Ep. 248 Favorite trees for spring: Trees we look forward to every year | #GoodGrowing

Chris Enroth: 00:05

Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris Enroth, horticulture educator with the University of Illinois Extension coming at you from Galesburg, Illinois. I'm still here. Really like this place. And we are talking about our favorite spring trees.

Chris Enroth: 00:22

You know I'm not doing this by myself. I am joined as always every single week by horticulture educator Ken Johnson in Jacksonville. Hey, Ken.

Ken Johnson: 00:30

Hello, Chris. Long time no see.

Chris Enroth: 00:32

It's been a while. You're wearing the same thing you were last week.

Chris Enroth: 00:40

Me too.

Ken Johnson: 00:40

I'm gonna start doing that from I'm gonna start doing that from now on.

Chris Enroth: 00:43

That's gonna be great. You have, like, like, a mister Rogers Ken's little cardigan that you put on each show. That'd be that'd be great. Can we

Ken Johnson: 00:51

change my shoes and

Chris Enroth: 00:52

Can we do that, like, as a intro now for the show? It's like Ken just putting on his his house shoes, his cardigans. No? okay. Alright. We're already off the rails.

Ken Johnson: 01:04

I'll see what I can do for you.

Chris Enroth: 01:05

Excellent. Hey. We're in the middle of tree month, April, Arbor month, and so you know we have to bring on horticulture educator Emily Swihart in Milan, Illinois. Emily, welcome back to the show.

Emily Swiha: 01:18

Hi, guys. Thanks for having me back even though you are contractually obligated to.

Chris Enroth: 01:22

That's right.

Emily Swiha: 01:22

I appreciate you.

Chris Enroth: 01:23

That's right. Yep. You showed up the other night and said, when are gonna do that podcast? And you threatened me. So here we are.

Chris Enroth: 01:32

I'm just kidding. Don't send us to HR.

Emily Swiha: 01:34

Off to a great start here.

Chris Enroth: 01:36

Oh, boy. I wonder if people can tell we've done two and a two right after the other here. So, today we're talking about our favorite trees. And so we each have our own list, and we are going to go through we're kinda just hopscotch back and forth between each other.

Chris Enroth: 01:55

So I guess, Emily, let's give give us your first favorite tree and and why? Like, what's the criteria for selecting, like, springtime favorites?

Emily Swiha: 02:05

Yeah, well, the criteria that I think we should go by and the criteria that I went by don't match up. So I think we should be considering trees, especially if we're considering them for planting, you know, right tree, right place, diversity, you know, what we don't have kind of in the neighborhood or in our community, you know, kind of mixing up the diversity of species. But when we put the caveat on there with spring, of course I'm going for, like, flowers and beautiful blooms, especially since we just enjoyed a winter, and it's not my favorite season. And so when it comes to spring, I kind of throw out some of my principles of, like, native and beneficial, and I'm like, Oh, pretty. All the pretty things.

Emily Swiha: 02:52

That's who I am. I don't think I'm going to change at this point. Midlife, I'm settled in. So my first tree is actually two, because I don't follow the rules very well. So it is I'll tell you the one that I want it to be, and then the one that it actually probably should be just because of where we're at.

Emily Swiha: 03:12

So I want it to be Cornus florida, the flowering dogwood. It's so pretty. Like, the flowers so it has a really cool form, first of all. Like, all season long, it's got a really cool kind of horizontal branching form, which I am just nuts for. Nissus sylvatica has that also.

Emily Swiha: 03:32

It just is really, architecturally cool in a landscape. So Cornus, Florida has that. It also has some really cool bracts. The flowers aren't The flowers are very small, but they are surrounded by really ornamental bracts. And so bracts would be similar to the poinsettia that people are familiar with.

Emily Swiha: 03:52

Like, they're modified leaves for visual appeal, mostly, is what we hypothesize. So there's red, there's white, there's pink. There's kind of variations of these colors of bracts on Cornus florida. So I really like that. I like having options, and I'm a sucker for pink.

Emily Swiha: 04:10

So the reason this is not my final choice, and I'm going to just modify it a little bit and go with Cornus cusa, which is very similar. It can be hard to identify. The flowers look very similar. Their form is a little bit different. But cornus coosa or coosa dogwood is better suited for our area.

Emily Swiha: 04:31

It's a little bit more cold tolerant. The the flower buds are more cold tolerant, and since that's what I'm going for, obviously, I would be choosing a tree that would be have a little bit more cold tolerance with the the flower buds. I should say, though, both are rated for zone five. And so technically, you can probably plant both of them. I think you'll just have better luck with Cornus coosa.

Emily Swiha: 04:58

There are fewer pests and disease problems with the Coosa dogwood, so that's appealing as well. You want to have a healthy tree so that it can last a long time. So Doctor. Durer, Doctor. Michael Durer, he wrote the Bible of sorts on trees.

Emily Swiha: 05:17

I've got it right here. The manual of woody landscape plants. It's well loved. Wrote, it is difficult to overuse this plant. So I think I'm in good company in choosing cornucusae.

Emily Swiha: 05:31

So that's my first tree.

