Ep. 167 Garden Trends for 2024 | #GoodGrowing

Welcome to the Good Grown podcast. I am Chris Enroth, horticulture educator with the University of Illinois Extension coming at you from Macomb, Illinois. We have got a great show for you today. We are gonna be talking about garden trends to be on the lookout for in this 2024 growing season. And you know I'm not doing this by myself.

I am joined as always every single week by horticulture educator Ken Johnson in Jacksonville. Hey, Ken.

Hello, Chris. This should be fun.

Yes. It should be fun. And let us introduce our other cohost with us today, Emily Swihart up in the old Milan, Illinois. Not Milan.

Hi. Yep. Hi, guys. I I'm happy to be with my two most trendy coworkers.

Oh, thank you.

It's a sad state of affairs.

I owe all of our other coworkers an apology. Yes?

I I don't know. I mean, I think, you know, Ken and I, we rock the plaid just as well as anyone. So so we better dive right into this. We have, like, a lot of stuff to go through today. I I feel like we're we're gonna cover a lot of ground, and we're gonna be all over the place in terms of garden trends because I'm I have a I am of many opinions about many of things.

So just my background being in landscape design, landscape architecture, it's time to talk about this stuff. How about you, Emily? You we are we're we're we're trained in the same ways of the force.

Yeah. I think so too. This is a fun topic. You and I were talking a little bit earlier about this, how horticulture is art and science. Right?

And so much of the time, we focus on the science side of horticulture and of growing plants, which is great. That's that is great. But every once in a while, it's fun to dabble in the kind of in the arts side of of the industry. And so, yeah, I'm excited to hear what your guys' opinions are of some of the trends that are out there. And then, I guess, get feedback from folks too, you know, all along.

I like to hear what people are interested in and excited about doing in their own landscape. Because is a statement. I think through all these things, like we're making a statement, and you'll hear us over the next thirty, forty minutes or so talk about what we prefer, and that says something about us. It says something about our values. It says something about our ethics, our upbringing.

You know? So I'm I'm excited to be talking about this. Ken, what do you think?

I'm along for the

ride. No.

Oh, so I can blame all my bad taste on my parents then. Is that what you're saying? It's all my upbringing. I don't know about that.

No. I don't think that's I don't think that's okay. I don't think that's

my kids blame me. No.

No. I'm oh, I know my kids will blame me. So

As parents all of ourselves, let's not set that

standard. Nope. But we'll talk about insects today, Ken. I promise. That's gonna come up.

Good. Good. I look forward to it.

Alright. Well, I mean, as you mentioned, Emily, this is a topic that I mean, it's art. And there's some research. There is some scientific study that you can do on this, but a lot of this is sort of consumer interests, consumer surveys, surveys of, like, the green industry about what is popular, what is selling. So that I think that's what we're gonna pull on a lot of.

So we're not gonna be able to point to, like, a particular research article and say, hey. This study shows this. We are kind of just going with the the ebb and flow of sort of design and aesthetics and taste as as it moves around throughout throughout the generations. So I I think there there is a few people in the green industry that do this type of research. So, you know, I I think we might be able to look back and point to a few fingers at, like, some studies.

But for the most part, this is a lot of it's a lot of kind of, as you said, our own tastes and the flavor we like to put on things.

Yeah. Well, in some of the reports that, you I was referring to, some of them are from, you know, like, media outlets that are looking to help guide industry professionals, nurseries. You know? Because they have they have to make decisions in advance of the season. And so this is useful when everyone can kinda coalesce around an idea or there's new plants that are being promoted because they're new on the market or they they offer certain, you know, exciting characteristics.

So there's use in in these reports. I also just look at, like, magazines and what others are, you know, posting and sharing for ideas because it is so when it comes down to it, the consumer decisions that we're making are individualized. And so you can find inspiration and resource, you know, elsewhere too. So

And and as gardeners, we're also impulsive. I I I Super impulsive. Yes. Yeah. It's it's really bad, actually.

It doesn't help our landscapes at all to be impulsive, I would argue. Actually, it kinda hurts sometimes. Yes. But it it's like it's like a a like a teenager or a 20 year old waiting for the next game system to come out or the next piece of technology to come out. That is a gardener, and they see an orange petunia.

And they're like, I want that. I don't because I've never seen it before. I want it. You know? It's like technology, but it's nature and plants.

So it's it's in us all, I think. Right, Ken?

Yep. Then you gotta figure out where you're gonna put it when you don't have any more room.

Mhmm. Yeah. So I I guess, Emily, something, as we dive down into this idea of garden trends, what are some trends or maybe what is the an overarching theme or something that that you have been able to pluck out of this madness of gardening economics?

Yeah. Well, so like I said, I've been reading a bunch of different articles, some more science backed or more industry backed than others. Others are just more fun and and kind of fluffy, if you will. Between those and what I've just seen personally through my time, you know, in my career is kind of this this grouping of and I'm gonna be general. So we're gonna start with, like, a a conceptual category of a response to the climate change and a response to some of the trends that we've seen, like the plight of the pollinators.

Right? Monarch movement was so well received and so well marketed that people now common, you know, laypeople that have other professions that are not doing this for a living are talking about planting for, being concerned about pollinators, not just the monarch. And so I see, like, ecology, biodiversity being a trend that is interpreted or applied, I guess, to the landscape in different ways. So this would be kind of where your insect trend comes in or insect theme. We've been talking about insects for so long.

