Amy: 00:06

Welcome to another episode of the Everyday Environment podcast where we explore the environment we see every day. I'm your host, Amy Lefringhouse.

Abigail: 00:14

And I'm your cohost, Abigail Garofalo.

Amy: 00:17

And today, we are here with Hannah Griffis. She is the volunteer coordinator for National Great Rivers, and she is here to talk about the River Watch program and water quality as a whole. So welcome, Hannah. Thank you for being with us.

Hannah: 00:36

I'm happy to be here.

Amy: 00:37

Good. Good. Well, I was just talking about how I had, driven by your facility down there near the is it the Melvin Price Lock And Dam?

Hannah: 00:48

Yep.

Amy: 00:49

Yeah. The National Great Rivers Center, I guess, you would say, has a long title. But I guess to get started today, Hannah, just tell us a little bit about the work that you do there and, you know, yeah, just your background today before we get started.

Hannah: 01:05

Yeah. So I work at the National Great Rivers, and I am the volunteer coordinator there for one of their community science programs called Illinois RiverWatch. And so I also work on some of the other community science programs, but RiverWatch is my main focus. And so I am kind of the main face that our volunteers interact with. So I do a lot of the outreach for it, recruiting volunteers, training volunteers, keeping the data, and things like that.

Abigail: 01:36

Dream job. That sounds lovely. Volunteers. I just think that, like, to give your time freely to the natural resources is really cool, like and the people who do it are just a special kind of people, so in a good way.

Hannah: 01:49

Yeah. I agree. It's my favorite part is the interactions with the volunteers.

Amy: 01:54

I'm always surprised too at how passionate. if they commit to, you know, your program, whatever it may be, especially in natural resources, they're committed, they're passionate, they dive really deep into the topic, sometimes more than, you know, those of us as coordinators. You know? and then they share that knowledge, which I think is I don't know. It's always just amazing like you guys were saying.

Amy: 02:23

And you get to you get to, you know, cross crisscross the state too and get to see all different streams and people all over everywhere. Right?

Hannah: 02:32

Yeah. I feel like I am the most familiar with everything in Illinois. Like, I feel like I get to go to all areas of the state, which I grew up in Northern Illinois, so that was really just my area that I knew in exploring. And, like, it's so different down south.

Amy: 02:49

Mhmm.

Abigail: 02:50

We're all wishing that Erin was here to say, yes. It is, because she knows too. That's our other our other podcast host.

Abigail: 02:57

So, you know, RiverWatch, it's studying our rivers and streams. why study water quality? What's important about understanding the quality of our water and streams in Illinois?

Hannah: 03:09

I think the easiest way to understand is the reference for humans. So we get all of our drinking water from our fresh water in the area. We also use it for recreation, and, honestly, it's just it supports all of our living life. Like, nobody can survive without water. So not only is it important for us to have good quality water, it is also important for all of the plants and animals in our environment.

Hannah: 03:37

And for the most part, the things that harm water quality are coming from humans, so it's important that we are the ones that are doing something about it.

Abigail: 03:47

Yeah. And we can't do anything about it if we don't assess it in the first place. Right? Like, we gotta know what's going on.

Hannah: 03:53

If you don't know there's a problem, you can't fix it.

Amy: 03:57

Absolutely. I think that sometimes we don't know what we don't know either. You know, we're just kinda rolling along developing as humans and developing new products and new practices on our land and this and that and the other. And sometimes we don't realize maybe the level of impact that we might have on, you know, some things that we take for granted, which might be, you know, water. And if you travel travel the world too, sometimes we do take our clean water for granted. So keeping track of the quality of that water, yeah, is immense.

Hannah: 04:32

Yeah. And it's really important for fresh water because only 3% of the world's water is freshwater. And of that, only we only have access to 0.3% of that, because the rest of it's frozen or too far underground for us to access.

Amy: 04:49

Interesting point. Yeah. And our rivers and I mean, obviously, we have several major river systems kind of on both sides of our state. Right? I live right on the Mississippi River.

