Ep. 175 Eating periodical cicadas | #GoodGrowing

Chris Enroth: 00:05

Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris Enroth, horticulture educator with University of Illinois Extension coming at you from Macomb, Illinois, and we have got a great show for you today. My tummy is full, and I am ready to talk about what just transpired here. It's gonna be a lot of fun. We got to fill our bellies with periodical cicadas.

Chris Enroth: 00:27

And you know I am not doing this by myself. I am joined as always every single week by horticulture educator Ken Johnson in Jacksonville. Hey, Ken.

Ken Johnson: 00:35

Hello, Chris. I think we've reached the mountaintop.

Chris Enroth: 00:38

We can retire. We can quit. It's the last podcast. Not really. Well, we'll we'll keep going.

Chris Enroth: 00:46

Just what else are we gonna do? Right? Exactly. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Chris Enroth: 00:50

Well, this has been a a very exciting week, and and I am super stoked to to dive into the topic at hand and unpack what we just did. So sort of timeline set up for listeners, viewers, we, the folks that are gonna be on the show here in just a second, we all got together yesterday, and we cooked up a bunch of cicadas. And it is now the next day, and we are here talking about it. Ken, I mean, is this this was your dream come true yesterday. Right?

Ken Johnson: 01:22

Yes. Yep. Crossed off the bucket list now. So Mhmm. Onto the next thing.

Chris Enroth: 01:27

On to the next thing. That's right. That's right. Well, I as for I I know I've I I have intentionally and unintentionally eaten insects many times in my life. So now I can just say I'm kind of a larger than normal insect than I would normally be used to eating.

Chris Enroth: 01:46

Yeah. All on purpose. So

Ken Johnson: 01:48

Yeah. For for everybody that thinks that's gross, you eat insects all the time. You just don't know it.

Chris Enroth: 01:52

Yeah. Mhmm. There's there's thresholds for insects in our food. So yeah. So well, I think it is time to, introduce our special guests for today that helped make, such an event take place.

Chris Enroth: 02:08

So we are joined by our nutrition wellness educator, Kristin Bogdonas, up in the Quad Cities area in Rock The Rock Island office. So, Kristen, welcome to the show.

Kristin Bogdonas: 02:17

Hello. Thank you for having me.

Chris Enroth: 02:19

We are happy to have you, and we are also joined by entomologist Kacie Athey, our extension entomologist here over in the Champaign Urbana campus area. Kacie, welcome to the show.

Kacie Athey: 02:34

Thanks. Thanks for having me. This has been very fun.

Chris Enroth: 02:38

This this it has been a delight. It has been really exciting getting these insects, just having the having the event happen and then trying what all the squirrels and birds and everything else have been eating and the dogs. And so, lots of animals have shifted their diet from, you know, whatever they might traditionally typically eat to consuming a large amounts of periodical cicadas, including ourselves. So, Penn, as our hunter gatherer in this instance, You're the one who went out and collected all these cicadas that we then took into the kitchen. Can you describe that process that you went through and why you have so many bags under your eyes right now and you're really tired?

Chris Enroth: 03:27

Sorry to folks. I'm kidding.

Ken Johnson: 03:29

Not really. Lots of lots of late nights and early mornings, burning both ends of the game. So, see, I would go out. I took a video of all this, and I may put it in here, and I narrated it. I haven't watched any of the videos to see how well it turned out.

Ken Johnson: 03:43

So may just get my description here. So I go out at night somewhere between ten, eleven o'clock. Would go out to a map my backyard, we've got some large maple trees back there. So we have an abundance of cicadas coming out. They're, like, an inch thick, all the shells and stuff on the ground.

Ken Johnson: 04:02

I would go out and get the tenor old adults, so those are the newly emerged, newly molted adults that come over that that those shells you find. When they come out, they're white. They're nice and soft. So we're we're using those. We don't have to remove the the legs and the wings and stuff.

Ken Johnson: 04:16

So that's what I was collecting for this. I would just put them in a bucket, bring them inside, put them in the freezer. The freezer would slowly cool them down and eventually kill them, which is kind of the most humane way of killing insects, and then can store them in the freezer, long term until, we use them here. So I did this, about over a week. I'd go out for half hour, forty five minutes at a time, collect some here and there, and and slowly accumulate my cicada stash.

Ken Johnson: 04:43

Okay. Out here collecting cicadas for the podcast, and the cicadas we're after are the ones that are white. These 10 year old adults that have just emerged from their old nymphal skin, so you can see some of them right here. And these are considered the best stage to eat, because they're still soft. They're not haven't hardened off yet.

