Abigail Garofalo: 00:07

Welcome to another episode of the Everyday Environment podcast, where we explore the environment we see every day. I'm your host, Abigail Garofalo.

Erin Garrett: 00:15

And I'm your cohost, Erin Garrett.

Abigail Garofalo: 00:18

And today, we are here with Sarah Zack, the pollution prevention specialist for Illinois Indiana Sea Grant, and she is here to chat with us about emerging contaminants in water. Welcome, Sarah.

Sarah Zack: 00:29

Hello. Thank you for having me.

Abigail Garofalo: 00:31

We're excited to have you as our listeners know, we are talking about all things water this week, and Sarah is a longtime friend of the pod, having been on our podcast before it was Everyday Environment and when it's been Everyday Environment. And she's also actually been our consultant on our video series this year. And so it's been really great to work with her. We love working with Sarah, and we're just excited to learn a little bit more about, you know, what kind of contaminants we should worry about in water.

Abigail Garofalo: 00:59

And so I'm gonna get started with asking you, Sarah, just to kinda tell us about what is Sea Grant, what do you do with Sea Grant, and just a little bit about you in this field. Sure.

Sarah Zack: 01:09

So Illinois Indiana Sea Grant is one of 32, 30 three Sea Grant programs across the country, and they're all based at land grant universities. They were established in the sixties, so well after land grant extension services were established. But they're sort of co-located for the most part with land grant universities. And because Illinois and Indiana have such a small bit of coastline, we're a bistate program, one of only two bistate programs. And so all these Sea Grant programs are focused on coastal issues.

Sarah Zack: 01:42

So for us, it's Lake Michigan and the Great Lakes. There's also programs on Guam and Hawaii and California and New Hampshire and every coastline has a program. And so we're often seated with extension services because a lot of what we do is outreach and education just like extension services do. So we fit in, I think, really nicely with the extension model and, yeah, can kind of serve as really specialized specialists because we're mostly focused on water and Great Lakes issues.

Abigail Garofalo: 02:14

And what about your role as the pollution prevention specialist?

Sarah Zack: 02:17

Yeah. So my position is all about contamination of water. There is another person that also works with us, Eliana Brown. She deals primarily with, like, stormwater runoff and nutrient pollution, and I am focused more on emerging contaminants, not to bury the lead or spoil anything. So I focus on things like pharmaceuticals and microplastics and PFAS and other sort of, let's say, people centric contaminants. Right? Things that may be within our control and that we may be contributing to. Not really like, you know, industrial pollution and things like that, but more, you know, community based.

Erin Garrett: 02:57

That's really great to get an overview. I guess I didn't realize there's that many Sea Grants across the country so. That's really cool.

Sarah Zack: 03:03

It's a lot of fun to be a part of both Extension, like, here. So we're a part of, obviously, Extension on the Illinois side. We're at Purdue on the Indiana side, and then they're part of the Department of Forestry and Natural Resources. But then we also have the whole Sea Grant network across the country, which is a lot of fun.

Erin Garrett: 03:21

Yeah. For sure. Well, we're gonna dive into our topic, and you already started chatting about it because this is what you do. So we're really excited to have you to chat and share all your expertise. So let's just start with the basics. If we're talking emerging contaminants, what are we talking about?

Sarah Zack: 03:36

Yeah. So so these are substances that obviously are some form of pollution in water. And the United States Environmental Protection Agency has sort of a standard definition that they use to kind of classify whether or not a pollutant is emerging or not. And so it has to not have a regulatory standard. So there's no level that the federal government has determined or the state government, I guess, has determined, that we have to stay below for safety. It has to be something that was recently discovered, and I'm doing air quotes around discovered because what discovered could mean is that it's either new, a new chemical, or that we just recently found it because of improved science or or technology, better detection, things like that. There's things that have been out there that we're just now starting to find more often, and so that would they both would count. And then the third thing, the trifecta, is that it has to have negative impacts on the environment.