Amy: 05:00

Hannah, you guys are down there in Alton on the Mississippi River. And, yeah, we think it's everywhere. Right? I mean, it's here, there, and everywhere, but you don't realize it's, not everywhere.

Abigail: 05:15

We're a little bit of a a state defined by water. Like, I think a lot of our borders are rivers, and streams. And so it's it's interesting to think about.

Amy: 05:25

And our and Lake Michigan. We've got, you know, that border up there by you, Abigail, which is what do they say? Salt life? Those salt life stickers. But if you've ever gone into any of the to any of the beaches along there, like, along Lake Michigan, but on Michigan side, they have, like I can't remember what the sticker says, but it's something like freshwater life or something like that. You know? As, like, the the opposite of the salt life stickers stickers people put on the backs of their cars. I think that's funny.

Amy: 05:57

Well, in studying our water quality, so if we wanna figure out what is out there, how would we measure, and what types of things would we use as indicators for for water quality?

Hannah: 06:10

Yeah. So most often, people think of water quality in terms of chemistry. So taking, like, specialized equipment out and getting water samples and measuring the chemistry of it, like the dissolved oxygen and the phosphorus and nitrogen that's in the water and things like that, which chemistry is a really important part of monitoring water quality, but it's not the only aspect to look at. So another way to monitor water quality is using bioindicators. So that's using living organisms to tell us about what is happening in the environment.

Hannah: 06:49

So this can be done in both terrestrial and aquatic environments of people looking at what organisms are living there, to get an idea of the healthiness of the environment. For aquatic environments, a lot of the time, that is looking at fish and macroinvertebrates, which are water bugs.

Abigail: 07:07

Aquatic ecosystems always kind of just, like, slipp my mind, and probably by the end of the season, I won't feel that way. Right? But I it I'm thinking about, you know, like, land things too. Like, we have a a c value for certain plants. Right? I think it's I don't know if aquatic plants are part of that scientific valuation. Amy's like, I don't know either. But I I'm familiar with them for terrestrial plants and, like, basically, like, a one to a ten, and ten being, like, that's the highest level of conservation. Right?

Abigail: 07:40

And one being, like, it's kind of aggressive, zero being nonnative. And so, like, when we have, like, a land like, a terrestrial ecosystem and, like, the average C value is pretty low, that tells us something about, like, the, quality of that ecosystem. And so it's it's I'm kind of, like, equating that to, like, this idea of, like, the the community of macroinvertebrates that exists there. Those are kind of telling us that quality as well. And it's interesting to think about that.

Abigail: 08:11

Like, we have all these systems, and water just is a little bit different because it's really, like, the organisms are, like, enveloped in all of the pieces. Right? Like, there's no escaping, really. And that I really and the the way that they take in different nutrients and oxygen and things like that really kind of impacts how how much kind of, like, contamination or things like that they they take into their bodies. So it's interesting to think about.

Hannah: 08:39

Yeah. So when we're looking at the macroinvertebrates, it's really similar to that. They have been they're, like, really well studied, and they all have all of the ones that we use as bioindicators have a known tolerance to pollution. So then they're assigned a number based on that known tolerance. So, if they can't live in pollution, they get a lower number closer to zero like the caddisflies and mayflies.

Hannah: 09:05

But then if they can tolerate pollution and they can pretty much live anywhere, then they get a higher number, like our bloodworm midges, our, for RiverWatch, that's our highest, tolerance value organism. So then we basically when we collect all the macroinvertebrates and see which ones are there, we can get an idea based on those numbers, how healthy a water body is.

Abigail: 09:30

That's like golf. The lower the number, the better.

Amy: 09:32

Yeah. I think it's cool too because, you know, we talk a lot about plants. I think the three of us on this podcast that are on here regularly are kinda plant lovers. You know, when I'm walking around with the forester, we're looking for in you know, indicator species is gonna show us that, oh, this war forest is healthy, and plants stay still. Right?