Ken Johnson: 05:03

So what we're gonna do is we're just gonna collect these, toss them in a container, and then we'll stick them in the freezer, and that's kind of the most humane way to kill them. And then keep them in the freezer until we use them and storm kinda long term. As far as, you know, a little bit further there, the females, you can see they have this point in the abdomen. You can see the ovipositor sticking out there. Females are are considered a little

Ken Johnson: 05:32

better than males because the males

Ken Johnson: 05:33

have hollow abdomens. Females are full of eggs and stuff. A reproductive system, so you get a little more bang for your buck, a little more meat behind those. And we'll say early in the season, when they first started coming out, I was collecting them. It was predominantly males.

Ken Johnson: 05:49

Now that they've been coming out for about a week, week and a half, seeing more and more females, probably sixty forty, if not more, higher ratio than that female. So females come out a little bit later in the season. So, again, we'll just stick these in the freezer and store them there until we're ready to eat them.

Ken Johnson: 06:12

And I will say we can't you can also eat the ones fully hardened adults, the ones that are orange and black. With that, typically, you're gonna remove the legs and the wings because they're they're harder. They may get caught in your throat, but if you kinda get a little scratchy in your throat and stuff, we need we need to get some get a drink to wash them down if you do the the fully hardened adults.

Chris Enroth: 06:35

So that was a lot of work, and thank you, Ken, for for gathering our our precious ingredient for this. In terms so, like, let's say somebody is having, maybe a pocket of periodical cicadas pop up in their backyard or nearby. Do you have any additional tips or advice to give in collecting these cicadas? Is there anything to watch out for?

Ken Johnson: 07:02

Yeah. So you're gonna be they're they're emerging in the evening, typically. So you're gonna be going out late or in the evening, later at night, or early in the morning to get these with a few caveats. So if you live in an area where heavy metals are a concern in the soil, you probably wanna avoid collecting from there. I think there's some research that's been done that shows they can accumulate mercury in their bodies.

Ken Johnson: 07:25

So if you've got that concern, I would probably throw lead in some of the other heavy metals. Because either been in the ground for thirteen or seventeen years depending where on your where you're at, They've had a chance to accumulate a lot of these metals in their bodies potentially, so avoid those areas. Areas that have a lot of pesticide use, again, they've been in the ground for a while, could have the potential to accumulate those as well. So avoid those areas if you have those concerns. And We'll probably talk about this more, but if you have a shellfish allergy, you probably either want to avoid eating them or talk to your allergist first because they are all shrimp, lobsters, crabs, cicadas.

Ken Johnson: 07:59

They're all related. Cicadas are just land shrimp, if you wanna think of it that way.

Chris Enroth: 08:04

And shrimp indeed. Yeah. Watch out for those land lobsters too. You gotta be careful of those much larger insects. I'm sure they're gonna pop up eventually.

Chris Enroth: 08:14

So Ken went through all that work in in in in capturing and preserving our our main ingredient. And a few weeks ago or maybe a few months ago even, we reached out to Kristen about, hey. We would love to do a show where we eat these periodical cicadas, and I you didn't give us any hesitation. I'm pretty sure you were, like, all on board. Were there was there any hesitation?

Chris Enroth: 08:42

Like, were you like, oh, I don't know about this?

Kristin Bogdonas: 08:46

No. I think I was I yeah. I was definitely in from the get go. I like to try new things and be a part of, like, fun different things. So so I love my job.

Kristin Bogdonas: 08:55

Every day is a little different in Extension, so this has been great. And I've had, you know, crickets in the past, so that was my gateway bug. But I haven't had very many, but, I have had fun with, like, cricket tasting events in the past. So I figured this wouldn't be much different, so I was excited to be a part of this adventure.

Chris Enroth: 09:15

So we developed three separate recipes. And before we dive into those, though, Kristen, you know, I can't I can't imagine or maybe it is maybe it is just a lot like, yeah. We just substitute this ingredient out for a periodical cicada. But, like, what kind of research did you, go into, or or is there anything that was helpful in guiding how you develop these cicada recipes?

Kristin Bogdonas: 09:42

Yeah. I think, anytime you cook with a new food ingredient, you're kinda like, okay. This is different. How do I how do I use this? You know, what is the best way to cook this?

Kristin Bogdonas: 09:52

Because we want it to taste good. Doesn't matter if it's, you know, a new kind of potato or an insect. It's all kind of the same, like, process our brain goes through. Fortunately, though, I had a cookbook. It's called the Eat a Bug Cookbook.