Chris Enroth: 05:33

That's a that's a good one. And and I hear you with the structure or the architecture of the tree. I have a Cornus florida in my yard, and I get abused by that tree every time I mow. I like I'm okay with it. My wife keeps asking me, like, why don't you just trim those branches?

Chris Enroth: 05:55

I'm like, I love that horizontal structure. Like, I will, like, go through it with the mower, and it will, like, rip off my hat, my glasses, like, has my shirt attached. It's undressing me as I'm as I'm going through it, and I still love it. It's just it's I I just like that tiered effect of that branches, and I don't wanna get rid of it. So yeah.

Emily Swiha: 06:21

Yep. I I think that's awesome. And you're a little more south than I am, so maybe, you know, I probably can get away with that cold hardiness issue a little bit. But Yep. I didn't mention the bark, though.

Emily Swiha: 06:34

Yours is got that really cool kinda blocky bark to it. So that's another reason why I want Cornus florida. So the the bark gets, like like, rectangular or square kinda blocks to it versus Kusa has more traditional kinda multicolored gray tan. Like, exfoliating bark, but I I don't know. Like, that blockiness is kind of a unique cool characteristic too.

Emily Swiha: 06:55

But

Chris Enroth: 06:56

Yeah.

Emily Swiha: 06:57

Love that you have one.

Chris Enroth: 06:59

It it's great. I love it too. Even when I get scratched up.

Emily Swiha: 07:03

What's what color do you have?

Chris Enroth: 07:04

It's red. Yeah. Okay. So it's red. It it gets a reddish fall color.

Chris Enroth: 07:10

It's been kinda hard to tell in recent years with the droughts that we've had in the fall, but, yeah, it gets an okay red fall color.

Emily Swiha: 07:19

Yeah. And you've mentioned you have some shade in your landscape, and this is more of an understory Yeah. Tree. It's not massive by any stretch. You know, 20 foot would probably be, you know, what we could expect, but it does tolerate kind of dappled shade or understory shade.

Chris Enroth: 07:35

Mhmm.

Emily Swiha: 07:36

Alright. Ken, what do you have on your list? Because you stole one from me, so I wanna hear your description of it.

Ken Johnson: 07:46

So I guess first one I got is redbud.

Emily Swiha: 07:50

That's the one. Beef.

Ken Johnson: 07:53

So I think most people are probably familiar with redbud. I've already seen them. So they've got the nice pink flowers in the in the spring. We'll say this year, I've got a couple of redbuds that have started from seed in my yard. They just keep popping up everywhere, I just let them grow.

Ken Johnson: 08:06

Many times, not in very ideal places. So once they get too big, I cut them down, but enjoy them for a few years. I don't have any blooms or very few blooms on my redbuds in my yard this year. I think that cold spell we had in March, it was just the right time. Those flower buds are starting to open, it just zapped everything.

Ken Johnson: 08:23

There are some trees here in Jacksonville driving around. They do have some flowers, but not nearly like we've had in other years. So I think we got they got a little dinged with the cold weather. But, usually, you know, they get massive pink display of the smaller p shaped flowers. They're kinda cool.

Ken Johnson: 08:42

They'll bloom on the on the trunks of the plant, cauliflowery, which is something you don't necessarily see all that often in trees, chocolate, cacao trees, or one tree that does that. But, yeah, it's just I think it's just a really pretty spring color. And even the leaves, I mean, it is kind of attractive even without the leaves. You know, a smaller on the smaller side, twenty, thirty feet tall. And they've got okay, I guess they've got some nice fall color.

Ken Johnson: 09:11

It maybe not be the most reliable, in the world. And and this is one where, you know, this has been a popular tree for a long time, so there's a lot of different cultivars out there. There's, white flowered varieties, as well. There's some that have variegated foliage, purple foliage, which I personally don't like purple foliate plants, but I know some people do. You know, some of those start off foliage starts as yellow, and then it'll start get more green as the season progresses.

Ken Johnson: 09:42

There's some with weeping habit. Some of them more even more compact, maybe only get ten, fifteen feet tall. So there's I guess there's you know, in addition to the the show it puts on, there's a lot of variety out there that they can fit in a lot of different landscapes depending on what you've got. And the flowers are edible too, so you can just eat the flowers raw, kinda sweet tasting. A couple years ago, made you can make jelly out of them.

Ken Johnson: 10:08

So this is some red bud jelly. It's four or five years old, so the color is a little darker than it was originally. It was more of a pink color, but, yeah, you can eat them in a variety of different ways if you so choose.

Emily Swiha: 10:23

Well, I think that's an excellent choice. I that's the one you stole from me. We were kind of collaborating earlier on on something else when we were talking about this podcast, and you quickly grabbed up Redbud. So well done. Well played, sir.

Ken Johnson: 10:36

Gotta be quick.

Emily Swiha: 10:41

Luckily, there's a lot of really good trees. But no. I I mean, it's been you said it's been popular for a while because it's amazing. It's got really good, really fun, like, spring interest, but it's really four season tree. It does really well kind of all the seasons.