Amy: 09:55

We can go back out there to the to the woods or to the prairie or whatever and find that plant again most of the time. You know? But then this idea of in a stream, thinking of moving, you know, organisms, thinking, you know, wildlife, I guess, if you will. There's probably a a little bit of a different procedure to, you know, figure out that water quality or catch, I guess, catch those organically, things like that.

Amy: 10:24

So I guess tell us a little bit we talked a little bit about my macroinvertebrates, and we'll probably go into them a little bit more. But overall, we mentioned RiverWatch. So talk about the program and how it relates to, you know, studying water quality And maybe some of its history too. I was involved with it a really long time ago when I was in college.

Hannah: 10:50

Yeah. So RiverWatch is a statewide community science program. So just a little background on community science first. That is where, the general public or volunteers come out and help scientists collect the data. So RiverWatch is a community science program that's statewide, and we train volunteers to collect water quality data.

Hannah: 11:13

So that water quality data looks like a habitat survey, so that's where they're looking at, the plants, what sediment is in a stream, how fast and big the stream is, things like that. And then they do a biological survey where they collect macroinvertebrates, and then identify them and figure out the our main metric that we use is called the macroinvertebrate biotic index. So that's basically an average of all those tolerance values to get a an average number of what's going on in there. And a little bit of background on the program is we originally started in 1995. So this will be our thirtieth year, our thirtieth anniversary.

Hannah: 11:56

It was started by the Illinois Department of Natural Resources and was originally under a wider program called EcoWatch Network, but they lost funding for it in 2004. And so in 2006, National Great Rivers, took over the program and has been running it since then. So we do have some sites that have been monitored for ... I think we might have one or two that have been monitored for all thirty years, but quite a few sites that have been monitored for more than twenty years.

Abigail: 12:28

That's such powerful data to get that kind of long term because a lot of the times sometimes we go into sites afterwards to find out, you know, like, what happened. Oh, the levels of, you know, certain pollutants are this high. Well, what was it twenty years ago? Like, what's the difference now? And if we don't have that data like, in soil, that's invaluable.

Abigail: 12:47

Right? We have some old soil samples. There was a project from from University of Illinois in which they were doing those kinds of sampling of, like, hundred year old soil data and then going back and finding the original sites now. And, like, to be able to have that comparison over time is just crazy, especially given too, like, this focus on restoring our waterways and, nutrient reduction or loss reduction and things like that. Like, are we being effective in the work that we're doing, and, what do we need to do differently? So twenty year data. Wow. That's really great. Thirty year data in some places.

Amy: 13:23

That is really cool. When you're looking at that data, and I'm going a little I guess I'm going one step further, and maybe we can go backwards too. But, like, what do you do with that data? So I guess and we could talk more. I I feel like we need to dive deeper into what community science is, but I guess my mind is like, okay. Cool. So we have volunteers out there. They're looking at this the the macroinvertebrates. They're looking at these streams. They're sending their data to you, Hannah. Like and then what?

Amy: 13:53

So we have so what do you do after that? Does it go somewhere else where we're making plans to, you know, figure something out with the really streams that we see that might have some really bad issues?

Hannah: 14:06

Yeah. So RiverWatch as a program is more of like a data hub. So we collect all this data, and then we give it to people when they ask for it. So, generally, our data as a whole is not really being used. Like, we are gonna put some publications out with it, but in terms of, like, policy and stuff like that, it's not really being used in that way.

Hannah: 14:31

But it's generally used more for, like, smaller projects. So, like, if a city wants to do a restoration project, they'll ask us for our data so they can have before data and then after data or a lot of forest preserves or park districts. We'll use it for things like that. And then, like, we have people monitoring in Midewin, and they use their data in Nachusa Grasslands. And so it's a lot more like smaller projects that the data is being used for and compared, but the data as a whole, we haven't done that much with yet.

