, other researchers who didn't know where the kids had been tested their concentration. And children with ADHD had significant better concentration after a walk in a park than in an urban setting. And the difference between that was comparable to what is achieved with standard ADHD medication.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 29:26And so, again, I have to emphasize that they didn't talk about how long the green effect would last, but the fact that they got that was significant to me. And and I also have to add as well when I looked at some of the additional research with it, you know, blue space is very important as well. You know, we talk about green space, but blue space, like rivers and lakes and coasts, all of that is very important as well. And so we kinda have to think about that, where people live, what they have access to, and what we can do in our communities to make that effective. And think about that research and how important it is and how it makes a huge difference for all ages.
Chris Enroth: 30:15I yes. And probably, as you said, Emily, people are probably screaming at us like, of course. And and I bet we are preaching to the choir here with our listeners and and viewers. Like, yeah, you you get it. It's good for us.
Chris Enroth: 30:29But as you said, Tessa, we also have to convince people who make the decisions about what to build, where to build, how much of our money to invest in this type of infrastructure, around our communities. And it's one thing to get up in front of them and say, it's good for us, but it's a whole other thing to say, look at this research, which has now quantified the benefits to us. So, it just we're just keep I keep stressing the same thing you guys are, but it it's it's so valuable. Yeah. We we we need to know this so then we can have these conversations with others about creating these spaces for for our whole communities.
Emily Swihart: 31:14Well, in the different audiences that we get to be in front of so whether you're talking to municipal workers or you're talking to the school board or you're talking to, like, health care professionals, like, having that that broad understanding of of how exactly these you know, the inclusion of plant materials or the inclusion of a a well designed landscape or access to a landscape that is, you know, plant filled can save you money, can improve your test scores, like that quantifiable data. You know, you can you can pick cherry pick depending on who you're talking to, of course. You know, the school board cares a lot more about test scores and students' well-being versus, you know, saving money on storm sewer systems. Not that they don't care about it, but in the particular setting, I think that that information could be left to the side. But, you know, like, having that broad that breadth of research and, yeah, like, money talks, test scores talk.
Emily Swihart: 32:09Like, we we have a numbers society. Right? So where are we at? We went on a tangent. Am I up next?
Emily Swihart: 32:17Sorry, guys. Also, it's Roger Ulrich. Perhaps we
Ken Johnson: 32:21should Roger Ulrich.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 32:22Very good.
Chris Enroth: 32:23That's it.
Emily Swihart: 32:24Yes. Yep. Alright. I've used that
Chris Enroth: 32:26name so much.
Emily Swihart: 32:28I know. Okay. I know. Alright. Tessa, so you've given us a lot of really good information, background information.
Emily Swihart: 32:36Now what do we do with it? Like, are there some strategies you you can offer to help us cope with SAD or just some of those, you know, feelings of winter blues? I they're similar, you know, in how they affect us in the day to day. The prolonged, experience you is different, but are are there any healthy coping mechanisms that you can offer?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 32:56Yeah. So treatment for SCD fall truly into four main categories that can be used alone or in combination. And, again, I love that you said, probably not telling anybody something new, but maybe reinforcing what they've heard. So, again, light therapy, psychotherapy, antidepressant medication, and vitamin d. Those are the four main categories.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 33:25And since nineteen eighties, okay, since the nineteen eighties, light therapy has been a mainstay for treating winter pattern SAD. So again, it's aimed to expose people with SAD to bright light to compensate for the reduced natural light in darker months. We know that, but that is the reason why. Okay? So for this treatment, the person sits in front of a very bright light box every day for about thirty to forty five minutes.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 33:58So usually, first thing in the morning is what is recommended, and that goes from fall to spring. So if you can work that in, put that into your schedule. Also, talk about too getting outside. So if you can get the I go I almost said normal light, but if you can get outside and just take in the natural light, then you really need to do that. So if you are a person that, you know, likes or used to like, maybe not in those SAD times, but to get up in the morning and take a walk, that is great to get that natural light.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 34:41Even if it doesn't seem very bright, there is a little bit coming in, and then sit in front of, I call it the light therapy for another fifteen to twenty minutes, that would be great. Okay? So that is one way to look at that. I do have to add that, you know, certain people may have eye diseases or people taking medications that might increase sensitivity to sunlight may need to use alternative treatments or use light therapy under medical supervision. So I again, you know, I don't want somebody to be like, oh, I have this issue with my eyes, and I'm just gonna you know, I heard this podcast and I need to go out and do this.