Emily Swiha: 10:57

So

Ken Johnson: 10:57

Yeah. And even, I guess, the I mentioned the bark. Yeah. The bark, you know, as they get older, it gets kinda rigid and you kinda get rust orange color

Emily Swiha: 11:04

in there. Yes.

Ken Johnson: 11:05

So some Yeah. Some winter interest there too, potentially.

Emily Swiha: 11:09

Yep. Yep. I even like the seed pods, you know, with the legume. Like, I I think those are ornamental. They kinda persist throughout the winter, and so that kinda gives some ornamental value to them.

Emily Swiha: 11:20

It does lead to them popping up in other places, but that's just a a gift. And

Ken Johnson: 11:26

if if you find them early, they're easy enough to pull if you get them on their union.

Chris Enroth: 11:30

Yeah.

Emily Swiha: 11:33

Christopher, what do you got?

Chris Enroth: 11:36

Well, my next one is probably not one most people would want in their yard or their woods or anywhere near them, ask the black locust. Very commonly, the black locust is covered in thorns. I mean and these are like an inch or longer. I mean, sometimes you can see them as long as, like, three or four inch thorns. I mean, they're they're pretty gnarly looking trees.

Chris Enroth: 12:03

I'd say they're dangerous, but they're really the one thing I look forward to is something that I discovered in where we had had formerly lived. It backed up to a creek with some woods. And in the springtime, I just smelled this, like, grape scent, this sweet grape, like a grape Kool Aid almost. And I was like, what is that smell? And so I we went down and we walked through the the edge of the woods and we zeroed in on these trees that had these these kind of panicles of drooping in Weeping Town of white blooms and we could smell this like like, intoxicating grape aroma coming from them.

Chris Enroth: 12:46

And it all it happened, like, spring after spring after spring, and it's something that we look forward to every year, just going out to smell the black locust. So I I would say if there's one tree that brings a memory to my mind, it is going out to smell that tree. Then I would have my kids who were really young at the time, and we actually would find lots of red buds as you guys described, and I'd show them you could eat the flowers and so but it was that black locust that drew us out into the woods to come find it. So I like the black locust, but I would never put it in my yard.

Emily Swiha: 13:25

No. It's it I will I will stand with you on this one for all of those reasons. I will never plant it

Chris Enroth: 13:31

Mhmm.

Emily Swiha: 13:31

But I don't have to because it has, you know, some of those aggressive spreading tendencies. And so it can colonize and and certainly be, like, that first succession plant, you know, and especially there's when I drive into the office, one of the roads that I have, the the whole back slope is full of the the black locust, and it does smell heavenly. And I I so it's like honey locust, the invasive honey locust to me. Like, I hate myself every time I smell it and go, oh, that's so nice because it smells so good. It's such a sweet smell.

Emily Swiha: 14:06

And then I think, nope. I'm not supposed to like this plant. And then I get back to being grumpy about it. But the black locust isn't quite as quite as aggressive and invasive. It's not technically invasive.

Emily Swiha: 14:19

But, no, it's a good one.

Chris Enroth: 14:21

There there's been a little development in it, and I remember when we went to visit I think it was ball seed up in Chicago. They had black locust planted in the islands of their parking lot. They had I think I remember this because this this might be a couple decades old knowledge in my brain. So I don't remember seeing thorns on them, but I feel like there's I don't know, maybe there should have been, but they it it was really an an interesting planting to have those in the parking lot because one of the main reasons why, like, landowners don't like them is because they'll pop your tires Because the thorns are are just so super they're they're tough. They're long.

Chris Enroth: 15:05

You can even step on them, and it'll go right through your boot. So, yeah, they put it right in their parking lot. And maybe it was a short lived experiment.

Emily Swiha: 15:17

I was just I was just googling. I was like, are there, like, thornless? I I

Chris Enroth: 15:20

don't know. I don't think so.

Emily Swiha: 15:21

I can see it.

Ken Johnson: 15:22

Yeah.

Emily Swiha: 15:23

I can see it.

Chris Enroth: 15:23

Yeah. Well, Emily, back to the top of the list. What's your second spring flower or spring tree?

Emily Swiha: 15:31

Okay. So this one is another one where, like, I don't have this in my landscape, but I would love to. I saw it once, it wasn't the best specimen, but the flowers, like, those are so unique, and I I'm hooked. Is on the tree silver bells, also known as Halicia carolina or Carolina. And they're gorgeous.

Emily Swiha: 15:55

They're like bell like, just like they're bells, like, on the tree. They are down kinda drooping downward. They have they're in clusters, and so, like, high impact. You know, the tree I saw was a smaller stature tree, which is like, it was probably, I wanna say, 15 feet. So a younger tree.

Emily Swiha: 16:18

Again, not in, like, great condition, but it's a smaller sized tree anyways, and this tree was loaded with these silver bells blooms. And so I imagine even as a 30, maybe 40 foot tall tree, it would have a really high impact with these maybe, like, one inch sized bells and clusters. So neat. It was so cool. I'm gonna stop, like, ranting and just ask, have you do you guys have these in your landscape or or around you?

Ken Johnson: 16:48

I've heard of them, but I don't think I've ever seen one.