Abigail: 15:01

I mean, these smaller projects, those are usually projects that don't have the capacity to gather that data themselves. Yeah. And then even too, like, a unified measurement across the state, like, everybody's using the same metrics. I mean, there's a lot of potential there and to, like, compare you know, if somebody ever wanted to look and say, like, well, Nachusa is doing this, and they've been measuring their water qual like, their water quality is measured. And Midewin is doing this, and their water quality is measured in the same exact way

Abigail: 15:37

They can actually do, like, an an apples to apples comparison, which is so cool. Because a lot of the time, it's, like, different data collection, right, methods Right. Across projects. So, yeah, really awesome service to science.

Amy: 15:51

That's a good point. I think when I first started back in the day when I was going to school and getting ready to go into my career, you know, I learned about different community science programs, and I was like, oh, no big deal. We just all go out and do the same thing. And then I think I went somewhere in Chicago, and they were developing a new community science program, and I don't even remember what the program was. And they talked about how long it took to develop the protocols and learn from, you know, testing it, piloting the protocol.

Amy: 16:29

Did we get the data that we wanted? Is the data good data? Is there room for error that we can't, you know? So do you guys tweak any of those protocols or or look at that year to year based on, you know, your volunteer feedback and what you guys see from the data side?

Hannah: 16:52

Yeah. So we try really hard not to make any changes to the methods since we've been using the same methods for the last thirty years. We don't wanna change that at that at this point. But what we do change is our the way we train people. So we do have a quality assurance plan, and part of that plan is 30% of our samples every year, get double checked by a professional with Illinois Natural History Survey.

Hannah: 17:16

And then we compare the accuracy rates from the volunteers. And so based on the results of that, QA analysis, we will add things into our training to help people, particularly with identification , the macroinvertebrate identification, is where, we get the most errors in our, data. So we're not too worried about the methods. The methods are not that hard, but what is harder for people to learn is the macroinvertebrate identification. And we do go down to a farther level on our macroinvertebrate identification than the programs in The states around us, and that is to try to collect higher quality data.

Hannah: 17:56

But then that does leave room for more error training people who do not have a background in this. To be able to identify insects is not the easiest thing to do, but it does like, our QA data is pretty good. We shoot for, like, an 80% accuracy, so it is working. Yeah. I have a couple of questions. One, I wanna kinda back up a little bit. So when we say insects, if people aren't familiar with, you know, like, the insects we're discussing, what, like, what are these insects? Like, what do they look like? When I think insect, I think, you know, flying around a little bit. What are what are the insects that we're studying in, RiverWatch?

Hannah: 18:34

Yeah. So macro the term macroinvertebrates actually covers worms, crustaceans, insects, and mollusks. I tend to talk about insects and bugs a lot because that's the majority of what we're looking at, but we also get those other three, taxa as well. So for our worms, we're talking about things like flatworms and leeches. Our crustaceans, we're looking at things like, isopods, which are similar to, like, roly polys on our land, and crayfish.

Hannah: 19:06

And then the mollusks are snails and mussels. But then when we're talking about the insects, almost everything that we're talking about is their larval or their nymph phases, so the younger phases, not the adults. Most of the insects, pretty much all of them except for the beetles, will become terrestrial as adults. So they spend their larval stages in the water, and then they'll come up and molt. And when they become adults, they're terrestrial.

Abigail: 19:32

I always think that's so cool. I love doing pond dips with kids and being like, this is a dragonfly, and its jaw just flips out. Yeah.

Hannah: 19:43

Yeah. Kids get so excited about macroinvertebrates.

Amy: 19:47

And, well, I was I was just gonna add, I just remember when I was learning about macroinvertebrates, you know, micro versus macro. Right? So micro, things that we cannot see without a microscope, but macro being, you know, bugs and things in in the water that we can see with our own eyes, which makes it, you know, a lot easier for volunteers to be able to identify and work with.

Hannah: 20:13

Yeah. And I do just wanna clarify, they are still pretty small, but you can see them without a microscope.

Amy: 20:20

But looking at them underneath the microscope is is really, really cool. Really neat.

Hannah: 20:25

Yeah. Yeah.

