Ep. 171 Periodical Cicada Preparation, Protecting our baby trees! | #GoodGrowing

Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris Enroth, borticulture educator with University of Illinois Extension coming at you from Mac Omb, Illinois, and we have got a great show for you today. We are going to be talking about cicadas. This is kind of our cicada pre show. They haven't shown up yet, but we're gonna be discussing a little bit about them to be prepared for when they do arrive.

And you know I'm not doing this by myself. I'm joined as always every single week by horticulture educator Ken Johnson in Jacksonville. Hey, Ken.

Hello, Chris. Another week talking insects.

I know. I know. Seems like the schedule, the shared schedule that we have just seems to pop insects more and more these days. You might not have a hand in that.

Right? No. Not at all.

Of course not. Of course not. Yes. Yeah. Well, so I I mean but we do kind of have to talk about this topic considering that hasn't happened for over two hundred years, won't happen for over two hundred years afterwards.

So kind of big news. It's a big deal. I would say my news feeds are absolutely swarmed with the idea of of periodical cicadas. But before we get into that, I just wanna check-in with you, Ken. How how's the garden going so far this year?

You you getting things in the ground? I know you had a little bit of landscape damage to recover from. So how's it going?

Yeah. We're getting there. Landscape damage from our our new waterline is more or less done. It's relatively level. Gotten stuff that we dug, put back in the ground.

Gotta get my onions in the ground still, the artichokes, that's all still waiting for. Were last week with the really cool temperatures kinda. Just planning on putting stuff in, then that kind of scared me a little bit so I waited. So it's going to be this week sometime, hopefully.

How about you? Well well, I I I would say I I feel like I'm a little bit ahead of the game with our our good growing grow along. I'm trying to be a bit more prepared. I've expanded my garden beds at least in full sun to try to accommodate some of the things we're gonna grow. And so that I I feel good.

I have my flat of cool season stuff. It is hardened off. They are ready to be planted. They're actually outside right now just chilling in the chilly rain that we're getting at the moment. Onions went in the ground over the weekend.

Potatoes have been in planted for about two weeks now. Oh, Ken, I'm off to the races this year, 2024. Maybe this will be my year. I got my my warm season stuff sprouting in the basement. Ginger and turmeric are popping.

I I we could use I I guess I need warm weather now so I can start getting everything outside and make some room in my basement.

Yeah. The the peppers we started are starting to bloom.

Oh. Oh.

It's so warm up so I can get those outside.

Yeah. No. I I tried to I perennialized peppers before because in their native habitat, they develop, like, woody stems and they'll flower and you can I actually got peppers inside a few winters, and they weren't that great? You know, there's not any pollination. So the pepper fruit is very pretty puny, but pay for a fresh pepper in January.

Not bad.

Yeah. Get your q tips out and start. Yeah. I could do that. Become the bee.

Yeah. And it's actually raining this spring, which it didn't do last year, so that's a nice change that we're actually giving, like, a cool rainy spring. Then we'll get all plant disease questions later this summer about what we're experiencing now. But, hey, that's fine. That's that's normal.

Business as usual.

Exactly.

To dive into the topic at hand and not so much business as usual, periodical cicadas. Now if you've been living under a rock, maybe you haven't heard about them. So, we should probably let people, you know, kind of inform folks what are periodical cicadas. Now I I guess I should I I'll retract that that rock statement because I've been giving talks about cicadas, and there is a lot of confusion about our annual cicadas versus periodical cicadas. So Ken, as our resident entomologist bug guy, can you describe the difference between periodical cicadas and an annual cicada?

Yes. That's right. So we have our annual, sometimes called dog day cicadas. Those come out every year in the summer. They're the ones we hear like July, August.

A lot of times singing from the trees. This year though, across Illinois, we're going have periodical skates coming out. So those are coming out in the spring. In the Chicago area, that's typically late May or June sometime. Central Southern Illinois, probably mid May, late May, somewhere in so a lot of it's going be weather dependent though this year.

For a while we were looking like we're going to be really early. It's cooled off so much, it slowed everything down a little bit. I wouldn't be surprised if we're earlier than we normally are for these broods. Our annual, the ones that come out every year, these are they're bigger. They're about two inches long.

They're going be green and brown and black. Whereas our periodical cicadas, those are going to be black. They're going have orange legs, orange wings and have red eyes. And they're about an inch long, so they're going to be smaller. And they come out in mass.