Abigail Garofalo: 04:39

And that could be, like, a whole host of things. Right? Like, negative impacts could mean on humans, could mean on fish, could mean on

Sarah Zack: 04:46

Yep. Anything. Yeah. Anything. Yeah. So it could be a drinking water contaminant. It could be something that causes fish to change sexes. It could be something that we just don't really know very much about, but suspect is not healthy for us. Microplastics, I think, falls into to something like that where, you know, it's not a chemical per se. That's why I said they're substances because microplastics are considered a a contaminant, in this sort of vein, but it's they're actual pieces of plastic.

Abigail Garofalo: 05:20

So it's, like, something that we classify so we can put resources toward understanding it. Like, the burden of proof of it being a concern is a little bit lower. Like, we don't have to, like, we don't have to directly be like, this is directly causing this issue, but we suspect it is in order for it to be considered emergency emerging.

Sarah Zack: 05:40

That's a that's a good point, I think. And I think the EPA, in particular, in the Great Lakes area has invested a lot of money in emerging contaminants because they're trying to develop sort of this baseline for what a lot of these pollutants are. And and in the case of things like like PFAS, we don't know a lot about them, and it's a suite of thousands of chemicals. So you have to start somewhere and kind of try and figure out, you know, how do we attack this? At what level do we start to worry? And, you know, there's a lot of unanswered questions about a lot of these chemicals.

Abigail Garofalo: 06:18

I've heard, like so you were talking about, like, official language and terminology, and, those are really valuable for us to understand these kind of, like, criteria of what falls under that because that kind of devotes resources to certain things or or our attention and time. And so I've heard some terms. I've heard emerging contaminant, and then I've also heard contaminant of emerging concern. Are those the same thing? Is there a difference? Tell me a little bit more. Yeah. That's a great question. And, that's, I think, something that there's been a lot of debate about, but I guess now, contaminant of emergent concern is probably the more widely accepted, even though it's a little bit more of a mouthful. They tend to get used interchangeably and and I think that's fine. But there are subtle differences between the two. So if you think about an emerging contaminant, the idea there kind of calls to mind something that is just now being found. Whereas if you think about a contaminant of emerging concern, that's something that you're just now starting to be worried about. Right? And that, I think, is a bit more broad and a bit more inclusive of some of the chemicals that we're hoping to address because there are, like I said before, things that have been in the environment, they're not new chemicals. They've been there, but we're just now starting to figure out that, hey, these are these are not great, and we need to begin addressing them and and figuring out, you know, how to handle them. So I think the contaminant of emerging concern also has the cute CEC, abbreviation, which a lot of people like to use. They call them CECs. And And I think a lot of people continue to use them interchangeably, and I I think that's okay. But I do think that understanding that the concern is what's more emerging than the contaminant itself, you know, when it comes to this big broad category.

Erin Garrett: 08:08

That makes sense. Because when you were discussing the definition of emerging contaminant, you know, to me, it makes it sound like it is something new that's just been found. Right? So even though it is more of a mouthful, I think the the longer at least to me to me makes more more encompassing sense of what we're talking about. Like

Sarah Zack: 08:26

I agree.

Erin Garrett: 08:27

The concern about it that is is emerging. What are some examples? You've mentioned a few. You've mentioned them in the background, but what are we talking about? What are the different contaminants that are the most concerning ones that we're talking about?

Sarah Zack: 08:41

I don't wanna be biased, but the one for me, the ones that I focus on in my work, in my extension work are the most important ones. So I would say, the biggest one in the news right now is PFAS. They're per and polyfluoroalkyl substances. So these are things that make consumer products heatproof and grease proof. They make things slippery. They protect things. They're in firefighting foams. They are in so many things, and they are really, really widely found throughout the country in water both water and soils. And these are chemicals that have known negative impacts to people. Right? There's a lot of whole host of health problems that can arise from PFAS exposure at certain levels. And so that has been in the news a lot lately.

Sarah Zack: 09:34

Another one that I would say is a really hot issue is microplastics, particularly microfibers. Right? Tiny tiny pieces of plastic. These are less than five millimeters in size, and they come from a variety of sources. They come from larger pieces of plastic breaking down. They come from the manufacturing process where there are tiny pieces of that just sort of escape into water that would otherwise be used to mold larger pieces of plastic. I always like to talk about if you go to the zoo and you see the Moldorama machines, that's exactly it. Those are tiny pieces of plastic that get melted down and molded into, you know, a giraffe or a a an elephant. I think I have a vulture downstairs on, in the basement on my desk from the last time I went to the zoo. But those tiny little pieces of plastic can escape and end up in the water.