Abigail: 20:27

I don't know. I've seen a mayfly, like, size of, like, my knuckle to my end of my pinky, which I feel like is a pretty big mayfly. But, yeah, some of them are really I would love to hear about, like so if a a volunteer is going out and, doing an assessment, what does that look like? Like, what are they doing out there?

Hannah: 20:47

Yeah. So they work on a 200 foot segment of a stream, and that is usually sites that they pick out for themselves. But if they need help finding a site, we will also suggest sites. So when they get out there, they'll measure out their site, and they start with the habitat survey. So they'll, draw a little site sketch to show what their site looks like so that, when they come back in the future, they can see if things are changing.

Hannah: 21:16

And then they'll do the habitat survey. So taking the temperature of the water and looking at the plants that are around and then, looking at the composition of the sediment of the stream. And then they'll do a flow measurement, so that is looking at the the width, the depth, and the velocity of the stream. And then they'll mark down the land uses, and then that's basically the whole habitat survey.

Abigail: 21:41

Is that through, like, the ping pong ball? Right?

Hannah: 21:43

Yeah. So they'll drop a practice golf ball or a practice, like, a ping pong ball, and they'll measure how long it takes for it to move 10 feet in the water, how long it, takes to float down in the water.

Abigail: 21:56

That's cool.

Hannah: 21:57

Yeah. So then the biological survey, they use what's called a D frame net. So it is what it sounds like. It is, like, in the shape of a D, and then there's a net behind it, and the pole's about five feet tall. And they'll put that into the sediment, and they'll basically use their feet to kick up the sediment.

Hannah: 22:15

And anything that's getting knocked loose while they're kicking around the sediment will flow into the net. And then they'll put that into a bucket, and then they'll sample a second spot. And then once they have their whole sample, they'll go through it and pick out basically anything that's moving. And for this program, we do require people to preserve the macroinvertebrates, so they get put into isopropyl alcohol, and then they will use a microscope to identify them in a lab.

Abigail: 22:42

Is there any discussion or or, like, I guess, like, data taken on invasives? Because I know, like, they have, like, rusty crayfish and things like that.

Hannah: 22:50

Yeah. So we do have a section on the biological data sheet where they mark down, whether certain species are present and absent. And so there's two natives we look for. We look for fingernail clams and freshwater mussels, so we have them mark if those are at their sites. We don't have them collect any of those or anything because a lot of them are threatened or endangered.

Hannah: 23:10

And then they'll look for, rusty crayfish, Asian clam, zebra mussels, and Chinese mystery snails are the ones that we currently have people looking for.

Amy: 23:21

That's cool. If you were just listening to this, it sounds like you have to use a lot of equipment. So are there is there ways that volunteers can get equipment then?

Hannah: 23:30

Yeah. So there it isn't too much equipment that you need. It's basically a bucket, a net, and then stuff to measure, like, the flow. But we do have, kit hosts throughout the state, so you can check out a monitoring kit from one of those places that hosts it, and then you can go out and do your survey and then return it.

Abigail: 23:48

Right. Cook County, University of Illinois Extension is a host. So we have one in our Westchester Extension office in up here. So, anyway, listening is like, oh, I wanna do that. We got the host. So but after you get trained. So Yeah.

Amy: 24:07

Okay. Equipment. So if we wanted to volunteer, Hannah, like, I guess, what would we do? What is the, like, training season and then the sampling season and then, you know, how does it flow throughout the year? What would be our first steps if we wanted to be like, yes. we have a stream that I know of here in my community, and I'd really like to start monitoring that. How would they go about, you know, contacting you and and starting that process?

Hannah: 24:37

Yeah. So the training workshops are usually held in March through early May, so they should be announced right now.

Amy: 24:48

Alright.

Hannah: 24:49

So a training workshop is currently it is a six to eight hour day training. It costs $50 for adults. Kids are allowed to attend for free, but they must attend with an adult. And, during that training workshop, the first part of the day will be inside where we're mostly spending the whole time learning how to identify all the macroinvertebrates. So they get to look through a microscope, and I believe it's I believe we teach the volunteers how to identify 36 different kinds.