So millions of them across the entire range where they're emerging this year can be trillions of cicadas coming out this year, whereas our annuals are there. We've got hundreds of thousands, but not not the mass quantities coming out. So that's that's kind of the big difference. Time of year, the appearance, and just the sheer number that would be coming out this year.

And that and that's a survival strategy. Right? They've they've synced their emergence times to prime number years, which is very difficult to do in nature, it seems. Like, it's not common. Mhmm.

And so predators can't necessarily sync their natural cycle up with a a periodical cicada, and then they just overwhelm the system with numbers. And, yeah, the the predators can't eat enough and they can reproduce. And that's that's their strategy. Right, Ken? Is that what the the point of why they all emerge en masse?

Yeah. So you that that overwhelm the system, that predator satiation would be, I guess, the technical term. So basically the predators can eat all they want, be completely full, and they just keep coming. There's no way predators are going be able to eat everything. Basically those cicadas are guaranteed that a bunch of them are going to survive, be able to lay eggs and continue on those generations.

And there's there's a variety of different theories as to why this is they do this at 13 17 years. Was it, you know, prime numbers, it's hard to sync life cycles. There's some theories it's because of ice ages, you know, that slowed the growth of plants down and the insects down. And maybe they started syncing their life cycles, to make sure they were they were emerging at the same time so they can mate. Combination of both, nobody really knows.

But those are some theories as to why that happens. Then that predator satiation overwhelming the system. These cicadas don't bite. They don't sting. They're not poisonous.

They're not venomous. They basically have no defenses. Their only defense is to be so many of them that they can't possibly eat everybody.

Yeah. Yeah. And well, the defense has been working for them for generations. So the the fascinating idea that these periodical cicadas are spending most of their life underground, what, thirteen and seventeen years underground, they emerge or and they live as an adult maybe a month, and that's that's about it. So, Ken, speaking of emergence, I have the the the media spheres are are abuzz or singing, I should say, with cicada news that people are finding, like, the random cicada in, like, Chicago, Saint Louis.

So are you had mentioned that we're a little bit accelerated this year in terms of our our warm weather patterns. Are we gonna because we were talking about, like, maybe we'll see peak around May, beginning of June for a portion of Illinois. Are we gonna is that gonna get pushed a little bit earlier or these kind of just early bird gets the worm, early cicada gets the

Early skin gets eaten.

Early cicada gets eaten.

Yeah. So you don't I probably don't want to be the first cicada because you're going get eaten. It's the ones that come after you. For cicadas, it pays to procrastinate, I guess. But yeah, so the Brood 19, the great southern brood, that's going to be kind of Central Illinois, Southern Illinois, and that goes into Missouri, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, along the Gulf Coast, into the Carolinas and stuff.

So there's already there's reports of them coming out in the Carolinas. I would assume they're coming out in in, Alabama and Georgia, and Mississippi as well. I was looking at iNaturalist. There is a picture, the semi poster from the St. Louis area in Missouri of an adult last week.

And I've heard, you know, people mentioned on Facebook that they've seen them in Chicago, I haven't seen any pictures of the adults. But right now the nymphs know, my backyard, we can pop a picture up of this. The nymphs are starting to dig their holes, their emergence holes. So they'll dig those holes a couple weeks before they actually emerge. They'll dig them and they just kind of sit in the ground until soil temperatures about eight inches deep at 64 degrees Fahrenheit.

And a lot of times that's associated with rain as well. So if it gets 64 and it's really dry, they may wait there for a while. Once we get rain, then a lot of times it'll start emerging. We were getting pretty close. Springfield early last week, soil temperatures were 62, 60 three, 60 four degrees, somewhere in there.

Then we had that big cold snap. And now, you know, Tuesday last I recording this Tuesday, last I looked it was soil temperatures around 55, 50 six degrees. So that's kind of slowed everything down. I think Southern Illinois, they were past that 64 degree threshold, but I have not heard of anything coming out down there. So now that it's cooled off, I think we're and looking at the ten day forecast, we're gonna get some warm days, but I don't know if we're gonna get enough to really to get them emerging.

So it's it depends. It's all gonna be based on the weather and what's happening with that.

And so I guess when it comes to emergence and you the the big deal about this is a lot of people say, oh, these two broods are emerging at the same time in the same place. But you just described great southern brood is in kind of the Southern Part Of Illinois and then the states that you you you mentioned and then the Northern Illinois brood, that is kind of and so they they actually aren't overlapping to much extent. But there might be instances where you might see species from both broods overlapping. Correct?