Now it's starting to really expand beyond monarchs, you know, to and and beyond, you know, the the lovely bumble and honeybees. Right? We're we're diversifying what we know and which pollinators we're willing to tolerate or even attract in our landscape. You know, there's different things like growing fruit at home, like being more locally, you know, sourced for things. Like so, you know, I I guess that's that's one of the categories, and then there's all the art stuff.

It's a kind of another category that I see in trends, and that's just the kind of the fun, exciting, you know, new plants or new themes that are not based in ecology or in necessarily based in ecology. Of course, they're still part of the plants world. But so we can go through some of them, and and if you guys wanna respond or I mean, like, why don't we start with with the best of the best in insects? Ken? That's

yeah. Let's go. Let's go there. Let me prime you for this, Ken. So I I will say that I've definitely seen this increasing popularity for insects.

But here's my my conflict is that I don't know, is it because I've been hanging out with Ken for so long that I I don't see the need to control a lot of the insects that I think past me used to worry about or fret about. I I feel like having these conversations with Ken over there has been really great for opening my eyes to the world of insects. And so I feel like maybe people are consuming different, like, podcast media, YouTube shows, science shows, and I I feel like entomology is kind of breaking its way into the world a little bit. But, again, am I is it because I am where I am? Does the rest of the population care about insects?

Because my wife will be like, oh, there's spiders in the, in the basement. We need to spray. I'm like, no. They're our friends. They're helping us.

And, yeah, it could be a little bit of who we associate with. But I think, you know, since I've started, I think there's more of an acceptance, at least with the audiences we're normally talking to. It'd be master gardeners or or people that come to our garden. It's people interested, kinda maybe a little more hardcore gardeners than maybe your the average public. I think there's a little more awareness of the importance of insects in general.

I think we're seeing a little more reluctance to spray. You get get away from that spray and pray approach, maybe a little more targeted spraying. So I think, yeah, to some extent, we're seeing that. I think general public at large, I think, has more awareness than they have in the past whether or how accepting they are of insects, whether that's changed much. I think maybe a little bit, but there's still a ways to go probably.

I have seen so over the course of my career, I saw and I didn't come into this career being an entomologist. I think I took one entomology class in my entire formal education. Right? Kind of the I would consider myself as when I started this as, like, the general public. Like, I I was aware insects were beneficial.

I was aware they were also a nuisance at times. And so with that background and then also having interacted with a lot of the the public, the general public for so long, I do think, or at least I have seen a bit of an evolution. I think you're right, Ken. Like, I think people that are in the landscape, you know, in some capacity or another, have come around much more to accepting insects, being more tolerant of some damage because they understand more what is happening. You know?

It's like leaf damage. Like, they're understanding that they're making that connection between, you know, caterpillars, you know, leading to then monarch or butterflies or moths, like, later down in their life cycle. There was a real push too, like I said, about that monarch being, like, a charismatic, you know, ambassador for insects and Lepidoptera. I have seen that people have evolved beyond that too. Right?

Like, that was a a really nice marketing strategy. And I don't say that disparagingly. Like, I think that was brilliant. Like, monarchs, and it was so easy to understand because we could see the decline in the population. Right?

It was so measurable. So much of the insect world is hard to see because they're solitary bees, or they don't all migrate to one area every year. And so it's hard to measure or hard for, like, the layperson to to even see that there's a challenge happening, let alone understand, like, why it's important to to us and then also how to affect change in it. So I've seen that evolve, and I'm so thrilled about it. Now it seems like some trends are starting to, like, take it to the next level where, like, we're illustrating insects on different, you know, tapestries or whatnot I've seen happen.

And now whether they are that is helping to drive this movement forward. I think people are making landscape choices to help more than just monarchs. Because before, it was milkweed, milkweed, wilkweed, which honestly is not helping the whole life cycle of monarchs even. So more diverse plantings, more native plantings, kind of understanding how to support that whole the whole life cycle of not just lepidoptera, but all beneficial insects. So

And even with the milkweed, you know, don't get as many of them. You know, I've got these other things eating it. How do I get rid of it? So I have food for my monarchs that there's there's other things that live on milkweed that rely on it too. We've kinda picked the monarchs to be the poster child of of this, but there's other things that if you don't have milkweed, they aren't gonna survive either.

So I think we've I think people have have come to realize that a little more too that we don't need to kill everything that's eating the the milkweed.

Well and I have also seen it grow beyond insects also because there's you know, they're part of a food chain. Right? I've even seen it become people becoming more tolerant or looking for more natural ways to to manage pests, quote, unquote, pests in the landscape that traditionally we might have discouraged from having or maybe we're more tolerant of. And so I think that's that's part of that big you know, like, that that ecological trend. Like, we're responding to not necessarily this wouldn't be part of the climate change.

The biodiversity part is, and we can talk about that, but, you know, the the need for preservation of the landscape of our natural landscape.

Yeah. I I wonder if, like, Doug Tallamy, you know, he was a a pretty pivotal moment because he was able to shift that conversation a little bit away from well, not away from insects. He still focuses on insects. He's an entomologist, but he's like, alright. Not everybody cares about insects.