Hannah: 25:21

And then we'll have a lunch break, and then we will go outside, to a nearby stream and demonstrate the field methods. So the afternoon is all about basically just walking through the survey sheets and how to collect all the data. And then once volunteers are trained, the monitoring season, the main part of it is May and June. So when you adopt a site, you only need to monitor it once per year. So if you only have one site, you're only going out once, but some people will choose to adopt more than one site so they can go out more than once.

Hannah: 25:55

So the main monitoring season is May and June, and then we have an optional secondary one that is September and October. And that's for if people want to collect more data on their streams, they're welcome to do that. Or if they just really couldn't get out during the summer, they can go out in September and October. And then we have open labs in July and August. So after people collect their macroinvertebrate samples and they leave their site with a preserved sample jar, they can bring that to our open labs and use our microscopes.

Hannah: 26:26

And then we usually have a staff member there who can help with identification.

Abigail: 26:30

And that that's in Alton?

Hannah: 26:32

We'll hold the open labs in the same areas that we do our training workshops. Yeah. Both are both are we usually have 10 to 15 spread out through the whole state.

Abigail: 26:41

Very cool. And you announce your trainings on the website?

Hannah: 26:45

Yeah. So they'll be on the website. They'll be on our Facebook page. That's our social media that we use the most often. They'll be announced in our newsletter, which there's a sign up for our newsletter on our website as well.

Abigail: 26:58

And, hopefully, we'll include some in the email that goes out with this podcast. Yeah. Awesome. Well, I guess my last question for you, is kind of just a little bit of under trying to understand, I guess, the structure of the project. Why community science?

Abigail: 27:15

Why not researchers doing this data collection? They're, like, professional scientists, I guess.

Hannah: 27:21

So I'm gonna start with the benefit to the volunteers. So community science engages the volunteers with science that I feel like is not done in other ways and other outreach. Like, you don't fully understand the scientific process until you're doing it and getting involved with it. And it also helps create scientific literacy and helps people stay informed with their problems. And then it also helps form a community between the volunteers for them to connect over things they care about.

Hannah: 27:54

But in the terms of benefits for the scientists, we can reach a lot more areas and spend a lot more time, collecting data than we would if it was just this two of us, me, and the director of RiverWatch going out to collect data. So an example of this is the Illinois EPA, does their statewide stream monitoring, and they only hit about 15% of the stream miles in Illinois when they go out to do that. So there's really lots of areas of the state that are not being looked at by scientists until there's already a problem. So having this data from coming from volunteers before a problem is happening is really helpful.

Abigail: 28:36

I'm just thinking about too, like, how much you personally learn as a person who's just taking an assessment of a site over time. You know, I like that there's the optional fall one as well, because you can just see how things change. When I train my master naturalists, and they're like, I really wanna, like, be really good at, like, identification, like, the people who walked me through this prairie or whatever. And I'm like, they're really good at it because they are at that site.

Abigail: 29:04

They assess that site. They're in the ground looking at it, and they're looking at the plants and the animals and identifying and things like that. And so, like, being part of your community in that way, part of your ecosystem in that way is, like, really special and allows you to learn so much more than, you know, sitting on a webinar saying these are the, you know, 18 macroinvertebrates that you could know. You all bring examples and samples for people to actually look at through the microscopes, which is so cool and so valuable, and then they get to actually go see that. And then they can say, that's what my stream has.

Abigail: 29:40

Like, they feel this personal tie and connection to the land, which is really wonderful.

Hannah: 29:45

Yeah. And it's also really beneficial to the scientists to have that volunteer perspective. Since we're a statewide program, we don't know what's going on in all of these communities. So, like, if a volunteer finds something going on in their data, they can already have ideas. Like, hey. I know this construction project happened last winter, so could this be affecting my data? So having that community perspective is really helpful when interpreting the data.

Amy: 30:11

Yeah. Good point. Well and you guys the RiverWatch program provides such great support too, so you're not just out there trying to do it all on your own.