Yeah. There is that potential. See, I think a lot of people, you know, we've been talking a lot about this double brood emergence. First time since eighteen o three isn't going to happen again till 02/1945. So every two twenty one years this happens.

So I think a lot of people kind of have this expectation that we're going to have two birds emerging at the same time at the same places. So we're going have twice as many periodical cicadas as we normally would. That's not then like you mentioned, that's not really going to be the case. There's there's kind of a pretty clear line between where these kind of two broods emerge. Springfield area may have both broods emerging, but they're these two broods are not expected to overlap to any great extent.

So it's it's going to be kind of a typical emergence kind of locally. It's more the looking big picture, you know, this doesn't happen. This happens every two hundred twenty one years.

Yeah. The sheer geography of that scope is that's a lot of cicadas happening across North America where, as far as we know, North America is one of the few places where we have periodical cicadas. Maybe the only place where we have periodical cicadas other than I think was it Australia might have something?

I guess someone like in India called, like, the World Cup cicada because it comes out every four years when there's a World Cup. There's something like that.

That's cool.

I don't know if but I think that's a different I don't think it's the same genus as we have here. So the periodic liscata in North America are Magi cicada because they're magical cicadas. Yes they are. So I think it's a different group. And I don't know if those those are considered periodic or not.

Because even our annual our dog day cicadas, they they're in the ground for several years. Their life cycle is longer than one year. They just haven't synced up their emergence. So some of our the ones that are coming out every year, the annual dog day scales, they may have two, three, four year life cycles, but they're not synced up. You've got individuals emerging every year.

Whereas the periodical, everything is synced up, emerging at once.

Well and and I guess the other thing to also be mindful of is that I I really like the statistic that in this ideal habitat situation where there have been trees, it's been forested, that you can get 1,500,000 cicadas per acre, which makes it sound like, oh my gosh. We're gonna be inundated with these with these insects. But it is the the it is really variable in terms of the density. I recall the last time the Northern Illinois brood emerged, And you would just it was you would find cicadas there, very common, but it was in pockets. It was kinda like how Japanese beetles are today.

You know? Just not just widespread Japanese beetles across the state of Illinois. They just occur in these, like, isolated little pockets. And the periodical cicadas back when I recall the Northern Illinois brewed emerging, it was, in pockets. These pockets are really loud.

You could hear them clearly with your windows rolled up going, like, 65 miles per hour down the interstate. But, again, it was the density was variable. So it's not necessarily gonna be just a swarm of cicadas coming at you.

Yeah. They're not they're not going to blanket the earth. So you got to have that right habitat. So cicadas, they're they're living in the ground. They're feeding on tree roots.

So one, if you're going have cicadas in the area, they had to have been there thirteen years ago or seventeen years ago depending on The trees. Yeah. There's trees and the scallions. Yeah. If you have no trees in that area thirteen or seventeen years ago, depending on where you're at, you're not going to have any scallions because they've had nothing they didn't lay their eggs in there.

They have nothing to feed on. So if you're in a newer subdivision that used to be a farm field, you're not going to have any cicadas. If you live in town, an older part of town where you've got large mature trees, you had cicadas thirteen or seventeen years ago, more than likely you're going to have them again this year. So I think, you know, out and out in the country, to speak, especially here in Central Illinois, we've got a lot of farm fields. Probably not going have as many cicadas around there unless you've got, you know, little forest pockets around water and stuff like that may have some.

But I think a lot of areas you're gonna see more of them in town, especially older parts of town that have those older trees and stuff that they're able to support those populations. Now in Southern Illinois where everything's forested or you have more forested areas or maybe some parts of Northern Illinois where we've got the the forest reserves and stuff.

You know, you'll probably see more in some of those areas. So with potentially across the Midwest and the East Eastern part portions of the country with trillions of cicadas, trillions and trillions of cicadas emerging. Are they they gotta eat something. Right? Are they gonna eat all their plants?

Is this gonna be like a swarm of locusts flying across the landscape? What do we need what do we need to be afraid of? What's what's the scary part of this, Ken? Is it all just rainbows and sunshine?

Dip and gloom. See, speaking of locusts, sometimes people call them locusts, but they are not. Locusts are a type of grasshopper, so these are not these are not locusts. This is not a biblical plague coming for us. So as far as, you know, what they're going after, so there is a one belief I've heard quite a bit is that the adult cicadas do not feed.