So we're gonna we're gonna level up, and we're gonna talk about birds because they feed or they're they're the next step in that web of life, for for sustaining some of that diversity in our landscapes. And I feel like Doug Tallamy, he really sort of he he really got that word out about the importance of insects and how it relates to everything else. And birds are something that people are pretty passionate about. You know? There's a lot of people who will just feed the birds.

They might not be gardeners. They they might not care anything about what plants they have in their yard, but they like to put a bird feeder out in the winter or during the summer or a bird bath. So, there's something that we can see, kinda like the monarch butterfly. So I I how do I think he gets a little bit of credit for shifting our our the way we approach this.

Oh, so I think

he met people where they were at. Right? Like, that's what the monarch did. It met people we like pleasant looking things. That's what a lot of these trends are.

And so I think it's okay for not to admit maybe you're not as excited about some of the insects. But you what he was able to do and what I I see being a trend here is that and and, Ken, you've been, you hitting us over the head with this for for so long, which is that they're part of the ecosystem. They're an essential keystone part of the ecosystem. And so yeah. I interrupted you, Ken.

What were you gonna say?

I was saying I agree with that. And I think the native species, with those becoming more popular, that's helped. That's all kinda dovetailed together. You know, got the native species helping native insects, which then helps the the birds and and everything else. So they've all they've all kinda come together maybe at the right time or at the same time.

Mhmm. And we're we're seeing this now.

Emily, you you gave us this this idea, you know, when we were chatting before and and kind of in our show notes here about being optimistic about the future of our climate, our environment, and the idea that we can plant native. We can maybe try to foster some type of diversity, web of life, kinda see that energy as it moves from the sun to the plant to the insect to the bird to the mammal to us. You know, that that that's a real thing that happens on our planet. And it I think the idea that we can do things, we can make pollinator gardens, we can make rain gardens, we can do all these things to help in that ecological diversity, I think it's made a lot of us optimistic about the future because we can actually do something in our own yards about this.

Yeah. I was reading about there was a term so we have eco optimism was one of the terms that I really love. I love that because it is it's focused on what we can do. And even in very small spaces, a lot can be achieved. You know?

It's Doug Tallamy, you referenced, like, others, like, talk about these corridors that we need to have in our landscape. So connecting our landscape, and we can do that through our yard being a bit more eco friendly, whether it's for pollinators, for water use, for, you know, plant diversity. And then the neighbor does it, and the neighbor does it, and the neighbor does it. And it becomes this corridor, this connecting corridor like nature has. So I love that term of, like, eco optimism.

Like, we are we can be proactive. We can do something. We can't do everything, perhaps, but we can do something. And it was in the frame of countering it was called eco anxiety. So with a lot of the news that we're hearing about climate change and the the things we're witnessing with, you know, increased impact of some of our natural disasters, like the intensity has been increased, and I think more people perhaps feel like we've been impacted and the data reflects it, it can be depressing.

And I I'll be the first to admit. Like, there have been times where I just go, what are we doing? Like, what am I doing? How can how can this be the world that we live in now? But stepping back and remembering, I actually can affect change.

I can do things with my choices, and it starts in the home landscape. And so that native movement, I've also seen evolve over, you know, all of our careers. Right? This is not this has been within the last couple of decades that this, I think, has really taken off. There have been seeds planted of of being able to affect more global or national causes.

Like, we've seen that in the history of gardening trends. This feels more like like like a sign of the times right now, the the eco the eco optimism or the eco the ecological movement. But when I first started talking about native plants, learning about native plants, landscaping with native plants, I was getting comments from family members, from neighbors, from the general public going, like, what is that? Look at all the look at all the bugs on your on these plants. You gotta take them out.

We've evolved a bit. There's a right plant, right place situation happening too, but people have come around to it. And then there's there's cult of ours. We don't need to get into that, you know, of course, but it's a marketing strategy. Sometimes it's well intended.

Sometimes it's a marketing strategy and no more or nothing more, but we're trying. It's part of the conversation, which is, I think, encouraging.

Yeah. Think with with native plants we've gone from, they're all weeds to you can go to your local box store and buy them now. So come up pretty pretty long wait when you think about it.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And that's happened in span of about a decade and a half, I think. Yeah.

So it's pretty quick turnaround for people who have to grow plants for a living. I mean, it takes years to do. I I think if we could pivot just a little bit to thinking about how design also impacts some of these these these decisions that we make in our own yard. So when I look at some of what is happening in more more urban areas like Chicago, New York, places like that, where they're actually reclaiming some of that concrete and putting it back into soft green scaping landscaping, I I what pops into my mind is the Lurie Garden in Chicago. And it's this so romantic design era is this idea of kind of a pastoral landscape, and there's this what they're calling a new romantic design era, which is sort of this like, Bloorrey Garden is this mass planting.

The the Salvia River, you know, it's this purple river that they planted. Now there's these mass plantings of of some natives, but also some non natives, but adapted plants that aren't nasty, aggressive invasive species. So the that new romantic design approach, I think it really emphasized by Pete Olduv. I think he was the designer for Lurie Garden. Roy Dyblick, he's helped him out.