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 35:25No. You need to have that conversation and really kinda do that under the advisement of your family doctor. On that second one, I talked about vitamin d. So because many people with winter pattern SAD have vitamin d deficiency, vitamin d supplements may help improve symptoms. However, studies testing vitamin d as a treatment for SAD have produced mixed results, with some studies really indicating effective as light therapy and other studies finding that no effect.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 36:03So a person with SAD should talk to a health care provider about any dietary supplements, prescriptions, or other over the counter medications that they are taking. So vitamin d can interact with some medications. So again, we need to do that under the advisement of our family doctor. And then I'm moving on to the psychotherapy, also known as talk therapy. And sometimes people put the big x mark up there, but honestly, therapy and counseling can help with SID, and by teaching ways and new ways of thinking and behaving and changing habits that contribute to a person's depression.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 36:47So again, when we think about the antidepressants that I mentioned, medication can be used to treat depression because SAD, like other types of depression, is associated with disturbance in serotonin activity in our brain, and so antidepressant medications called selective serotonin kinda does that. It inhibits you know, it helps in our brain, and so it is important that you're not too anti it. Sometimes people are very hesitant when it comes with antidepressants. But the fact is, again, having a conversation with your doctor. And sometimes those antidepressants take time.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 37:38So, you know, somebody might say, I've taken them for three days and this is how I feel. You know, sometimes it takes two to four weeks for individuals to feel any results. Again, those are the four main, like, components and strategies that people are encouraged to kinda explore if they do have SAD.
Emily Swihart: 38:03Can you I guess I'm really curious about, like, the light therapy As a horticulturist, we think about the light, you know, blue and and red light waves, particularly for for plants. Like, when you say light therapy, is it just, like, turning on all the lights in your house, or is it, you know, like, bright light? Is there a certain wavelength that we're looking for? And forgive me if this is common. I I'm not as familiar with it.
Emily Swihart: 38:29Is it those red light masks? God, I hope not.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 38:33No. I'm laughing. That is so great. I wish everybody can see your face right now. You're like, no.
Emily Swihart: 38:39You know? Don't.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 38:40Yeah. Actually, you can buy I mean, I think now you can and I'm not an light expert, but Mhmm. L u x is, like, like, 10,000 LUX is what you're kinda looking for. So it's like that power behind the light. And a lot of times, it's just that small sorry.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 39:03I'm, like, moving with my hands. It's a small light that you can purchase and that you can sit in front of. But, really, that's what it's like. So it's not your typical light in maybe your living room or it is a special type of light that you can just purchase. If you and I don't wanna say Google it, but if you do your research on light therapy, there is a multitude of lights out there that you can select from.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 39:31I know many people who do it. You know? Like, I know a lot of people know that, you know, again, in January and February, that's rough times for them, and they are, you know, believe it. That it really has helped them tremendously to kinda start their morning off with a little bit of therapy. And, some people do it two or three times a day.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 39:55Again, if they notice, like, hey. It's lunchtime. I'm gonna I'm able to have the light at work or whatever else, and so I'm gonna sit in front of it for a little bit. I know that kinda gives me another boost for the for the rest of the day. They've learned what works for them.
Emily Swihart: 40:12Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Maybe like I said, maybe that was a question that maybe many people knew the answer to, but I appreciate you you helping. It sounds like it's kinda like a medical device almost.
Emily Swihart: 40:23Like, there's, you know, there's more nuance to it than than maybe I previously believed. So I appreciate you explaining that. Now the talk oh, go ahead.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 40:34I'm just curious. Ken or Chris, have you seen individuals having, like, using a light therapy or a light that they have purchased?
Ken Johnson: 40:47Not knowingly. Like, do you just, like, you just, like, stare at the light? Or
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 40:52Sorry. Because those these are great questions, everybody. You know? Like, that's honestly, a lot of people just close their eyes and sit there kinda meditating a little bit and then just having it and just having it on their skin. You know?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 41:07It's it's kinda just sitting in front of it. And it's and you said the mask, you know, so people have, like, masks and things like it's a little bit different, but at the same time, that's you know, I just have seen so many different types of those lights. So I don't wanna say that you can't stare at the light, but most of the people I know, like, shut their eyes and just let the the light on their on their face.