Kristin Bogdonas: 10:07

And so, luckily, there was a recipe in here for cicadas. It's actually the pizza recipe that inspired the one that we made for the event yesterday. So from there, I just did some, you know, looking around online. I looked at other, state extension sites to see what kind of research, what kind of recipes they, you know, they have done in the past, and that was really helpful. I know Casey early on had mentioned, some recipes that she had heard about.

Kristin Bogdonas: 10:36

Ken was, you know, mentioning some cookbooks that were dedicated strictly to cicadas. So all of that really helped me in, know, figuring out, like, what three types of recipes I wanted to highlight, and I wanted to have, like, a different a different cooking method for each type so people could get an idea of how like, different ways you could prepare the same food ingredient.

Ken Johnson: 10:58

Awesome. So I guess let's let's jump into the different recipes we made. So you mentioned the pizza. So you kinda wanna take us through the process. And, like Chris mentioned, we cooked all this stuff yesterday, and we took film of that.

Ken Johnson: 11:11

So we'll splice in the film here of of the actual creation process, for all of this.

Kristin Bogdonas: 11:16

Sure. So, a really good, resource I was looking at, is from Georgia extension. And they mentioned, you know, wanting to blanch the cicadas first. So if you're not familiar with blanching, it's basically you are dipping your food into boiling water for a minute or two depending on the food. Cicadas are relatively small, so you they only really need to be in there for a minute.

Kristin Bogdonas: 11:45

And this helps to clean off any of the debris that might be on the cicada still. It helps to kill off any pathogens that might be present in or on their body. It just gets them ready to use in whatever recipe that you are doing. So we went ahead and we blanched all the cicadas before we used them in the recipes and dried them off with a towel. And the pizza one was probably my favorite.

Kristin Bogdonas: 12:10

So this is your, like, you know, pesto pizza. You can use any kind of sauce, obviously. We use the green pesto for ours with just naan bread. So you can get, you know, individual size and have everybody in your family, like, create their own pizza with different toppings that they like. Any kind of, you know, pizza crust would work well.

Kristin Bogdonas: 12:31

You you know, pick your toppings, whatever you like. Just make sure you have cicadas on there. That's the main ingredient that you cannot leave out. It really adds a lot of flair and, pizzazz. So definitely need to have the cicadas.

Kristin Bogdonas: 12:44

So, yeah, you just kind of arrange everything artfully on your pizza. Pop, you know, pop it in the oven fifteen minutes at I think we did 04:25, four fifty around there. And it's delicious. It's kinda like, I would say, like, a mushroom consistency, like, on the pizza with the sauce and everything.

Chris Enroth: 13:02

And we we tried the blanched cicadas too. So right after you brought them out of the boiling water, I I know Casey, what did you think that those blanched cicadas tasted like? Because everybody has asked me, like, we need to know flavor, and we need to know texture. So straight out of the the blanching process, Casey, what flavor and texture were you getting?

Kacie Athey: 13:26

Yeah. So I got, like, asparagus, but I think texture wise, more, like, more on the cooked very cooked side

Ken Johnson: 13:37

Mhmm.

Kacie Athey: 13:37

To texture wise, I would say. Like and maybe that's why I was getting asparagus so much because it really reminded me too of the texture of asparagus that you maybe cooked just just a little bit too long.

Chris Enroth: 13:49

Ultra salt salt and asparagus.

Kacie Athey: 13:51

It wasn't bad. It just you know, that's kinda what's also, there's a cicada in my office that is trying to sing. Just in case you hear that.

Chris Enroth: 14:01

I think I hear it. Yeah.

Kacie Athey: 14:02

Yeah. He's trying to let us know he's here and you know? So I may have to go on mute if he really gets going.

Chris Enroth: 14:10

Well, I I think that that flavor lends well to that mushroom texture that you described, Kristen. The the flavor, that texture, that asparagusiness, yeah, that's that's definitely I picked up some of that too.

Ken Johnson: 14:23

Yeah. For that, the the other toppings were what? Artichoke hearts.

Kristin Bogdonas: 14:27

Oh, yeah. We had artichoke hearts, sun dried tomatoes, mozzarella, Parmesan, red pepper flakes. So you can't go wrong with those ingredients, really.

Kacie Athey: 14:36

And the cicadas fit right in. They did. Yeah.

Kristin Bogdonas: 14:40

They did.

Ken Johnson: 14:41

So I think you're looking closely, you didn't really even notice. I mean, they were cicadas. They're just, like, chunks of sausage or chicken or whatever.