Sarah Zack: 10:27

And then microfibers are sort of the biggest issue in terms of microplastics, and they are fibers that are shed from non natural textiles. So if you're not wearing wool or hemp or cotton, chances are you're wearing nylon or polyester or, you know, some sort of really plastic based fabric. Right? Like, all those are plastic based. And so the little fibers from those get into the air. They get into the soils. They get into the water, particularly from our washing machines and end up in natural waters.

Sarah Zack: 11:03

And then the other one I'll mention is pharmaceuticals. Pharmaceuticals is it's such a huge group of chemicals, such a huge group of things that have a really, really wide variety of impacts. And and these are things that range from caffeine to estrogen and hormone therapies to Tylenol and Advil to antidepressants. I mean, all of these medications, they all end up in the water whether we excrete them or they wash off our bodies or bad bad, we dump them down the drain or flush them down the toilet. And as is the case with pretty much all of these, wastewater treatment plants were not designed to remove them. So they may do a decent job at removing them all, but they can't remove every little bit. And so there's always gonna be a little bit that kind of escapes into natural waters. That was a mouthful. Sorry.

Abigail Garofalo: 12:00

No. And I was thinking too sometimes we talk about, like, emerging in the true sense that it's it is a new contaminant. Like, is the wastewater treatment plant have the knowledge or even knowing that it is in the water in order to filter it out. Right? It's not like a lot of these pharmaceuticals are being developed with the intent of, like, oh, this is a new pharmaceutical, and here wastewater treatment plants all around the world is how you filter out of the water. Right? Like, that's not a never

Sarah Zack: 12:26

A lot of our waste structure is, you know, very old across the country. And so, I mean, this these just aren't things again, these are emerging issues. They just aren't things that these plants were designed to to remove. And I will say, for not being designed to remove them, they do a pretty good job of getting a lot of them out. The problem is that we're just inundating these waters with all of these things. And oftentimes too, in Illinois, it is a great example of this. Right? We have a lot of agriculture. And so the biosolids that are recovered from the wastewater treatment process often can end up as fertilizers. And in those biosolids is often the compounds and the substances that were removed from the water. So we take them out of the water. They end up in the biosolids, and then we go ahead and we put them on land where they end up in the soils, and they wash off into the water anyway. And that's not for all of them, but microplastics is a big one. Pharmaceuticals too, you know, those things kind of end up getting spread on agricultural lands. So there's some movement on banning biosolids, until we can kind of get a handle on that.

Abigail Garofalo: 13:37

Well, I'm I'm thinking about too, like, a lot of our listeners we're hearing this and we're like, oh, no. Like, what can I do? What am I doing? Am I contaminating the water? What are some things that we commonly do that we are accidentally kind of putting in our water?

Sarah Zack: 13:53

Yeah. There's a lot of things that we probably don't realize that we're doing that contribute to this problem that are super easy fixes. Right? And it's really easy, like, oh, don't do this and the problem's solved because, I mean, that's not true. Right? We all know that that's not true, but every little bit helps. Right? Like, if every person can do some of these things, then we could really make a dent in reducing the amount that we're continuing to put out. Maybe there's still a lot of stuff out there in our water that we have to deal with, and that's fine. But if we can reduce the load that we continue to add, that's a really, really good thing.

Sarah Zack: 14:26

So, I mean, first and foremost, I would say never ever flush medications. Always find a take back program. And you can even go to your pharmacy. You can go to your local law enforcement. And oftentimes, one or the other will have a drop box where you can put these things. No questions asked. You just walk in, put them in, walk away. That's it. And if not, you can get envelopes from your pharmacies sometimes, and you can mail them in to be properly disposed of, which is really, really great. Yeah. We just say, please, please, please don't flush or dump any unwanted medication. And we have a website. It's unwantedmeds.org. And if you go to the website, we have a map, and you can put in your ZIP code, and you can find your local take back. The DEA also holds take backs in conjunction with law enforcement twice a year, usually in April and October. So if you can kinda hang on to things safely until then, you know, you'll likely find a event that you can drop stuff off to.