Emily Swiha: 16:50

Okay.

Chris Enroth: 16:51

Yeah. My brain is not trained to see them. So even if they are, I have not been able to spot it.

Emily Swiha: 16:57

Okay. This is another one that Doctor. Durr says, like, we underplant. The challenge is that it can be hard to find because it's got some quirks with it making it challenging to get into the nursery industry. There's been So I was reading that there are some challenges with transplant, especially field grown Silver Bells.

Emily Swiha: 17:22

They're harder. They don't transplant very well, so ball and burlap is not there's conflicting stories about whether ball and burlap works or not. But I think it works okay from containers, what I've seen. That's kind of the consensus. If you can get it in a container and you can get it to grow, because germination is really challenging with the seeds.

Emily Swiha: 17:45

It is unique in that it has to have a warm season and a cold season treatment before it will germinate. And then it still has low germination rates, and so it can be kinda challenging to get from seed. You can take cuttings, and you can do kind of those more intensive propagation methods, but just hard to get, hard to get a hold of, and so kind of a bummer. So I was thankful I found the one I did. But not very many pest or disease issues.

Emily Swiha: 18:17

Chlorosis, as most trees have with high pH soils, it can occur. It's not overly tolerant of salt or compaction, but those two things can you can we can find sites in our landscape that don't have compaction or don't have, you know, high incidence of salt. I don't know. I just really want this tree. I want to find it.

Emily Swiha: 18:39

I want to plant it all over the place. So

Chris Enroth: 18:43

Yeah. It's been on my list. I've I've recommended it to people, but I just don't know where to get it.

Emily Swiha: 18:48

And then they go, where do I get it? Yep. Yeah. I know. I know.

Emily Swiha: 18:53

That's a hard a hard situation to be in. Ken, what's next on your list?

Ken Johnson: 19:02

Alright. Next one I've got is catalpa. And I know this one probably is not I think it probably one of the more popular ones. So this is, I guess, northern catalpa. That's what I'll I'll talk about here.

Ken Johnson: 19:13

So this is a can be a fairly large tree with 60 plus feet tall. But it has it has really big leaves. What are they? Six, ten inches. So pretty big leaves, which you don't see a lot on a lot of our shade trees.

Ken Johnson: 19:27

They're usually a little smaller leaves than that, which may or may not be a benefit depending on how you feel about large leaves. But really, what I like for the flowers, they get these really large white flowers, like two inches long, kind of bell shaped white with what was it? Orange yellows orange and yellow and and purple spots on there. And they will give rise to a long kind of like say a bean pod, which again can be, I guess, people consider it trashy because they'll drop them and the seeds will get everywhere and stuff. So it's it's a bit of a, I guess, a trashy tree and that it will drop stuff and stuff, which I think a lot of people probably discourage a lot of people from planting it because it is kind of a mess messy tree may be better than trashy.

Ken Johnson: 20:10

A messy tree. So and there's also you got the the catalpa worm, which is a a sphinx moth. The caterpillars will get on there. They only feed on catalpa. Apparently, this is a they are prized for fish bait.

Ken Johnson: 20:25

Like, people will plant in the Southeast US will plant, like, multiple catapult trees so they can get the caterpillars. I guess they're good for, I see catfish and trout. So but I'm not a big fisher. And I I mean, my fishing is just stick a worm on a hook and see what bites. But, apparently, there there is a big I don't see industry, but there's demand for the those particular caterpillars.

Ken Johnson: 20:51

But if you get them, they can chew up your trees and make them look, again, rather ragged, if you get enough of them on there. So and depending depending on your perspective, that may be a good or a bad thing. I would see it as a good thing, but I realize I'm probably in the minority there that I would want caterpillars decimating my plants. But yeah. But for the flowers, I think I think it's worth it.

Ken Johnson: 21:14

But, again, for me, messy trees aren't really bad. Like, I like sweet gum too. I know a lot of people don't like sweet gums because of the gumballs. So

Emily Swiha: 21:23

I think we're all just, like, kindred spirits here because I'm on board with the catalpa. It's not a I call it not a front yard tree, but it's, like, it's really lovely. It's kinda, like, statuesque as it ages because it does have that weaker wood, and so it can kinda break and lose limbs and just get character to it. So and the flowers are gorgeous. And the leaves are cool.

Emily Swiha: 21:45

They're tropical like. They're simple leaves, and so they're, like, big you kind of you know? I was gonna say obnoxious leaves, but I mean that in, like, a lovely way. Like, they're just, like, there. They they demand to have have your attention.

Ken Johnson: 22:00

Obnoxious trashy leaves.

Emily Swiha: 22:02

Yeah. I would but, like, really great in, like, a great way.

Chris Enroth: 22:07

There's a lot of rumors about the catalpa tree down the street. So yeah.

Ken Johnson: 22:12

And you said Say, man, like

Chris Enroth: 22:14

Go ahead, Ken. No. You're good.

Ken Johnson: 22:16

I was saying, like, in my yard, I don't think my yard is big enough to put a catalpa tree in because I've got a, you know, fairly narrow lot that would pretty much dominate. So I have to well, there's a park nearby us that has a tree, so I will just have to walk over there to enjoy it.