That's not actually the case. They will feed, But they don't really feed a whole lot, that's not really what we're concerned about. But some studies I've looked at, they've actually captured cicadas and and done DNA analysis on them to see what they're feeding on. It's usually hardwood trees. I think they found some stuff on some herbaceous stuff.

Let me look at the list. White clover, some of them mad in their guts. Marijuana. Prickly lettuce. So there's some some herbaceous type stuff, but they're not feeding enough to cause any damage or to really be any concern.

That's that's not what we're worried about. What we're worried about is the egg laying. So when the females are growing up so the males will they emerge, males will go up into the treetops and they'll start singing. That's going to attract females. They'll mate.

Females will then start laying eggs in woody plant material. You've got a large, mature, well established tree, healthy tree, you've got nothing to worry about. When they're laying their eggs, they'll make a slit into those branches and put their eggs in there. We may see some flagging where those branches kind of break and the tips of the branches will turn brown and kind of dangle. Those trees are going to be fine.

This has been happening for thousands and thousands of years and trees have survived. Those plants those trees put out more leaves than they need so they can they can afford elusive and they'll be alright. The concern is more your small trees, newly planted trees and shrubs that don't have very big diameter. Usually about the size of a pencil is what they're looking to lay their eggs in, maybe up to to an inch or so in diameter. So if you have that type of stuff, you probably want to protect those covered in some sort of netting.

Ideally, you don't want the holes to be any bigger than a quarter, maybe half an inch in size. That will keep the cicadas off the trees, prevent them from laying eggs. On our newly planted stuff, you know, they don't have a whole lot of branches. You start losing some branches here and there that could have a significant impact. May not kill the tree, but it's going to set it back and you may have to do some pruning to get the proper structure again.

If it's a really small tree and they can lay their eggs into the trunk of the tree, if that happens and it snaps, either your tree is dead or you're going have a really bushy thing. You're going have to do a whole lot of work to get that to kind of be the right form. I must say I was doing some reading on Eel. They will, they're kind of generalist, they'll lay their eggs and and all kinds of stuff. But it does seem to have some preferences.

So Morton Arboretum, last name, that came out up there, so seventeen years ago. Some of the plants that they had that were most affected were maples, cherries, ashes, hawthorns, willows, oaks, pears, rose, privet, poplar, serviceberry, and beaches. So that's a whole lot of stuff. Yeah. But if it's your trees are well established, you know, decent size, nothing to worry about.

Just just enjoy it. Don't use pesticides. They don't do a particularly good job of protecting the trees from them. The they research their studies have been done that show that netting works better than pesticides do. Pesticides are going to be of limited use and not recommended in residential settings.

Now if you're a commercial fruit grower or something like that, then yes, you're going to need to probably spray your trees to prevent damage to those so you can get a crop this year.

Speaking of netting, I will I'll share my screen so Ken can see what I'm talking about, and then I will pop these images in here after the fact here later on through the magic of editing. When it comes to some of this this netting, it it it can be pretty simple. It can be as as simple as just taking insect netting and just draping it over the plant. We do have some images. Morton Arboretum sent out a couple images of what to do and and how to prepare for this.

So we'll pop those up here with Ken and I. So, Ken, when you look at this image right here, we see a a small tree. Pretty much all of these stems are about the diameter or width of the pencil. So while, you know, again, the major hazard here is not necessarily those branches coming off your in this case, it's gonna be the main trunk. So if they start laying their eggs in that main trunk, they could totally maybe the easiest thing that they they're the least detrimental thing is they could set top that tree and it'll have to respray out.

Worst case scenario though is they kill the tree outright by by girdling the trunk totally. The tree doesn't send up new growth.

Yeah. That or you're get a wind gust and snap it because you've got some damage there. And you can see in this picture, they've secured that that netting to the base of the tree. That's going to be important. You don't just want to drape it over, especially if you're in an area where where they may be emerging from the ground in that area.

Secure that so they can't crawl up, that netting and get into there.

Mhmm. So I also I'm going to share a couple videos here with Ken. So because my my 10 year old helped me out here, I'm gonna try to edit these so that they're not so so jittery and shaky. But but, Ken, so what I I did so I I I planted two trees last year, two smaller trees, an oak and a black gum tree. And I selected these trees for why I tell people to select these trees because they have a good central leader.