Erin Garrett: 15:21

Do you know how do they handle the medications? Like, what is the process that they dispose of them?

Sarah Zack: 15:27

Yeah. So a lot of times, it's incinerated. So there are certain facilities. I've worked with a lot of programs across the Great Lakes States, and we have them sign up for, like, a waste to energy program where they're incinerated in EPA regulated facilities, and that incineration process gets turned into energy. It's used to generate power, essentially, which is pretty cool. Because the facility is EPA regulated, you know, it's it's a hazardous waste facility disposal facility, basically. So we're disposing of these things as hazardous waste. So we're not putting toxic smoke out into

Erin Garrett: 16:03

Yep.

Sarah Zack: 16:03

You know, out into the environment. So that that's a really good thing. And I think too that when you drop stuff off at the take back events in October and April, the DEA comes around and collects those medicines from the law enforcement and then deals with them, you know, themselves. So the federal government just kind of, like, takes over and and takes care of it. And none of them end up in landfills or in the water.

Erin Garrett: 16:27

So that was my other follow-up question is why not, like, throwing away in a landfill? Like, what are the potential drawbacks to that?

Sarah Zack: 16:36

Yeah. That's a great question. And and actually, there are situations that we would recommend that you put them in a landfill. There's sort of a specific set of steps to follow to make sure that you are safely throwing them away because when you put them in the garbage, there are some public health risks. Right? You know, these things could get diverted. They could get, you know, found by animals, children. Like, you wanna make sure that they are properly taken care of, not just so that they don't become an environmental hazard, but so that they don't become a public health issue as well. The reason that we ask people not to put things in a landfill if they can avoid it is because eventually, those things in landfills break down, and they end up in you know, there's water, rainwater that hits them. There's water that's produced as these things break down, and that water ends up going to a treatment plant. So all of that runoff that that's called leachate that comes from a landfill facility, it all ends up at a wastewater treatment plant, where it's treated and then returned to the environment. So, again, we know that those pharmaceuticals aren't all getting pulled out of the water. So if we take them out of the landfills, keep them out of the landfills as much as we can, you know, we prevent that from happening.

Abigail Garofalo: 17:48

And I would say to, like, to our listeners, it is, you know, spring. It's getting to be the end of our cold winter season. Maybe you had I, like, usually, like, maybe once or twice a year, if I'm feeling really fancy once a quarter, I'll, like, go through my medicine cabinet and, like, be like, alright. Here's my, like, expired medications. Here's my things, and I put them all together, and then that's just kind of an easy way to be, like, in this baggie to the the proper, you know, medicine disposal.

Sarah Zack: 18:15

Absolutely. Right? April and October, those are the DEA take backs. You'll start seeing them advertised. It's a nice reminder, you know, that's twice a year that you're kind of purging those things that you don't need anymore. And one thing too that we ask people to do is to make sure that they're storing their medications in a central safe location because a lot of times, this waste is generated because you don't know what you have. You got stuff in the kitchen. You got stuff in the bathroom. You got stuff, you know, in your purse, or in your backpack. And and so if you can kinda consolidate that and really know what you've got in the house, then you won't overbuy, and you'll use up hopefully, use up what you have.

Abigail Garofalo: 18:55

Yeah. Get rid of that six year old Tylenol it's expired. Throw it in the proper disposal place. Put it in a central location.

Sarah Zack: 19:03

Yes. And vet medicines too. Right? Like, animal medications. If your dog or cat or parakeet is taking medication and there's some leftover, dispose of that with it too. Some vets' offices can take them back, but proper disposal is is the way to go. So just, you know, put the dog Xanax with the with the expired Tylenol.

Abigail Garofalo: 19:23

With your Xanax. Awesome. Well, other ones that we're accidentally contaminating, the water of in our house?