I think Thomas Rayner, he's a landscape architect. Claudia West, I'm trying to like, these are all people that kind of influenced or shaped that idea of building plant communities. And and, also, I'll I'll I'll just add as kind of an observer here, they get to sell a lot of plants for people that adopt this approach. I mean, you're putting a lot of plants in a smaller space. So like you said, Emily, right plant, right place, and we also have to think about mature spacing and and all that too.

But they say that these communities that they've created with these plant palettes, they're designed to live in and amongst each other. So I I I I feel like people seeing that in these urban areas are also wanting to mimic or replicate that in their own landscapes at some point.

Yeah. Well, like, design principles don't go out the window when you're using native plants versus non native plants. Right? So, like, the Lori Gardens, 1 of the a couple of the the design elements that are applied there so well, and people can replicate this in their home landscape at any scale, would be repetition and and block planting. So there's mass plantings.

Right? It's not one plant here, one plant there. You would see, like, the Salvia River. You would see clumps of baptisia, and you would see it would make a a bigger impact when you clump plants together. That's fine.

You can plant I love when, like, native grasses are planted together for for more impact. But then that repetition, they there's a very specific color palette that they're using at the Lori Garden, which is, like, their purples and lavenders and whites and and greens, and that unifies the whole site. Like, that's those are really easy ways to use these native plants and make a a plant selection because there's hundreds of native plants. Right? So if people are feeling overwhelmed, like, those are some ways just to kinda narrow it down.

Just use a search engine, you know, and identify what your site conditions are. Pick your favorite color. Mine is, you know, purple, and I've identified that just recently in my life. I always I finally, like, articulated that. I just love purple flowering plants.

That's fine. So that's what I'm planting now. I'm so sorry to all the oranges and yellows and red flowers, but I really like those. So I'm just gonna use them in my landscape and use that as a unifying element. And it'll, you know, it'll create biodiversity because I'm using different plants like the Lori Garden has, but it also looks really nice.

It's a romantic. It's an elegant design, and the Lori Garden is phenomenal. But that's what Rudolph does with his plants is he has these big blocks. And you could see it when you look at any of the pictures of his landscape designs. So

And and that's the benefit of hiring horticultural staff to maintain spaces like that. So if that's a trend I could start, it would be convincing cities and other organizations like, you know what? You should hire a horticulturist to help you out with all of this. Yeah. That I I I want that to be our I want that to happen.

That that'll be the trend we're talking about. Everyone's hiring horticulturists.

It better be. I'd I'm putting my money on it.

That's I

have no money. So money.

Because we're horticulturists?

Yeah.

We spend all of on plants.

That's right. That's right. Again, impulse buys. One

of the trends or one of the the branches of this eco optimism or the, you know, the naturalist plantings or hiring horticulturists would be in the urban landscape with trees. So, we've talked a lot. We've said a lot of different perennial plant names. We've kind of referenced more of what's happening at the, you know, at the perennial scale. Trees are our longest lived plants.

They, you know, pack the most bang for their buck when you start having really mature trees. And all of this, what we've already said, applies to the urban forest too. There's a trend in moving towards native plants. There's a trend in moving towards much greater biodiversity in the urban forest. We've learned a few lessons from emerald ash borer and over planting those, and we finally look back at Dutch elm disease and how that decimated our elm populations.

And, honestly, maples are a big concern for so many people in this industry. Like, we have so many maples in our communities, and there are some threats knocking at our door for, you know, maple trees. And so all this applies to that urban forest too, and we need to hire arborists. We need to have arborists on staff so that we're we're taking care of, you know, the trees in our landscape well and making them, you know, resilient and healthy so that we can have them for a long time.

Just don't plant your trees this spring.

Correct.

We'll link to Ken's cicada article so you can know exactly what why we're saying. Don't plant trees yet, not in the spring. And if you do, Ken tells you what to do about it. I so are you saying, Emily, maples is maybe a trend that you don't want to see continue for the future?

Yeah. I would take out the maybe in that. I really think we need to pause on maple planting. So and before I get hate mail, I've been saying this for a long time. I've heard all the arguments.

Maples are native. There are many many species of of maple that are native, and they are lovely trees. I grew I one of my most beloved trees is a sugar maple. Was in my mom and dad's backyard. I grew up with that tree.

I climbed that tree. I watched it go through all the seasons. It's phenomenal. It is one of well, it we lost one of them in the derecho. So it was one of four tree sugar maple trees in their landscape, and that was about all we had.

We had that in elms. Right? And so we had to take the elms down. But what are we left with? Well, if something happens to the maple trees, like, we're we're gone.

Like, we're spent. Right? That takes out all of the mature trees out of their landscape. We can see that happen at a community scale. So we need to just push pause on planting maples, especially some of the red maples, for a bit and plant some other things that are, I would argue, more beautiful in some cases than there are maples and just more make our community forest more resilient because we do have threats coming, and I would hate to see communities lose such I mean, I I've seen community inventories where maples number upwards of 50% of the trees in the community.

And if we have another situation like we had with ash, that's 50% of your trees gone. And that doesn't do anything to help the environment. That doesn't do anything to help, you know, the the feeling of our communities. And so let's push pause. Let's be very strategic about when and where we plant maples and really back off on planting them, unless you absolutely must.

And I there's very few situations where I think I would I would con concede to it being a must.