Now I'm kind of afraid that if I put that netting over my trees, I might damage that central leader in some way because, you know, in Illinois, we get wind, and there's gonna be a lot of, you know, wind and movement of that that material. So I wanted to protect my central leader. So what I did and I'm just gonna fast forward through this. I created I had a a very long wooden stake. I'd say it's probably like four foot tall.

And to the stake, I secured I just took like scrap pieces of wood that I had, and I I just brad nailed pieces of in this case, what we're looking at, some garden stakes, wooden garden stakes here. And so in the end, what I'm trying to do, you can tell, Ken, is I'm basically making, like, it like, three or sorry. See these two wooden stakes crossing each other on this post. So essentially, picture in your head you're at a crossroads, and there's a sign, and there's an arrow pointing down all four four roads. That's what I'm creating.

And the idea here is this top portion, that's going to buffer the netting from impacting my central leader, and then these cross braces are going to keep the netting kind of away a little bit from some of those side branches. So to protect it from any damage from wind. So and we just brad nailed these together. Yeah. Ken's like, what in the world?

Yeah. So this is the fun of my my child trying to do a video work for me. He did a great job though. Thanks. Thank you, Eli.

So again, here's this one. And so if you're one of those people that likes to hoard scraps of lumber, hey. This is your time to shine. They finally have a use. So, again, we're brad nailing just these these extra scraps of lumber.

And I'm just using brad nails because these only have to last a few weeks. These are not permanent fixtures in the landscape. And so yeah. So you can see right here, creating those that that post, those those cross beams there to protect both the central leader up top, some of those side branches. And then when it comes to installing them let's see.

So here's my my black gum tree. So first, I have to take the deer fencing off, and I I get to shout at the deer, You didn't get my my trees this winter. So we take off the fencing, and then we we install the the cross brace right there. And there's also t posts in the shot that I used to keep the deer fencing up. I mean, if you really wanted to, I could just take one of those t posts there, put it in the ground next to that trunk, and put that that insect netting over top of that.

That will protect the central leader just as well. I wanted to add those cross braces maybe to give a little bit more room inside of that that netting for some of my side branches.

So like you mentioned, you know, this isn't a permanent thing. This is cicadas will be out four to six weeks, and then it'll be back to business as usual.

So again, I have that covered. So I I have row cover fabric. I don't have any insect netting. In a perfect world, I would have insect netting. I realized this row cover fabric is a little bit dense, so there's not as much light getting through there as I would like.

But essentially, what I did is I took the the base and I wadded it up and I pinned it to the ground, But it wasn't quite long wide enough to go over the entire tree and make it to the bottom, so I so I pinned the excess side to the ground. And then I just took some just some clips right here, and I just clipped those together, rolled it up, clipped it together so the cicadas couldn't make their way into any holes that might be in there. So, again, this is all temporary. I am super excited to to get these out of the landscape as soon as possible. So I don't have these little ghosts.

I mean, if it was Halloween, this would work perfectly, but it's springtime.

Save them for Halloween.

Yeah. I might do that. Oh, anyway, that's that's what I did this morning when it was raining.

Yeah. I still need to get all my netting, get all that pulled together and and put up. So another weekend project.

I know. Yeah. The weekends are getting less and less, Ken, before emergence time.

It's a good thing it cooled off.

Yes. Well so, Ken, we tend to focus on the negative aspects of cicadas. There's gotta be some good. Right? I mean, we talked about predator satiation, so wildlife value must be good.

What's the what's the good side of this thing? I mean, we we focused on tree damage, but what makes you happy to have these cicadas showing up?

Well, one, it's just awesome. Everybody should be happy because it's awesome. And so once in a multigenerational opportunity to have two broods emerging. Realize I'm probably an outlier thinking of that, but there are some, I guess, some should we say ecological benefits to this. So, you know, right now they're digging their emergence holes.

That's going to help aerate the soil. So if you go out in your garden or an area where you have trees, look at the ground, you may see holes about the size of a dime in the ground. Some of them have little turrets caps on them. That's to help prevent water from getting in there. And inside, we'll have our little cicadas.

I dug these up from my backyard. They've got the red eyes, which is one indication that they're getting ready to emerge. I've had them inside trying to see if I can force them to to molt early. It hasn't happened yet, but maybe I'll get there. Was hoping I could have a live adult to show, but maybe next time.

So they're they're, you know, they're aerating the soil. They've been in the ground, you know, sometimes eight plus inches deep. They're moving moving up, helping to aerate the soil. That'll make water infiltration and all that fun stuff easier. When they're laying their eggs, we get some natural pruning of trees, and this can lead to a flush of growth maybe next maybe this year, maybe next year.