Sarah Zack: 19:30

Yeah. The other one I would I would mention is microplastics. There's really two groups. Right? You got the tiny plastics that are breaking down from other plastics, and then you've got the fibers that your washing machine's generating. And they kind of require separate actions. So for the microplastics, I think the biggest thing that you can do is to avoid single use plastic. Avoiding plastic water bottles is huge, but just, you know, not using plastic silverware, not taking not using baggies, plastic baggies, right, using reusable things, putting things in Tupperware. You know, glass containers are even better, from a health standpoint. And it sounds kinda like granola crunchy, I know, but the more single use plastics that we cut down on, the fewer single use plastics end up in landfills and end up breaking down and, you know, blowing away and ending up in in the water. And and just putting your trash away properly, especially when you're outside. Right? Making sure that you are not throwing things on the ground. Cigarette butts have plastic in them. I don't know why everybody thinks that cigarette butts are not trash. Cigarette butts are garbage. I used to be a smoker. I'm sure I'm guilty of this where you finish a cigarette, you just kinda flick it out the window or you flick it. And I see it all the time now, and it now I'm like, I can't believe I ever did that because they have plastic in them, and that plastic ends up in our water when they wash into the storm sewers. So properly disposing of those things.

Sarah Zack: 20:58

And then for the fibers, you know, trying to cut down on the amount that your your washing machine water is is gonna carry to the wastewater treatment plant. And you can do that by, spot treating things like fleeces in particular. I mean, this is the Midwest. We all wear fleece. Fleece sheds microfibers like crazy, but we're never gonna convince people not to wear fleece. You know, one, because it works great and it's, you know, comfortable and attractive, but also because wool is probably the best alternative. Wool is so expensive. It's just not feasible for a lot of people. So making sure that you're spot cleaning them rather than throwing them in the washing machine, and then making sure that you wash full loads on the gentle cycle is really helpful because the less friction that those clothes go through in the washing machine, the fewer fibers are gonna get shed off of that.

Erin Garrett: 21:50

What I'm hearing is this is another incentive for me to knit more wool sweaters for myself

Abigail Garofalo: 21:55

and for your friends, Erin, and for your friends.

Sarah Zack: 22:00

Absolutely. I mean, the the amount of clothing that's out there that is made from synthetic fabrics is I mean, it's almost unavoidable, particularly if you have any sort of budget because the natural fibers are really expensive. So, you know, just making kind of a conscious choice to pay attention to how you care for it can really make a difference and cut down on on the amount of microfibers that are generated.

Erin Garrett: 22:26

Alright. Are there any other simple actions that our listeners can take to prevent or reduce the amount of contaminants that are getting into our waterways?

Sarah Zack: 22:38

The other thing I would mention is PFAS tends to be more of an industrial issue. Right? Oftentimes, it's added to consumer products without our knowledge or request. But there are a couple things that you can do at home to reduce your exposure to them, which I think are are really important. And the first thing that I would mention is to throw away any old pans you have that are coated with Teflon, because Teflon was made with PFAS chemicals. And as it ages, it releases those chemicals a lot more readily. And so replacing any of those pans, if you can, is is really great. And if you buy your pans, like, at Goodwill, you know, oftentimes you can find some really great things at Goodwill. Just be careful and be discerning, you know, when you buy things. And if there's scratches, make sure to avoid it.

Sarah Zack: 23:28

And then things like road salt. Road salt is also something that contaminates water. So being smart about how you salt your driveway, the proper amount of salt is one twelve ounce coffee mug for 10 sidewalk squares. So if you can imagine or picture that in your head, then you can also imagine that de-icer does not need to be this thin, consistent layer across. It just needs to be spread out so that it can break up the ice and things like that, especially if you make sure that it's cleared and shoveled before you put it on.

Sarah Zack: 23:57

And then with a lot of these things too, it's just use things according to the directions and store them properly according to the directions. You know? Make sure that you don't have leaks of, let's say, motor oil or antifreeze or fertilizer or pesticides, in your garage that you then have to wash away and dump down the drain. So storing these things carefully and properly is really easy and can really be a big help too.

Erin Garrett: 24:29

Yeah. And I know after we had you on I think it was a podcast before on to talk about PFAS, and I learned a lot during that. So I know that one of the things that I learned was the, like, the spray you use on your shoes to make them, like, water repellent.