I will add to that, especially when you talk about how it impacts communities and neighborhoods. Very often, when I go in you know, if there's, like, public housing, they don't have much of a budget for landscaping. Maples are cheap trees to propagate. They grow fast. They're easy to make cuttings.

They're they're fast growers. They're easy to propagate. That's why we're selling a lot of them because that's what we push a lot of. Other one is ornamental pear, at least here in Illinois. I know surrounding states, you're really smart.

You outlawed the sale of those nasty things, but we can still sell them here in Illinois as of this podcast. But so, I mean, like, if these trees fail in areas where people can't afford to buy a new tree to plant, they're left in a a treeless landscape, which would have shaded their home, kept their area cooler, would have been a place for them to get outside and and be, in in in the outdoors. I mean, it there is definitely a an a higher impact on this when it comes to lower income individuals versus the more well-to-do type neighborhoods. And it when EAB swept through, it became very apparent who could do something about EAB and who couldn't.

Yeah. The equitable distribution of the urban forest is a trend that we are seeing, actually. It is it's coming to light. There's there are resources available where there's demographic information overlaid with canopy cover information. And there's you can see some of those communities where we're we either just have a lack of trees, you know, tree cover.

There's just a lot of hardscape, and and how that relates to the demographics of those areas. So I I see that being a trend, and I'm thrilled that this is part of the conversation that hopefully that some action will be taken. We have had some legislation passed recently at the national level that is making funds more available for planting trees and to helping communities, you know, grow their urban forest. I do think that we need to make sure that we're careful about how we think through the maintenance of it. That's where the arborists and the horticulturists come in.

But That's right. I'm very encouraged. I'm very encouraged by some of the funding that's now available to communities.

And if people wanna learn more about environmental justice, I started my journey with Robert Bullard. I think that's his last name. Robert Bullard. He's written several books about this. It's very eye opening to show how, you know, if you have money, you can whisk yourself away from environmental problems, but a lot of other people can't.

So, yeah, it's a good good trend to maybe get started in in, like, trying to make that a bit more equitable for everyone. Everyone should have the shade of the tree to lounge under in a hot day.

I wanna pivot now kinda towards those trends. So we talked a lot about the ecological focused or the ecologically inspired trends. Can we talk about the ones that are just, like, art? This is just, like, design and fun, and this is plant people going, this is, like, weird, and I'm here for it.

Let's do it. Yes. Okay.

So couple of the trends, they were more based on, like, color. And we we've talked about this offline, but so let's put it out there for the world. There's a trend for some plants that chartreuse is the color. Lime is kinda is has been described as, like, the color of the year for plants. How do you guys feel about chartreuse slash lime slash really bright, not pure green plants?

In in theory, I like it. But every time I see the plants, I think they're sick. They got nitrogen deficiency or iron deficiency. They always look sickly to me. Maybe that's just because I'm used to having nice green leaves, and I just need to retrain my brain or or come to terms with the fact that some plants are supposed to look sickly, I guess, for lack of a better term.

I mean, can we say that there is there is in fact an ugly color and that is chartreuse? Like, this like, that's not a good color, maybe. That that would I want chartreuse wallpaper. Who would say that? Somebody's got chartreuse wallpaper, and they're like, what's wrong with my wallpaper?

I'm I'm sorry. I don't mean to pick on people.

We don't need to be putting down people. But, as

We don't.

Horticulturists and that science side of our brain and all of our training tells us that chartreuse is an unnatural color for plants to be. It is a sign of a nutrient deficiency. And so I'm not sure where the best, you know, data points to be reflecting on this trend. And I will push back Chris. So I don't particularly love chartreuse.

I I, again, I like the more muted colors. I like the cool colors on the color wheel. But I read an article, and I I really had to think about if I believed this or not. And the opinion was that chartreuse goes with so many other colors. So in the landscape you're shaking your head.

Let me see if I can find this. So it was talking about how you could pair it with, like, fuchsia, and it would be this really bright kind of, like, tropical landscape. You could put it with blues or muted colors, and it would be pop. It would be your accent. Right?

Some of the darker colors, it would also kinda give a balance. It would offset some of the really dark spaces in the landscape, and you could pair it with I'm thinking of, like, Heucheras. They have kinda, like, all of these colors in them. And, honestly, like, if you put a bunch of them together, they look lovely. They kinda complement each other even though they have these really unusual foliage colors.

And so what else is there? Was like, well, black. If you wanted to wear lime, there's very few black plants. And then it also said with neutrals. So I'm probably not planting it in my landscape.

But perhaps there's a place for it in a more eccentric, a more vibrant, a more loud landscape, if that's what people are going for.

It is I think it's the trend of of the of the people. I blame Bridgerton, the TV show. Am bitter today. Oh my goodness.

We are gonna get some emails.

I have some opinion about the color and fashion, I guess.

I'll try some chartiches, France.

Oh my gosh. I knew it.

If I if I knew if I know they're supposed to be that color, maybe I'll I can get past that. I think it's sometimes if it's maybe it's the new growth usually, growth is a lot brighter. That, you know, I'm fine with. But, yeah, short truth all the time. I'll I'll also defend it.

Yeah. Well, I'll also defend my beloved catalpa. So there are some plants that do have a lighter green foliage naturally. That's their their color. This is not a result of hybridization or selection.