Chris Enroth: 22:31

I think was it you, Emily, that taught me that the catalpa tree is in the Bigoniaceae family? Mhmm. This was long time ago. I think we were walking up to the museum in Kansas City, and you're like, we saw a catalpatrine, and you're like, that's in the big Oneiaceae family. And I thought, didn't even know that was a thing.

Emily Swiha: 22:53

Like, obviously. Look at the size of it.

Chris Enroth: 22:55

Yeah. Yep.

Emily Swiha: 22:58

Yep. I we have some catalpas in our windbreak, and I'm pretty sure they weren't planted there. I'm pretty sure they just volunteered across the pasture, and it is you talk about it being one of our favorite spring trees. It blooms a little bit later up here. It's more of a May, early June bloom blooming tree up here.

Emily Swiha: 23:19

But when those trees bloom, I just sit and stare at them. Like, it's such a lovely sight. Like, we've got a little pasture. Nothing like in the pasture. That's what I need.

Emily Swiha: 23:29

I need some ponies in the pasture so then I can look at them in the foreground. And the catalpas just blooming. Like, they're they're they're big flowers, and so you can see them from a long ways away. Like, they have high impact. And so I agree, Ken.

Emily Swiha: 23:46

And the pods can be frustrating if you're in a, like, highly active area, but they persist throughout the winter as well. And so and you kind of have another ornamental attribute.

Ken Johnson: 24:00

Probably not a good street tree.

Emily Swiha: 24:03

No. But at parklands or they tolerate wet soils, and so you can put them in, you know, like like lowland areas, riparian areas. Mhmm.

Ken Johnson: 24:11

Yeah. I think they're they're pretty tolerant of pretty much any soil, I think, from what I've read. Yeah. Plant them basically anywhere in low grade.

Emily Swiha: 24:18

And enjoy.

Ken Johnson: 24:20

There's also southern catalpa, which is just a little bit smaller. I think the the flowers are a little bit smaller, but there's more of them. And from what I've read, the leaves smell unpleasant when you

Emily Swiha: 24:31

crush it.

Ken Johnson: 24:32

So that's one way you can tell the two apart from what I've read.

Emily Swiha: 24:35

Okay. Yep. There's also a purple catalpa, which looks very similar but not the same as northern catalpa, which is kind of fun. It's got you talk about that purple foliage. Some of the cultivars of purple Kuntalpa are really purple.

Emily Swiha: 24:50

But even just the the straight species has, like, a purple tinge to it, which is kind of interesting. So lots of options for Catawpa.

Chris Enroth: 24:59

If you wanna find the state champion, Northern Catawpa in Illinois, it is in Macomb.

Emily Swiha: 25:05

Yes. I learned that just the other week. You told me that. Uh-huh. Field trip.

Chris Enroth: 25:09

Potentially national champion, but we have yet to begin that application process.

Emily Swiha: 25:15

Clear your schedule. Let's get that application. It's gonna be

Chris Enroth: 25:18

a big day.

Emily Swiha: 25:19

Kidding. Kidding. Yeah. That's fantastic. Excellent choice, Ken.

Chris Enroth: 25:26

Yes. We love Cotapa.

Emily Swiha: 25:28

Yeah. See, you're a tree guy. You nailed it twice.

Chris Enroth: 25:32

Went through.

Emily Swiha: 25:33

That's awesome. Alright, Chris. What do you got?

Chris Enroth: 25:38

My next one is the first tree that I ever learned. I was first day of our woody plant ID class, we step outside the Ag Building down in Carbondale and Doc Henry points to this kind of poorly looking tree, hadn't been pruned or taken very well care of in it. It looked kind of sad, And he said this is Chionanthus virginicus. It's the white fringe tree. And just being the first plant that I've ever learned, it's just stuck with me.

Chris Enroth: 26:15

I don't know if if each of you have your first what like, so Emily, your first tree that you learned, do know what that was?

Emily Swiha: 26:25

I do. It's not the one that's, like, got that kind of memory to to me. I I learned sugar maple first because we had that in

Chris Enroth: 26:31

our Big surf and I

Emily Swiha: 26:32

literally grew up yeah. But I learned that before going to school. But katsura tree is my one where I'm like, oh, that is totally new to me and really fascinating. It smells like cotton candy. Yeah.

Emily Swiha: 26:46

Leaves when you crush it. Almost made my list, but it's not overly spring.

Chris Enroth: 26:52

Do you have a 10. A first plant?

Emily Swiha: 26:54

Go with your favorite tree.

Ken Johnson: 26:56

That first tree that I remember. Yeah. IDing? No. I don't.

Chris Enroth: 27:02

Oh, no. Insect. Insect. Who taught you your first insect ID using, like, scientific morphology descriptions?

Ken Johnson: 27:15

That's a good question. I don't know.

Chris Enroth: 27:18

Oh. Okay. I just hold on.

Emily Swiha: 27:22

Just pick one, Ken.

Chris Enroth: 27:23

I just pick any too tightly to things in the past, I guess.