Sarah Zack: 24:46

Yes.

Erin Garrett: 24:47

Yeah. It has that in there. And so we I just bought some shoes, and we were at the store. And my husband held up a can of the repellent stuff, and it says no. Not made with, PFAS in it. And he's like, what is that? And I'm like, oh, I know that. That's good that they're doing that. That's like, I would choose that product over another. So also, like, keeping that in mind, I know I recently bought some new pans. And, like, it was really hard to find a statement on the pans. I will say that they're not made with those. But, like, doing your research too, like, a lot of the times that information is out there. Like, it's on a label. It might not you might not have all the options, but at least then you're aware. Right?

Sarah Zack: 25:25

Being a conscious consumer. Right? And what's the phrase? Voting with your wallet. You vote with your wallet. Right? If if you only buy the Scotchgard fabric protector or shoe protector that is PFAS free, then the demand for that increases, and then companies are incentivized to, you know, make more safer products.

Erin Garrett: 25:48

I thought you'd like to know. I thought of you, Sarah when I was at the store.

Sarah Zack: 25:51

That's fantastic. That makes me so happy.

Abigail Garofalo: 25:54

We get so many things from Sarah. She has a she was on another podcast that was like, tell me about the Great Lakes. Is that the the Sea Grant one?

Sarah Zack: 26:02

Sea Grant.

Abigail Garofalo: 26:02

Teach me about the Great Lakes?

Sarah Zack: 26:03

Teach me about the Great Lakes. Yeah.

Abigail Garofalo: 26:05

Yeah. And she talked about, like like, ways to, like, reuse things in your home and, like, reducing just the amount of waste in your home. And so now we make our own hand soap. We do, like, the Castile soap and water and then a little bit of almond oil and and essential oils to to, like, the smell, and it's, like, it's great. It's foaming hand soap, and it's so easy.

Sarah Zack: 26:26

Yeah. It's cheap. It works great, and, like, you feel good about it.

Abigail Garofalo: 26:30

Yeah.

Sarah Zack: 26:31

One of those things that gets deal soap lasts for forever. It lasts forever.

Abigail Garofalo: 26:36

I think I started it, like, last month. Yeah. I listened to it, like, I don't know, like, three, four years ago, and I've only bought, like, two things of Castile soap.

Sarah Zack: 26:43

That's awesome. That was a fun subject too because we all just, like, tried out new things and then kind of reviewed them, and I got to try toothpaste tablets for the first time. So that was pretty cool. I didn't like them.

Abigail Garofalo: 26:54

Yeah.

Sarah Zack: 26:55

I did not like

Abigail Garofalo: 26:56

Yeah. See? And that's that's why when I think about these solutions that you share, right, and I always tell people about this is, like, you try things out and then you do what works for you and your family and the lifestyle you you have. Right? A good example I share is, like, you know, the alternative to plastic wrap for a lot of people is beeswax wrap. I cannot stand washing beeswax wrap. I dislike it so much to, like, the point of just, like, don't I don't recommend it for people. And I'm like but and I have to remember and put my educator hat on and be like, it works for some people who like to hand wash and don't mind. You know? Like, that's fine for them, but, like, it's not a great solution for me. So I've, like, found other ways of, like, what's an alternative. Like, I put, like, a wet cloth over things, or, like, I've bought, like, these reusable, like, Velcro bags that I can put, like, snacks in and stuff. And so you find different solutions that work for you. Right? Some people have really specialized hair products. I really like shampoo bars. You know? Like, I think they work out really well for my hair type, but I have a lot of friends and family with, like, really curly hair and, like, that needs a lot of specialized products, and maybe that wouldn't work for them. I don't know. I just think you try different things, and it's okay. There's, like, no shaming among it. Right? Like, you're like, I haven't found a better solution for it yet. I'm still looking.