And so the the catalpa is one of them where the leaves, especially those those first leaves, like you said, Ken, do kinda look chartreuse colored. They're more lime lime colored. So and I love the catalpa.

So Yeah.

Maybe I do like chartreuse.

Replace your maples with the catalpa. And sweet gum. And

Yes. I can get behind sweet gum. Oh,

yeah. It's

like yep. Yep.

So another color trend, let's go let's go in the exact opposite direction, which would be it was described as, like, gothic themes. And so there were a couple different ways that this went too. So first, let's talk about, like, darker colors for plants. But then I also wanna talk about cemeteries and cemetery uses, and then nighttime events was a comment that I had read about it being more of a trend, which I'm really intrigued by. So first, dark plant colors.

Chris, hot. Let's go with you. You wanna come out firing?

I I you know what? I'm I'm okay with some of of the dark plant colors. I I and it's more of that gardener's curiosity. I wanna buy it just because I've never grown it before. That's why I probably would buy maybe one black petunia to put in and amongst the other more colorful petunias or, you know, the the black iris that we have here at our office.

Everybody always comments about that. They always say something. They always like that. So I'm like, that that would be something that I would wanna put in my yard because I want I wanna have a conversation about plants, and if that's gonna get their attention, I I like I I would like that. So I I I'm okay as long as it starts a little bit of conversation.

I I can get behind that, dark colored plant. Oh oh, and black mondograss. I do really like black mondograss. Oh, man. I think I'm the opposite of everybody today.

I I am into the dark colors.

Ken? Ken?

Yeah. I guess we've grown some with the hollyhocks. They're black, really dark purple. It goes nice with all the orange rust that develops over time. And then we've done some of the snapdragons.

We just snap drag some snapdragons have dark foliage. I'm still on the fence about that. We're gonna go somewhere this year. I like it, but I didn't I don't know. I still haven't figured that one out.

And then some of the lettuces we've done, you know, some of the darker lettuces, they're more of a red, but I think they've they're very ornamental. So, yeah, I'm I'd say probably in favor for the most part.

I Maybe. Possibly. Maybe the the the problem is so we were, like, taught in design if you and and this probably goes against what I just said. But in designer, like, if you want something to blend into the background, so like a chain link fence, you you get, like, a dark green or a black chain link fence, and it blends more into the background, and it doesn't pop as much. Maybe because the dark flowers or colors aren't poppy as much, it it's not as as as desirable maybe as some other flowers would be.

Just a guess.

Yeah. I think that's fair. I don't mind them. I think there's a a place for them or there could be a place for them in a design. So last year, I grew a scabiosa, a pincushion flower, that was really, really dark.

And I I brought it in to the office, and it got so many comments. So, like, I think there's, like, an intrigue. Like, it's just not something that you you see much of. Chartreuse is a shade of green. Right?

It is it is on that green spectrum. Like, we just don't see really dark near black flowers hardly ever. And so there's some sort of, like, mystery magic, you know, element to them that I think is just really exciting. I'm also growing you reminded me, Ken. I haven't planted these things, and the the season's quickly getting away, so I've actually forgotten what I've even said I was gonna plant, but a dark basil for the ornamental value when I I'm gonna use it as a cut floor filler in my in my bouquets.

And so I'll taste it too because it's basil, but it's not why it's that's not what it was was bred for. And so, yeah, I think there's there's, like, a mystery. It can it can balance out a landscape. You can also I think we should caution people. It can create a, like, a, like, a black hole, a dark hole in your landscape, especially in shade locations.

So you really do need to be careful, especially if it's a a foliage plant. Those flowers can be offset by a green green foliage. But if it's a dark foliage plant, it can get lost. It can create, like, an empty space kind of in the landscape depending on what else is around it. So just, you know, be be adventuresome, but also keep that in mind as as you're making decisions about how to use dark foliage plants.

But Yeah.

Something something kinda fun.

I think more of them is, like, more accent Lance. But I will admit I have no landscape design background whatsoever, and I just put stuff forever. If you two saw my yard, you'd probably cringe.

They look great.

You went to convulsions or something. But I think I think it was more of a as an accent than a than a focal, which I think maybe this trend is maybe hinting at more maybe towards darker stuff being more of a focal point. But maybe that's me. If you if you wanna do your chartreuse, do that in your shade areas. That'll That'll that'll pop.

Yep. Absolutely.

There you go. Oh. Oh. Are you sure you're not a designer, Kent? That was a great

thing. Yes.

I love that. Yeah.

I'm hanging out with you.

Okay. So along still this, like, gothic theme, can we talk about cemeteries and how they're kind of, like well, Chris, like, we've talked earlier, and, you know, there was a whole cemetery movement that occurred in The United States. The cemeteries kind of originated as parks, before parks were formally designed and developed because they were preserved green spaces, so people would gather in cemeteries. It would be beautifully landscaped. They multipurpose spaces, and that seems to be coming back.

So I was reading about gatherings that are happening in cemeteries. Locally, we've had walks and talks about some of the people that reside now in those cemeteries. And so what do you guys think about this? Have you seen or you know, is anything like this going on? Of course, I think some of these trends do originate, like, on the coasts and then make their way slowly into the Midwest, but I personally really love cemeteries.