Chris Enroth: 41:39I I just came from a meeting where, master gardener, she had remarked that she was able to set up her TV to do pictures of gardens from around the world. And she said that has just been so much of a boost to her mood to, just be able to walk in the room and look and see, like, a garden in France or, in Japan and just just really thought that was a a good way to to help her boost her mood.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 42:12You know, right? I mean, again, when we think about the things that we enjoy, it's kind of those hobbies. Right? And we if there's ways for us to feel like we're in touch with that, and it could be our TV sets, turn it to, you know, if you like to travel and you wanna turn it to a travel station or whatever else, that can boost somebody's mood. Right?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 42:38That can help them. As we talk about, you know, gardeners planning for the spring and summer, you know, taking that time and sketching it out and figuring out what they need to purchase and what's something new they wanted to try. You know, all those things can energize somebody to have them look forward to that. Again, though, we have to kinda look at the little steps that we can take to help ourselves. Right?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 43:08And if we know that we struggle with it, it's that planning. It's intentionally looking at it that, hey, it's coming up. This is what I need to start doing. You know, we can always talk about any time with type of depression, exercise, getting out, getting you know, people saying bundle up. You know, if you're a walker, getting outside, bundling up, and getting that in natural light, those are some things that we need to do.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 43:32It isn't you know, it's been cold. It's been very cold around here, and so that's not something I always wanna do intentionally is get outside and walk. But, again, if that is something that's going to me, okay, that is something that I need to explore, how I can tolerate that cold. What do I need to get? What do I need to put on?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 43:53You talked about socializing, you know, finding that buddy system, whether you walk with somebody or not, somebody who holds you accountable. I mean, that's always a great thing too. And it might be if you know that you're gonna be struggling with that, you know, support groups. There's many different support groups out there that you can join. I would encourage somebody to do that.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 44:16If you like hobbies, again, making sure that you share with others that, yep, I experienced seasonal affective disorder. This is my rough time. So then maybe somebody is like, hey, I'm gonna intentionally make sure I invite that person to come with me to do this, or hey, you know, let's do some planning if you like to do some work outside in that springtime, so let's talk about what our plans are. Those are some things that we can do to kinda help and support one another.
Chris Enroth: 44:48And and we have surpassed the ten hour threshold of daylight, so our plants can resume active growth if they so chose, if it wasn't freezing cold outside. But if you do have, like, spinach and carrots and all that, I mean, we have enough day length now where they will resume active growth. And if this gives folks any any hope or anything to look forward to, our day length is increasing by two minutes more than two minutes every day, so we have more time to get outside. And so that's, personally something I'm looking forward to and doing more of, outside, you know, outside of work. We can now do more stuff outside.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 45:30I love that. I like what Ken said earlier too is sometimes in the summer months, we're like, ugh. I'm so done with this. I don't wanna do it anymore. But, ma'am, when we're away from it, we sure miss it.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 45:42So it it again, you know, looking at those simple things, and even if it is two minutes every day for so long, that gives us a little bit more time outside. We do need to take advantage of that.
Chris Enroth: 45:56Well, I think another good spot maybe to to leave off, and and one last question for you, Tessa, is for folks who want to learn more about this, do you have any resources to share where we can put a few links down below in our show notes?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 46:12Yeah. I mean, again, Mayo's is always a wonderful Mayo Clinic is a wonderful site. Anytime if you wanna, Google or link in to Mayo Clinic, they do have a great list of things that you can do and kind of recognize. There are there's also a PDF form you can download from the National Institute of Mental Health on Seasonal Affective Disorder, and there's a really good one there. College in Health and Family or Family Life Educator or Health and Family Educator, Sherry Bircham, back in 2023 in January, she did a little little blog on winter blues and how to handle that.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 47:02So as we were talking about winter blues, I think that that plays a part too. So sometimes people are like, I really just had the winter blues, but I still need some support and help. So that's a great little article there. And then the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Service Administration has good information on SAD as well. Those are great resources that individuals can go to.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 47:27There's always a flyer or one page educational flyer that you can download, and then Mental Health America is a great resource as well, and I encourage you to kinda explore some of their fact sheets there on that site as well.
Chris Enroth: 47:48Before we shift to the closing part of the show, was there any other questions or, Tessa, is there anything else you wanted to mention?