Sarah Zack: 28:15

That's a great point. And I think too that it it's not just your preferences, but, like, it's also your abilities too. Right? Like, plastic straws are a great example. There are people that need plastic straws to drink, and that is okay. There is no shame in needing a plastic straw. So maybe there's something different you can do. Right? If you need to use plastic straws, find some other way to help. Right? Maybe you don't need to use plastic forks. So, yeah, I think finding what works for you and your family. And I'll kind of agree with you on the I like beeswax wraps. I don't mind beeswax wraps. What I hate are reusable sandwich bags because the ones that I have are terrible. When you try and scrub peanut butter and jelly out of one of those things from a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and oh my god. I hate them so much. I hate them so much. So I don't use them. I use Tupperware. But, you know, that's what works for my sanity, my family.

Erin Garrett: 29:09

I'm gonna put a plug out there for reusable jute grocery bags. Just saying, they're amazing. They're the best. They last for years, and everyone always compliments me when I have them. So I haven't started a revolution yet. I don't see everyone at the grocery store with them, but they're the best reusable grocery bags ever.

Sarah Zack: 29:31

So Are they for produce or for, like, bagging your groceries?

Erin Garrett: 29:35

For, like, bagging all my groceries up.

Sarah Zack: 29:37

Yes. Very cool. And then you can

Erin Garrett: 29:39

Well

Sarah Zack: 29:40

If it rips, you can throw it in the garbage and not or you can throw it in your could you compost that? Can you compost jute?

Abigail Garofalo: 29:47

That's something to learn. I don't know the answer to that question.

Erin Garrett: 29:51

I'll have to wait and find out, but they you can pack them full too, and they don't rip. Like, it's

Sarah Zack: 29:55

Awesome.

Erin Garrett: 29:56

Amazing. So that's my pro tip.

Sarah Zack: 29:59

Good tip.

Abigail Garofalo: 29:59

You know what? Come April, everyone's gonna be using them now. Everyone listened to this podcast and thought, I need a jute grocery bag.

Abigail Garofalo: 30:08

Yeah. So well, Sarah, thank you so much, for sharing your knowledge on contaminants of emerging concern. We are going to finish today's episode with everyday observations where we highlight the mundane and normal of our environment that is actually really interesting. So, Erin, I'm gonna call on you to go first. What is your everyday observation this week?

Erin Garrett: 30:31

Alright. So a few months ago, I went out to Pere Marquette State Park, on a vacation, which is one of my favorite spots. And we were out hiking, and, of course, I'm always looking for plants and insects and wildlife. And we had just started our hike, and right away, I saw a mourning cloak butterfly, which I have never seen in person before. I've seen, like, tons of pictures of them.

Erin Garrett: 30:55

But that was the first time I'd seen one, and I love them because they have the gold edging on the wings, and they're just so striking and beautiful. And I thought it was really cool, and I recently just learned that they actually hibernate as adults, which I think is really interesting for a butterfly. So you can find them

Abigail Garofalo: 31:12

Pretty rare, I feel.

Erin Garrett: 31:14

Yeah. You can find them, like, late in the season because, obviously, they're still adults and they're gonna go into hibernation. And then, like, really early in the season too, they'll emerge. So I thought that was really cool to see one, and then I just researched it because I just never looked up a mourning cloak butterfly, and I learned some cool things about them.

Sarah Zack: 31:32

Very cool.

Abigail Garofalo: 31:33

That is fun. I love when you find a new insect because you you you love so many moths and butterflies that for you to see a new one.

Erin Garrett: 31:40

I know. I was so excited. I knew what it was right away. I'm like, it's a mourning cloak.

Abigail Garofalo: 31:44

So fun. Alright, Sarah. What's your everyday observation?

Sarah Zack: 31:48

So mine involves our neighborhood fox. So I live in suburbia, northwest suburbs Of Chicago, and we don't often get a ton of wildlife. We'll, like, occasionally get, like, a white tailed deer running down the street, and everybody's like, where did that come from? Like, why is that here? But we do have fox or foxes that seem to have made our neighborhood home. And it's really fun because you go out walking the dog, like, early in the morning, and you'll see him just trotting across the street or late at night too. You see him trotting across the street. But the other week, my husband and my daughter were out just, like, messing around in our yard, kind of cleaning up, hitting, like, a wiffle ball around. My daughter's 10. And she hit the wiffle ball over into this side sort of grassland that we have and went to go get the ball and boom, the fox was bedded down in our yard. And she scared it. She startled it, and it jumped up over our eight foot fence and into our backyard and scampered off. And it was I was so upset that I missed it, but she was just like, oh my god. She couldn't believe that it was even possible. Usually, they go under our fence because we have found them in our totally fenced in backyard before, but this one just jumped right over it, which I had no idea was even a thing that they could do. I guess you put enough fear in an animal and can do pretty much anything.