I think that merging of, like, the past and the present and then landscape and cultural aspects is just really there's a nice juxtaposition of of space use in them. So

This is great spaces where trees get preserved, and they're allowed to grow, I think, a little bit unencumbered and reach a bit more of that mature life that that they would otherwise that they would not otherwise in a more urban type environment.

Yeah. Definitely an opportunity to have, you know, kind of an arboretum of sorts and communities if it's being, you know, taken care of and invested in. I've seen I've seen both things happen where cemeteries are not planted, and there are some, actually, some legal reasons and some land ownership reasons in cemeteries. It's a really fascinating topic in terms of, like, how you can plant and manage and using up, you know, space for plantings versus gravesites. But I do.

I think I'm excited to see this happen because they are spaces in our communities that are and I didn't appreciate this until I I've got a few years under my belt, but I like them because of the the intrigue and the history. I've always really loved history. Now they're, like, they're sentimental to people too, and that is something that has most more recently come to my awareness. And so people, you know, going and gathering in these spaces, really taking care of the plots, whether they are their family members or part of their community. So there's different, you know, ethnicities that have different, you know, areas within commune or in cemeteries.

And so that's one of the things I've seen too. I think it was Oak Ridge in New Jersey. I should look this up, and if it's corrected, we'll make a we'll make a comment here in the YouTube video. But focusing on the African American population that is in that cemetery and really being intentional about honoring that culture within the cemetery. So I just think that's really, really neat and really a trend that we need to keep going.

Then finally, nighttime events, whether they're in a cemetery or not. I saw this comment about nighttime events. I go to bed very early. So I think like, oh gosh. Like, that would be past my bedtime.

But, like, at nighttime, really cool things happen in the landscape. You can observe, you know, constellations, insects come out. Certain insects are more visible and active at night. There's just a different like, be depending on lighting in the landscape, it can it can really transform, you know, a garden or a yard from daytime to nighttime. It can be totally different, and I just love it.

I think I think it's really cool. I can't participate because, again, early bedtime. But

So you you hear about people planting, like like, the moth gardens and stuff with the, like, the big white flowers and things like that. And I think, you know, a little more awareness of that and the fireflies, you know, those are another one that have people have become a little more aware of. You don't see them as much as you did as a kid or, you know, your grandparents did or something like that. So I think there's a little more awareness, you know, with this nighttime stuff too.

I can definitely get behind the moon gardens. I've heard moth gardens, moon gardens, the white foliage, flowered plants. I I I am I'm I enjoy going out at night. I enjoy going out out and looking at constellations. Actually, one of my favorite things is when my oh, favorite.

Maybe not favorite. When my dogs wake me up at three in the morning, we, like, go outside, it's sort of a cool springtime or fall night. You can look up, you can see the the stars are the brightest. But then there's, like, the moonflower over in the corner that's blooming, and it just it's like a beacon of light that just pops in the garden or, like, the the white caladium. Caladium.

That's what it is. The the white leaf caladiums. Oh my gosh. Yes.

So we lighting in the landscape, and this could be a whole podcast on itself. Chris, you and I took a whole class where we had to do lighting design, and it's really powerful. Even, like, the most subtle or smallest, you know, like, those little solar fed lights my in laws gave us for our anniversary one year, just ones that stick in the ground along our our walkway. And they, you know, they they are on battery. They power up during the day, and at night, they just emit this really cool pattern on the concrete, which is is really lovely.

It's just soft, and it it invites you out into the landscape in a way that the absence of lighting would not. Another example would be, like, overhead, even Christmas lights or, you know, like holiday lights that you just maybe don't take down from from the season. Yeah. Yep. We hosted an evening anniversary party once and and strung those up just temporarily from tree to to fence posts.

And that that kinda ambiance, that softer lighting is really lovely. And people do this in their homes, but you can bring it out into the landscape too. And so just something to play with and consider, and it can be temporary for, you know, either events or just to see if you like it or not before you commit to something more permanent.

My Christmas lights are still up and still on.

I love that.

It's gonna you're gonna get angry letters, Ken, from the city.

They used they were up for we took the old ones down because they finally started routing. They were up for about five years. They weren't always on, but and you get glowing dark places.

Festive. I think you're festive, Ken.

Christmas year round. Christmas spirit.

Any new listeners can he legitimately loves Christmas. It's, like, his favorite time of year. So he's literally celebrating all year long.

There's a whole song about it. Most wonderful time of the year. Andy Williams. Look him up.

All year long.

Okay, guys. Can we wrap it up with trends we wanna let go? We've hinted at a few of them, but there are some trends that really should to say goodbye to. They should just no longer be a thing. Do you have do you have any that you would if you could, wave your magic wand and this was it.

This is the end of them. What would it be? Chris, you wanna start?

Easy. I wanna see say goodbye to meatballs in the landscape, like boxwoods that are pruned like little balls out in the landscape or ewes or, you know, I'm gonna take my forsythia, and I'm gonna turn it into this this ball with my hedge trimmers. And we we let's say goodbye to to meatballs in the landscape. Right? I'm sick and tired of that.

Very aggressive

for me. That's my big one. That's my number one.

Wow.

You got one, Ken?

Depends on the day. I guess winter creeper. No. That's like but I'd say it's some of these invasive plants that are not invasive in Illinois, but should be invasive.

Mhmm.