Amy: 30:22

I mean, you're out there. You do a lot of it on your own, but there's also like, if you get stuck, you you know, you guys have a good safety net, a good way to help volunteers out if they, you know, feel intimidated by, you know, identifying things on their own. You have, obviously, the pretraining, but also the support afterwards. You know, I'm sure take a picture, email it, you know, all those Yeah. Types of things as well. So that's that's great for a volunteer to feel supported like that.

Amy: 30:53

Well, is there anything else, I guess, before we wrap up, Hannah, is there anything else you wanna cover about the RiverWatch program or just water quality in general that we didn't hit on today?

Hannah: 31:04

Yeah. I just wanted to say that, I mean, this whole podcast, we've been talking about how great RiverWatch, but RiverWatch is only great because of our volunteers. Like, we would be nothing if these people weren't giving their time to go out and collect this data. So I just wanna say, especially coming up with our thirtieth anniversary, how important our volunteers are to us and how much we appreciate them.

Amy: 31:27

I would echo that.

Abigail: 31:30

All of us were like, yes.

Amy: 31:32

Yes. Say it again. Say it again. On the megaphone

Abigail: 31:37

Yeah. At the top of the podcast, we said this. There's just, like, something special about volunteers that, like, wanna devote themselves to time, their extra time and effort. You know, we don't have a ton of extra time in in this world, when it comes to all the work that we do. And I just, to take some of that to devoting to understanding the world around us a little bit more and contribute to science is really, really cool.

Amy: 32:02

Mhmm. Agreed. Well, congratulations, Hannah, and your team on thirty years. That's pretty amazing. And, really, thank you so much for being on our podcast today, Hannah, and just discussing, you know, water quality and how we can be involved and actually being active in, monitoring our water quality in our community communities.

Amy: 32:25

Like every episode, we end our episode with a space called everyday observation where we highlight the mundane and the normal of our environment that is actually really interesting. So I'm gonna kick it off, or kick it over there to you, Abigail. Do you have an everyday observation that you'd like to share with us today?

Abigail: 32:47

I do, and it's gonna feel a little out of place because right now, we're recording the week after Thanksgiving. And so it is, like like, late fall, early winter kind of vibes, And, this is going to be released in the spring. So I'm gonna take all of our listeners back a couple of months as I explain this. And so I'm in Northern Illinois. My family lives in Central Illinois.

Abigail: 33:12

And pretty much up here, like, all the leaves were gone. And I went to Central Illinois, and I was like, man, nobody, like, rakes their leaves here, which, like, I'm not one to be, like, rake your leaves, but it will cause, like, death of the grass if you don't rake it more than 30% of the grass covered. And so there were, like, mats of leaves. And I was talking to my mom, and I was like, mom, like, does your, like, do your neighbors just, like, not do that? And she was like, no.

Abigail: 33:39

They all dropped in one day because it got so cold. And I was like, oh, like, that's wild to think about that, like and also, like, wow. Real big check on myself for being so judgy. Right? But I was just thinking about it.

Abigail: 33:54

I was like, wow. Like, I wonder you know, I wanna understand that physiological process a little bit more as to, like, when the drop and why the drop and and dropping all at once versus a few at a time. Chris Enroth, I believe, in the Good Growing podcast. Right, Amy? He released one that was just specifically about, like, why leaves change color and what the, like, ecological adaptation and the advantages of that is.

Abigail: 34:23

And I, like, just keep thinking about that and thinking about that. So definitely everybody listening, go check out that episode about, like, why leaves change color and why it's beneficial for them to, like, hold on to them as long as possible. Really, really neat short bite of an episode. But it just kinda made me think and ask myself why all at once when certain temperatures happen.

Amy: 34:43

Curious. So that's my observation. I like that. I like that a lot.

Hannah: 34:47

Mine's related. Can I go next?

Amy: 34:49

Go. You go. Yes.

Hannah: 34:52

So mine is also has to do with the leaves just dropping recently. And I actually really like this time of year when the leaves drop because it is my favorite thing to see all the nests in the trees, because you can't see them whenever the leaves are there, and then suddenly the leaves are gone. And it's like, I didn't know I had six nests in this tree right next to my apartment.