Ken Johnson: 27:26

Too too many blows to the head.

Chris Enroth: 27:31

The Florida heat really got to you. Got it, man. Okay. Well

Emily Swiha: 27:37

Maybe it's just a tree thing.

Chris Enroth: 27:38

It might be.

Emily Swiha: 27:39

Maybe it is just a tree thing.

Chris Enroth: 27:40

It might be.

Emily Swiha: 27:40

Okay.

Chris Enroth: 27:41

So the the white fringe tree, true to its that that common name, it in the springtime, it develops these very delicate, lacy white flowers that they sort of again, these also sort of like hang or droop down. And depending upon the fringe tree, I mean, if it's well pruned and taken care of, sited in the right place, it's gonna produce a really neat flower show. After that, those will then develop into, like, a really dark I think it's a droop, but some type of small fruit that is, like, a dark blue, almost black color. And it it's a birds will go after it. Actually, when we went to idea, we were in the fall semester, the birds had sort of already stripped several of the of the fruit off of the tree.

Chris Enroth: 28:33

We were able to find, like, I think one or two still remaining, but they they did their job there. So yeah, I just I really like white fringe tree, and this is going to be the one gracing the corner of my house, hopefully someday soon. It's it's on the plan, but I gotta find one first that I wanna put in my yard. And I guess also my question back to Ken, there was the issue because this is in the same family as the ash tree. The idea, or I guess, some entomologist at some point in time found that a white fringed tree had been attacked by EAB.

Chris Enroth: 29:13

Any any more news on that one?

Ken Johnson: 29:17

No. I haven't heard a whole lot about it after kind of that initial find. I don't think it's, you know, as big of a risk as maybe they thought it could be. Yeah. I haven't heard a whole lot about it after kind of that initial find.

Chris Enroth: 29:33

Okay. And and I that's kinda what I figured. If I'm not hearing about it, then it's probably was maybe a one off or that that fringe tree was already stressed to the point that it was maybe full of other types of bore or beetles, kind of maybe like the lilac with the lilac bore. They just they just attack the older stems of that plant. So it's just a baby.

Chris Enroth: 29:59

It's just gonna be part of its life cycle.

Ken Johnson: 30:01

I don't know.

Emily Swiha: 30:02

That's good news. I think that's glad to hear that. Yeah.

Ken Johnson: 30:07

Yeah. It's a fun article white French tree likely to withstand attacks from emerald ash borer in 2020. Good. So

Chris Enroth: 30:15

alright. That's good news and enough for me to put it in the ground. So, Emily, what's your third tree on the list?

Emily Swiha: 30:23

Well, I'm glad you asked. Thank you. So I had a couple of smaller sized trees, and now I'm going I'm going big. And it is the and also, this one's a little bit later blooming, so Ken and I had debated with the the cotopo also, like, do we stop with the spring interest? So I get it.

Emily Swiha: 30:43

I'm still counting this as spring because technically, I think it does bloom before we turn to summer. But so this is the tulip tree. I think I have mentioned my love for the tulip tree on this program before, and if I haven't, let me start now, and I will forever do it. The Liriodendron Tulipifera. This is I I can't say enough about the tree.

Emily Swiha: 31:07

So it's huge. It can get to be about 90 feet tall. It's more columnar, though, so I think it makes it really versatile and unique for community plantings. It doesn't spread as much. So a lot of times when we have these trees that are enormous, they're enormous vertically and horizontally.

Emily Swiha: 31:26

So they can limit the spaces that we can put them in, whereas the tulip tree does stay more it's more columnar, so about a 40 foot spread, 40, maybe 50, if it's the world champion. But it's just got these really it's relatively quickly growing, so it can kind of fill in the space too, but it's not overly weak wooded. I don't find it to fall. That's often the trade off. Right?

Emily Swiha: 31:54

And so they kind of generally speaking, the faster growing trees do have weaker wood and don't tend to live as long. Liriodendron doesn't really have that didn't get that memo. It it doesn't really fall apart. I've seen some really well formed, stately, mature tulip trees that you know, kind of in harsh conditions too. So they're really lovely, mature trees.

Emily Swiha: 32:20

Their leaves are unique. They have these, like, four lobed, kind of flat tipped, like, shaped leaves. They're once you've seen one and learn to identify it, there's nothing else like it in the Midwest as far as I know, and I don't associate anything or mix anything else up with the tulip tree leaf. And so really, really cool, unreliable yellow fall color. That's maybe it's only one mark against it, but that's fine in my, you know, in my opinion.

Emily Swiha: 32:50

The tulip part of the common name comes from the form of the flowers. They look like tulips are kind of like a tulip shape, that cup shape. And the coloration on these is unbeatable. So they have, like, a yellowish green, leaf, but then they have a band of orange, like, around the base of it. It's so distinct.

Emily Swiha: 33:14

It's really, really cool, and it sits upright on the, leaves kinda later in the spring. They don't bloom until about year fifteen. Like, they have be a more mature tree, so they're it's just everything is kinda robust about it. So it takes a cup you know, a few years for it to get established and and reach that maturity level. But then then they those flowers, like, persist, and they've got a kind of cool seed seed pod cluster that persists on the trees, and they eventually just fall apart and kinda just blow off and, like, disappear in the wind as individual seeds.