Abigail Garofalo: 33:16

That is so cool. There's a lot of really interesting research around, like, coyotes and foxes, in the urban environment that, like because they just, like, find such an interesting niche, and they also have, like, a really interesting relationship with humans that is just, yeah, fascinating and cool and sad. I'm sorry for you that you missed it.

Sarah Zack: 33:34

I would so sad, but I'm the only one that saw it when it was bedded down in our backyard one day. It was, like, bedded down among, like, some of our bushes, but, like, right in this patch of sunshine. So it was, like, a picture perfect. Like, it was just there, like and the sun was just illuminating it, and it was so beautiful. So I've I've seen the fox, so I felt pretty good that my daughter was the one who got to see him. But I don't know if it's one fox or, like, a family or what, but, I mean, it's been ongoing for years that we've had foxes in our neighborhood, which

Abigail Garofalo: 34:04

You probably don't have coyotes. Right?

Sarah Zack: 34:06

I don't think we do. Every once in a while in, like, a neighborhood group, we'll hear, like, coyotes spotted. But, usually, it's not in my area of of the town, my, like, little subdivision.

Abigail Garofalo: 34:19

Yeah. They usually they inhabit such similar niches that, like, that's what they say is, like, in communities, in certain neighborhoods, you'll see either foxes or coyotes.

Sarah Zack: 34:29

Well, I'm glad we have foxes then because I have a pug who likes to run around in the backyard, and I don't think the fox is any threat. But a coyote might be, although I maintain that they're more scared of us than we are of them.

Abigail Garofalo: 34:43

Probably. Well, I will share mine. So I grew up in Central Illinois in which we're not part of a large, like, migration flyway that I am now being in the the northwest suburbs as well. And so I did not know anything about sandhill cranes when I first moved here. And then I moved here, and I was like, oh my gosh. These are like a thing. And I'd never even, like, seen them, and I was like, oh my gosh. These are really big birds. Like, these are huge birds. Like, like, four or five feet tall birds. And I saw one at, like, a wildlife center that was under rehab and stuff like that. Well, a couple of weeks ago and we're in we're recording in December, so this was around November. But they should be flying back through in the spring here pretty soon when this episode gets released, was I heard them. I heard the, like, like and, like, a giant flock of them just, like, flying overhead, and I'm outside of my house, like, talking to my husband. He's, like, showing me the Christmas lights he put up or whatever. And I'm like, stop. We need to do like, we just you can't talk anymore? Like, we need to look up and, like, observe this crazy and they just kept coming. Like, it was, like, all everywhere. And I was just, it still blows my mind. It still blows me away, and I just think sandhill cranes are really cool. So.

Sarah Zack: 35:59

That's very cool. It's very fun to, like, be a part of this and, like, hear you guys getting so excited about this stuff because I get excited about this stuff, but I don't often get to talk to people who get excited about this stuff. So, like, your enthusiasm is, like, infectious, which is really good.

Abigail Garofalo: 36:14

You got a fellow nature nerd out. You know?

Sarah Zack: 36:17

Yep.

Abigail Garofalo: 36:17

That's what this is for. So, Sarah, thank you so much for sharing everything that you had today and all the wonderful information and just kinda chatting with us on the pod and nerding out with us and answering all of our questions. It's been really wonderful. I always love working with you, so I really appreciate it.

Sarah Zack: 36:32

Same. Same. Thank you for having me.

Abigail Garofalo: 36:34

Well, this has been another episode of the Everyday Environment podcast. Check out next week where we will talk with Eliana Brown about stormwater management solutions at home. This podcast is a University of Illinois production, hosted and edited by Abigail Garofalo, Erin Garrett, and Amy Lefringhouse.

Matt Wiley: 36:56

University of Illinois Extension.