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 47:56Yeah. So, you know, going back to I I feel like I'm maybe not doing a very good job talking about light therapy. So, you know, sometimes people are using the term light box as well. So you might even if people are looking at that light therapy, they might even look at light box. And it it talks about how it may cause a chemical change in the brain that lifts your mood.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 48:24So that's what it does. So that's what we're kinda looking at. So, again, that 10,000 LUX of light, that is common that we're looking for, and produce as little UV light as possible. So, again, that's where, you know, people are kinda talking about what's the difference, what's the lights, and things like that. And again, I went to Mayo's, and they had talked at Mayo Clinic online, and they talk about within the first hour of waking up in the morning, that is their recommendation.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 48:59So it goes back to what I was talking about. So in the morning, kinda starting your day off with that, and they talk about twenty to thirty minutes, and about 16 to 24 inches from your face is about the distance that you're gonna be. So just wanted to share a little bit more about that just because I think people, if you're thinking about that, that's some of the things to consider. But again, if you're taking specific medications, be aware if sunlight can impact that. And, again, talk to your family physician, and they could probably give you some recommendations as well.
Chris Enroth: 49:40Very cool. Yeah. I'd I think light is so important to our how we function throughout the day. I know some friends who they've even programmed their light bulbs to slowly kind of get brighter and brighter early in the morning. So then by the time the alarm goes off, it's bright light in the room.
Chris Enroth: 49:59So and they says it it it really does help in waking them up and getting them feeling refreshed and energized for the day.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 50:08Well, and they talk about alarm clocks. I think that's what you're even talking about. There's alarm clocks, and and I know, you know, our children always do some research as well, and that's one thing that my oldest had talked about. That was one of the alarm clocks that she chose to get. And as you talk about that light, that was one factor, and also the noise is another.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 50:30Because, again, you know, I think about my alarm clock, and it's a very annoying beep. And I don't have that casual light. I jump out of bed and turn the light and the way I go. But, you know, that gradual, that might make a difference. It might have a
Chris Enroth: 50:46Yeah.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 50:46Make me in a little bit better mood. I don't know.
Chris Enroth: 50:50Well well, don't worry, gardeners. Pretty soon, you'll be jolted awake in the morning with the fear that you didn't water your plants yesterday or you gotta get them watered before you leave. So that's it's it's coming around the corner, so don't worry. It's about there. Well, that was a lot of great information about seasonal affective disorder.
Chris Enroth: 51:08We are going to leave links down below in the show notes that Tessa had described so you can learn more about this and do a little bit more reading yourself on this kind of mental health, especially mental health awareness this time of year is really important. We've all been stuck inside for so many weeks right now, so it's really gonna be useful for a lot of folks. Well, the Good Growing podcast is production of University of Illinois Extension, edited this week by Ken Johnson. Tessa, thank you so much for being with us this week and talking to us about Seasonal Affective Disorder. It's been a pleasure.
Tessa Hobbs-Curley: 51:41Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Chris Enroth: 51:44Emily, thanks for joining us from Milan, I mean Milan, Illinois. We are so happy to see you once again this week.
Emily Swihart: 51:52Oh, my pleasure, guys. And yeah, Tessa, thank you so much for all of the really good information. Gave me a lot to think about. I'm sure our listeners and viewers really appreciate the wisdom that you've you've shared today. So thank you for joining us.
Emily Swihart: 52:05And, it's always a pleasure to to join you all on the pod.
Chris Enroth: 52:10Well, thank you. And thank you, Ken, for for doing the the editing work this week and hanging out with us talking about the SAD. Even though I know you love winter, Ken, it's it you know, spring's up right around the corner, bud.
Ken Johnson: 52:24I know. And then hot weather. Jess, thank you, Tessa. A lot of great information. And Emily, we need to work on your plaid game here.
Emily Swihart: 52:36I know. My game is weak.
Ken Johnson: 52:41And Chris, thank you as always, and let's do this again next week.
Chris Enroth: 52:44Oh, we shall do this again next week. Well, he will have we will have a garden bite for you, and we'll I think I'm gonna be seeding a prairie. So try to maybe get some documentation of that, show you how we do a dormant seeding in the winter for our native prairies. Well, listeners, thank you for doing what you do best, that is listening, or if you watched us on YouTube watching. And as always, keep on growing.
Chris Enroth: 53:19Alright. Well, we will close it out right now. All the good well, wait. No. I did that wrong.
Chris Enroth: 53:25Cut that part out, Ken.