Emily Swiha: 33:45

But they're about two inches in size, and I could go on and on and on about this tree. I planted two outside of my house. Actually so, Ken, I'm glad you said catalpa, because when I am old and much more gray than I am right now, I will be looking at my catalpa trees in the distance, and it'll be framed by these two tulip trees that I planted. And so it'll just be my version of heaven. And mine haven't bloomed yet, and so I I will let you guys know when it blooms.

Emily Swiha: 34:15

You'll get lots of pictures. But just a really neat there are some challenges. There are some, like, health problems. Potentially, there's aphids and scale. Like, I haven't seen powdery mildew affect these trees, but I I know it can.

Emily Swiha: 34:30

I just haven't witnessed it. So I I worth the risk to me. They're so pretty. They're so pretty. So anyways.

Emily Swiha: 34:40

Oh, and it's in the Magnoliaceae family. So it's it's a magnolia, which is a fun fact to talk to about the dinner table when everybody's captive audience. You

Chris Enroth: 34:53

can't leave.

Emily Swiha: 34:55

You can't leave. Let me tell you about this. So

Chris Enroth: 34:59

I I do get a lot of questions. It seems like with the tulip poplar, someone will call in and say, there's this residue all over my car, my patio furniture. Yeah. Ken, what is this this it turns dark too. What is this residue accumulating all over people's stuff underneath these trees?

Ken Johnson: 35:22

Your honeydew and then sooty mold. Mhmm. This is for your aphids, your mealybugs, your piercing sucking mouthparts, you know, they'll release excess sugars in the form of honeydew, and then a fungus will grow on it, which is your sooty mold, which doesn't affect the plant. Well, it's not infecting the plant. It's growing on the the the honeydew.

Ken Johnson: 35:42

It will block photosynthesis, but it's not actually a disease attacking the plant itself. So just wash it off, which may be easier said than done.

Chris Enroth: 35:54

I I have been in the canopy of a tula poplar before that had aphids. And I will say because this person, they really wanted to spray their tree. And I'm like, I don't want we shouldn't do that. I went up there and I looked around and on every leaf that had aphids also had a convergent lady beetle on it. So and it was just loaded with beneficial predator insects.

Chris Enroth: 36:20

And it was an interesting battle, I think, going on on a few parts of the tree between the ants and the predator insects. So you have a whole thing going on over your head when you have this tulip poplar, and it's really neat. So if you do have aphids, I would encourage you not to spray. Let nature play out.

Emily Swiha: 36:40

The whole ecosystem Mhmm. Get out there. Yeah.

Ken Johnson: 36:45

Nature finds a way.

Chris Enroth: 36:46

Yes.

Emily Swiha: 36:46

Yeah. Yep. Yep. No. Alright.

Emily Swiha: 36:51

Ken, do you have another tree?

Ken Johnson: 36:53

I did, but it blooms in the summer, so I'll save that for another day. And we voted no.

Emily Swiha: 37:02

That's alright. We'll wait we'll wait eagerly to hear about that one. Chris, do you have another one, or did I just I got I have a whole list, so I'll just resist going on.

Chris Enroth: 37:11

I I think I've mentioned it many times. If you have listened or watched this podcast before, you have seen pictures of the saucer magnolia in my backyard. Mhmm. That's Magnolia exologiana, and that x stands for hybrid. And it is so it's a cross of two different magnolias.

Chris Enroth: 37:28

It's Magnolia denudata and liliflora. Those and they produced a tree that we always look forward to every year. And as I've reported for this year, we have totally lost all the flowers off of that tree with that nine degree cold snap we got a few weeks ago. So we're sad, but that that's always something we look forward to in the spring. Since we're not gonna have the magnolia flowers, we're gonna have to go look at my next one on my list, and that is black gum or nissas sylvatica.

Chris Enroth: 38:03

So this is a tree I just put in my yard two years ago, I think now, or maybe on year three. I love, not the flowers, the emerging leaves. They emerge from bud red. They have this really neat red this gradation kind of from red to green. I I it just it's a favorite part of the spring when I go out and I see these leaves emerging and this kind of really bright red color and good fall color as well.

Chris Enroth: 38:34

This is another one of those trees that can be that can produce a fruit for birds, but they're dioecious, so you need a male and female plants for these. Very often and I'm assuming this in the nursery, they're gonna be selling the male. But but I I didn't ask when I bought my tree. I'm just like, oh, black gum. I'm taking it.

Chris Enroth: 38:57

And I planted it. So, yeah, a very I think a very useful tree ecologically speaking. Aesthetically speaking, we need to have more of these in people's yards. I'm excited to grow it.

Emily Swiha: 39:13

Yeah. Excellent choice. I also have one in my yard. The they have flowers. They're just really small white flowers, and so they're there.

Emily Swiha: 39:20

But, yeah, the foliage is cool. The structure can be really cool. It can be, again, like that horizontal structure. Probably not as aggressive as the dogwood, but still, you know, open, canopy, pyramidal in form. Very, very cool.