They found in some trees they get increased flowering that following year because of this natural pruning. So more flowers, could be more seed, more fruit production, which could be a double edged sword. If you have more seed production in maples, you may not be too happy about it. But and other things that could be a good thing. You know, we haven't really talked about eventually, cicadas are gonna die.

And when they do, it's gonna smell terrible. I've heard of talking to my neighbors last time they came out. They were piled up maybe an inch or two deep around trees. It's going to smell terrible, like roadkill for a while. But I guess the silver lining to that is this free fertilizer.

You know, these cicadas have been in the ground for thirteen or seventeen years. They've been slowly accumulating these nutrients from trees and stuff. When they die, buys will break down and again add a big spike of nutrients available to plant. So another way they can get to see that increased growth potentially because of this. And a lot of things that you're going to eat them.

You know, some animals may almost exclusively switch over to feeding on cicadas. A lot of birds will feed on them. Small mammals will. I think they've they've been looking at stuff, you know, when birds start switching over to cicadas, caterpillar populations see a boost because nothing's eating them for several weeks. So you have more survival in those, which again could be a double edged sword.

You may have more of those caterpillars feeding on plants, but depending on the species, you're going to see more of those. And if they're, I guess, what we would consider desirable species, you may see more butterflies. Because we have this abundant food source, you may have be seeing more hatchlings survive because there's know, there's just all kinds of food. Food scarcity isn't going to be an issue, at least while the cicadas are out and things like that. And then, you know, you yourself can always eat them as well.

And I guess that can be our our sneak peek to our cicada eating podcast in in a few weeks. We'll do a whole podcast on on eating scapes, how to collect them and prepare them and all that. But humans can eat them too if they so desire.

Mhmm. Now I guess, Ken, are there any cicada harvesting foraging areas to avoid if you were a said human that is going to partake in this willingly. I will be willingly partaking in this. And I I'm looking forward to it. But what where should we not eat cicadas from?

Yeah. So first off, if you're allergic to shellfish, don't eat cicadas. They're they're related. Know, shrimp and lobsters are just aquatic insects kind of sort of. So don't eat them if you're allergic to that.

You don't want to collect them from areas where you've a lot of pesticide use. Again, they've been in the soil for a long time. They could be accumulating that stuff. So heavy pesticide use concerns with soil contamination with heavy metals. Again, same idea.

They've been in the ground for a long time, potentially accumulating those heavy metals. So avoid those. Those areas as well.

Well, Ken, I'm ready. I'm ready for them to show up. I'm ready for them to be here. As you saw, I got my frames built for my tree. I've got the the row cover installed.

I I am prepared. Yet when I look at the map of where the two broods will emerge, where I'm in, McDonough County is this little island in the cicada madness that is about to occur. So I fingers crossed that it's just because no one reported the, great northern brood was here when it happened last time. But hopefully, I'll also get some cicadas like everybody else in Illinois. But for some reason, I'm on this little island in the part of the state.

So, yeah, I hope I get some.

Yeah. Well, a lot of maps, there's a lot of variation. I I I think a lot of it depends on how they're doing their data collection.

Mhmm.

You know, are they relying on actual specimens that have been collected? Are they just relying on people reporting sightings or so yeah. There's think there's probably some gaps in the map that there probably shouldn't be. So yeah. Well, I guess we'll find out soon enough, though.

Yeah. Ready or not, here they come. Yeah. Yeah. So well, that was a lot of great information about cicadas, getting ready for them, being prepared, being well informed about what to expect.

Well, the Good Growing podcast is a production of University of Illinois Extension edited this week by me, Chris Enroth. And a special thank you, Ken. Thank you for sitting down. I mean, boy, I really had to, strong-arm you into that chair to get to talk about insects again this week. But thank you for laying down the knowledge of periodical cicadas.

Yes. Thank you. And everybody, enjoy it. Going to be awesome. Won't be it'll be another thirteen or seventeen years before you see them.

So

enjoy it while it lasts. Enjoy it and eat up.

Exactly. And let's do this again next week.

Oh, we shall do this again next week. Do you think you can can grow fruit in containers like on your patio? Well, we're gonna talk about how you might be able to do that with horticulture educator Bruce Black about containerized fruit planting. So that that'll be fun. I'm just looking forward to that.

Oh, listeners, thank you for doing what you do best and that is listening or if you're watching us on YouTube watching. And as always, keep on growing.