Amy: 35:15

Yeah.

Hannah: 35:16

So that's just generally being able to see those nests even if there's nobody in them. I think it's really cool to see the structure of them.

Amy: 35:23

I totally agree with that. in a tree that's in, near me, we didn't realize there was a hornet nest, up there too that we were just like, oh my gosh. We didn't realize that was there. It was so totally hidden. It's way up at the top of the tree, and we didn't know it was there. And then leaves fell and ta da.

Abigail: 35:45

Yeah. All those squirrel nests.

Amy: 35:48

Yeah.

Abigail: 35:48

I love talking to people who don't know what those are and be like, no. Those are squirrel those are not just like a bunch of, like, leaves that didn't fall. Like, that was intentional there,

Amy: 35:56

and it's cool. Yeah. They're pretty messy, aren't they?

Abigail: 35:59

They're so messy.

Amy: 36:00

They're like, here here here. Let's just have fun.

Hannah: 36:02

But the inside is different than the outside. Like, it's not like the inside has, like, a different material because that's what they use for the bedding. So it does have structure, but, yeah, it just looks like a pile of leaves.

Amy: 36:12

That's interesting. I'm gonna go down the same path. I feel like I mean, again, we are in the spring, but I've been noticing this is just another notice I guess, noticing nature moment that the bark of trees. I don't know. I'm in this kind of, like we've we did a tree inventory in our community, and I've been noticing the bark of trees.

Amy: 36:36

And it's spring right now when we re when we release this podcast, so probably not a lot of leaves developing quite yet. But looking at that bark can tell you a lot. And the more and more I work on just my identification skills for trees, the more and more I am just noticing the bark, the bark, you know, structure, the bark patterns, the type of bark, and then just, you know, categorizing that with, you know, what species of tree they are. And just the bark, you can almost tell. Just tell what type of tree it is by the bark just really quickly, a lot of times without having any leaves on.

Amy: 37:19

So, just that continuing practice that I'm working through, I guess I'm appreciating more than I've ever had before just, that bark texture.

Abigail: 37:32

That's a really developed skill set because I feel like it's all you know, like, when when you initially before you learn plants, there's, like, this term plant blindness of, like, I don't I they're all just plants. Right?

Amy: 37:43

Right.

Abigail: 37:43

feel like bark is kind of that sense, but, like, it's, like, the next level up after you know how to identify the leaves. You're like, yeah. That of course, that bark's different. But, like, for me, like, unless it's, like, the warty bark or, like, the, black cherry tree.

Abigail: 37:58

I, like, super like, people will be like, of course, that's a white oak bark. Don't you know? And I'm like, actually, I don't. Like, I really because it's a practice skill over time to, like, see those differences and make them a little more intuitive. So I'm it's really cool. I'm glad you're working on that skill.

Amy: 38:14

Well, it kinda goes back to what you're talking about with macroinvertebrates and just, like, wanting to be better at identification of macroinvertebrates. It's like any skill or sport or whatever practice, practice, practice. Right? Mhmm. Time you spend with macroinvertebrates over and over and over, the more you're like, oh, I got that.

Amy: 38:31

Oh, I got that. And I think any any identification work, my our master naturalist over here just did a a small pilot tree inventory for our community, and they were so excited about putting their identification skills into practice and into something that will be helpful for our community. And they're like, I just learned so much because we just kept doing it over and over and practicing it and, you know, recognizing the tree species a lot faster than anyway, fun fun stuff. Thank you again, Hannah, for being with us today. We really appreciate you, and we appreciate your time.

Hannah: 39:08

Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Amy: 39:11

Well, this has been another episode on the Everyday Environment podcast. Check us out next week where we talk with Sarah Zack, one of our favorite guests, and she is going to talk about new research on emerging contaminants in our waterways.

Abigail: 39:32

This podcast is a University of Illinois Extension production, hosted and edited by Abigail Garofalo, Erin Garrett, and Amy Lefringhouse.