Winter creeper, calorie pear, burning bush, which hopefully someday will be invasive. Get rid of this. And I think so, we're we're we're native native native, and I think almost sometimes we get little overboard and vilify ornamental plants, but not saying you know, there's some definitely, you know, calorie pear, Bradford pear, whatever you wanna call it, winter creeper, burning bush that we need to get rid of, but it's still okay to have some of these ornamentals that behave. So give that caveat there.

I support that.

Emily.

I support that. I really love natives and most men but I also really love daffodils. And they're coming up right now, and they bring me a lot of joy. So I I second that, Ken. Oh, what trend would I let go of?

I would say okay. We're we're gonna get some emails already, so why don't we keep this rolling? Just, like, the over management and over commitment to a flawless lawn. I just don't understand it. And I think we indiscriminately apply fertilizers or chemicals or water, you know, throughout really dry seasons just so we have a green grass.

There's certainly functional grass and functional turf that needs to be maintained as the you know, as a boy mom who has, you know, very active soccer and baseball kids. Yeah, there's functional grass that we should maintain. But, like, behind the outfield doesn't need to be irrigated or sprayed or maintained to the level that, you know, a golf course needs to be maintained. And so I think and I guess a couple reasons why I think we should just kinda let that go or just, like, lower our standards for some of those those grass areas would be it's gonna save us on it's gonna save us financially, you know, to begin with. And if that's not a reason to to to pull back, I I don't know what else I could say.

But, like, that's a lot of money spent on managing grass spaces or turf spaces that are not not it's not necessary. And then the ecological side of it. Right? Like, chemical applications, over fertilization, over just over mowing. Mowing is an amendment of pollution too.

I I don't I wish it would just people would just lessen our standards for turf grass in spaces that we can. That would be the trend.

You could expand that to landscapes in general. Yeah. The over

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I think front yards you know, like, I understand people wanting to have a really elegant front yard. My husband doesn't even let me mow our front yard, and it's not pristine. I don't want anybody to believe that it is super not.

There's it is not a pristine, but he likes the lines in the in the turf grass. And I do mow the lines, and I do a fine job of it, but he has just decided that that's his activity, and I respect that. The backyard, though, we let the kids go and do circles, you know, with the lawnmower, or let the dogs run around out there. And then there's a lower level of expectation out of that turf grass. And so I respect people wanting to have areas of nice turf grass.

I don't think every area needs to be beautiful, flawless turf grass.

It's the it's called mullet landscaping. Business in the front, party in the back.

I don't think I've heard that, but that I could that's fine. I accept.

Yep. It's what it is. You you have to look well adjusted and

Party in

not not crazy person in the front yard. That's why we make it look more park like in the backyard. That's where we can let our hair hang out and and have a good time. So mullet landscaping. It's a thing.

That's the trend that I'm on board with.

Well, that was a lot of great information about garden design trends and kinda ending that with a little bit of couple trends that we'd like to maybe see buy away and and go away. Actually, I I have a long written book, very opinionated about trends that I would like to see go away. So maybe we'll do a part two to this episode, and I'll just rant all the whole time about several trends. So, well, the Good Growing podcast is a production of University of Illinois Extension, edited this week by me, Karstenra. A special thank you to Emily.

Thank you so much for being on the show today and and sharing your your expertise and your opinion about our trends for this year.

Oh, very happy to join you all. Thanks for having me.

And a special thank you to Ken Johnson for being with me once again, as always, every single week. Thank you, Ken.

Yes. Thank you, Emily. Thank you, Chris. You probably should have done a disclaimer that these are our opinions, not necessarily those at the University of Illinois.

Nobody listens to this show, Ken. No one cares.

This is our therapy session, just the three of us.

Yep. It was a therapy sec. Oh, wait. Oh, I just got handed a pink slip. Oh, my.

Okay. Oh, never mind. Just kidding.

And let's do this again next week.

Oh, we shall do this again next week. We are gonna be chatting about all manner of great things. Ken, let's talk about seed starting next week. That's like something that we should talk about. Let's do it.

We'll do it. Alright. We're doing it next week. Seed starting. So listeners, thank you for doing what you do best and that is listening.

Or if you're watching us on YouTube watching. And as always, keep on growing. Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. Oh, Emily, I'm just gonna introduce you off the bat too. Alright.

Right? Like, Ken and Emily, we're just diving right

into banter?

You've you've been on here enough.

You're one of been been here enough. Yes.

Okay. One of us.

Woah. Woah. Woah. Let's

She's like, I will say you guys are cool, but please, I don't wanna be in your group. Trans to be on the what is happening?

Your speaker, they won't, like, get in and out now. What? Your voice isn't getting all it was fine, and it was like, oh, I'm a full pen. What? What?

At least to me, it

was. Here.

It was okay.

Was it? Okay. Never mind. Think over me.

I'm not picking the kids up on time, am I? This is not gonna

This is a rough start. Oh, boy. Another garden bite this week, I guess.

Blooper reel. We got enough. Yeah.

Okay. Sounds good. Well, we can do this. Okay. Number four.

Here we go.

Okay. Shall we record, like, for real instead of giving giving you all of these outtakes so we

could episode.

I mean, it's all outtakes.

All outtakes. You're like, well, good growing this week is short because we got nothing most value recorded.

Here's the bloomer reel from 2024. That's Ten hours.