Emily Swiha: 39:36

Excellent choice. And way to go with the, like, leaves. That is a brilliant observation. I had an honorable mention for bald cypress because, like, when it when those leaves come out, it just looks so fluffy, and, like, it's just got a really it's, like, soft, cool texture

Chris Enroth: 39:51

Yes.

Emily Swiha: 39:52

Visually to it. Like, I just wanna, like

Chris Enroth: 39:54

Hug the tree.

Emily Swiha: 39:55

If if I'm gonna I'm gonna hug a tree, it's gonna be a bald cypress in the the spring for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Love Nisses lavatica. I agree.

Emily Swiha: 40:05

They're kind of hard to find. They're getting more available. But for a while there, it was very hard to find your black gum or your black Tupelo.

Ken Johnson: 40:13

True.

Emily Swiha: 40:14

And so

Chris Enroth: 40:15

Well Yeah. Emily, Ken's done. I that's the end of my list. What else do you have for us today?

Emily Swiha: 40:23

I'll stop with just this one that I think I'm, like, cheating on, but I couldn't help but mention vernal witch hazel. It is like a large shrub, but mine bloomed, like, in February, the February. There there's really small, you know, flowers. It's honestly only, like, tree nerds kind of, like, really get excited about this tree, but it's a really valuable habitat, you know, like, food source for some of those really early emerging insects. So Ken, shout out to you.

Emily Swiha: 40:57

And really cool leaves. It's it's just I don't know. I love that it bloom it's, like, one of the earliest blooming things. And so I think, like, props for for having the gumption to bloom so dang early because you're gonna get snowed on. You're it's gonna get frosted, and it just persists.

Emily Swiha: 41:14

And so I just yeah. Vernal witch hazel. I had to I had to throw that in there.

Chris Enroth: 41:21

And let me try to say the scientific name. Is it Hamamela Hamamelella? Hamamel I can't say it. Hamamel hamamelis. Hamamelis.

Chris Enroth: 41:31

Hamamelis. There we go. Thank you. There's so many m's.

Emily Swiha: 41:37

Yes. Yes. Hememememememalis.

Chris Enroth: 41:39

Yes. Yes. Okay. Hememalis. Hememalis.

Emily Swiha: 41:43

Yeah.

Chris Enroth: 41:43

K. Thank you. I've I've gone my whole life not knowing how to say that one.

Emily Swiha: 41:49

It's okay. Alright. We'll revisit it as often as you need.

Chris Enroth: 41:53

So it'll be my my warm up before every show.

Emily Swiha: 41:59

Alright. And I'll try to say liriodendron. That's the one I have to, like, slow down for.

Chris Enroth: 42:03

I'd love that one too. Yes. Trees have the best scientific names. Sorry, other plant forms.

Emily Swiha: 42:12

Trees are just best. Everybody just this is why we're doing a whole month of them. Maybe we'll continue into May. I'm sure Ken will lobby for that. We'll just now we're a tree podcast, maybe.

Chris Enroth: 42:23

Come back, Ken. No. Come back.

Ken Johnson: 42:25

Where are

Chris Enroth: 42:25

you going? What come on?

Emily Swiha: 42:27

Kidding. I'm kidding. Fun. This is fun. We're having fun.

Ken Johnson: 42:30

Talk about the things that eat the trees and kill the trees.

Emily Swiha: 42:33

Sure. Oh, kill. Why'd you have to go there?

Ken Johnson: 42:37

We gotta talk about the diseases too.

Chris Enroth: 42:40

That's true.

Emily Swiha: 42:41

Yes. And how to prevent them because we want all of the trees alive.

Chris Enroth: 42:45

Yep. That's why we're here. Well, that was a lot of great information about our favorite spring trees, whether they're blooms, they're leaves, they're structure. There's a lot of things that can go into making a tree stand out on a particular season. We always kind of want those four seasons interest but hey, spring, this is the character we're looking for this time of year.

Chris Enroth: 43:07

Well, the Good Growing podcast production of University of Illinois Extension edited this week by Ken Johnson and Emily, thanks so much as we forage forward this month of trees of April. So thank you for being here.

Emily Swiha: 43:22

Oh, my pleasure. And I have to go to the the nursery. I have some more things I need to buy now thanks to, these lists.

Chris Enroth: 43:28

Exactly. The lists are impossibly long anymore. And Ken, thank you so much for hanging out today, tolerating the tree talk. And we hey. We try to get some some some insects in there for you.

Chris Enroth: 43:44

And so thanks for being here today.

Ken Johnson: 43:46

Yes. Thank you. And I'm gonna go buy a lottery ticket so I can get enough land to plant all my list on my stuff on my list. And Emily, Chris, let's do this again next week.

Chris Enroth: 43:58

Oh, we shall do this again next week. The tree talk continues as we go through April. Arbor day is fast approaching, so we are looking forward to next week's tree topic. Well, listeners, thank you for doing what you do best and that is listening or if you watched us on YouTube watching. And as always, keep on growing.

Ken Johnson: 44:25

University of Illinois Extension.