Kacie Athey: 14:50

Yeah. And from far away, I really did think, oh, those just look like mushrooms.

Ken Johnson: 14:53

Mhmm.

Chris Enroth: 14:55

With eyes. Mushrooms with eyes.

Kacie Athey: 14:56

I mean, you notice the eyes, there is that, but as far as far away. And

Kristin Bogdonas: 15:05

the other two recipes we did, one was tempura battered cicada with a spicy lime aioli. And this is one I found on a website called 24 grilling twenty four seven, I believe. And it just sounded really good. I like tempura, like shrimp, so I thought why not try tempura cicadas. And this was pretty easy to make.

Kristin Bogdonas: 15:30

So people that want to, you know, mask what they're eating a little bit better, this might be a better recipe for them because you really could not see the cicadas at all in this recipe with all that breading on there. So I thought that was good too. I think this was the winner when we took, the poll in our class. Most people liked this one, I think.

Chris Enroth: 15:50

The batter was very flavorful. Even the batter was colorful, and I I mean, it it fried to that golden color that batter does. But even like, just the batter, I'm like, I think I could just maybe eat that. But I think was there egg in there or something? It probably wouldn't be a good idea.

Kristin Bogdonas: 16:11

There was an egg, a can of Sprite, some flour. Oh, smoked paprika.

Kacie Athey: 16:16

Mhmm.

Kristin Bogdonas: 16:17

Give it that nice color.

Chris Enroth: 16:19

That's what gave it that color and that that smokiness to it. Oh my gosh. I I love smoked paprika. It is a favorite of mine.

Kristin Bogdonas: 16:26

Me too.

Chris Enroth: 16:27

And then I started fun battering, so he he maybe had a little too much fun.

Ken Johnson: 16:33

We'll see. If you're if you're doing this, the, sometimes they clump together and you end up with big chunks. We had need to work on my technique for that.

Kristin Bogdonas: 16:41

I like those big chunks, though.

Kacie Athey: 16:43

Yeah. Or it's just one. You get it's it's 10 of them. It's one nacho. I'm gonna keep saying it because it's one nacho.

Kristin Bogdonas: 16:50

It's it's all

Kacie Athey: 16:51

stuck together.

Chris Enroth: 16:52

Turns into, like, a funnel cake, you know, cicada cake. And I think we do have the next Illinois state fair food if, we wanna save a couple gallons of cicadas for cooking in August. I would try it.

Kacie Athey: 17:07

Mhmm. Yeah. They really should do that. Like, it seems like a good idea. People would like it.

Ken Johnson: 17:13

Mhmm. Get a good growing cicada booth.

Kacie Athey: 17:16

We'd run out we'd run out fast. I'm convinced people would be like, yes. I have

Chris Enroth: 17:23

to try it. Yep. Mhmm.

Kristin Bogdonas: 17:27

If it's on a stick, anybody will eat it.

Kacie Athey: 17:29

Well Yes. Mhmm. It's fried on a stick. It doesn't matter what's in there.

Chris Enroth: 17:34

Doesn't matter. No.

Kristin Bogdonas: 17:37

And then our third recipe is, the cicada sundaes. And I thought this was gonna be, the favorite, but it was not. I think there were only a couple votes. I was super surprised that more people did not vote for this one. So this is, you know, your typical vanilla bean ice cream with chocolate sauce and strawberries.

Kristin Bogdonas: 17:56

And then instead of your roasted nuts as a garnish, you have your dry roasted and ground cicadas. And I thought this was very good. You could use that topping for a lot of different things, I think. One thing we did do differently in the recipe, it said to, cook at 02:25 and to roast for fifteen minutes. So we did that, but the cicadas were still very soft at that stage.

Kristin Bogdonas: 18:20

So we ended up turning up the heat, and I think it works better the second time around. Chris, did you turn it up to 400? Or we turned it up higher, and

Chris Enroth: 18:27

I think

Kristin Bogdonas: 18:28

that worked a lot better.

Chris Enroth: 18:29

We we turned it up higher in that first batch. You know, they got nice and and crisp, and and you're able to to blend those or grind those up and using something like a spice grinder, food processor. And Mhmm. I do or we did have another batch too we threw in the pan and we, like, toasted. And I recall getting aromas of, like, almond, like, very kind of nutty aroma off those, and I popped one in my mouth.

Chris Enroth: 19:00

Like, this tastes like a like, some kind of a dessert peanut or almond or something. Yeah. It was it was pretty good.

Kristin Bogdonas: 19:08

Yeah. You could do some kind of, like, you know how around the holidays, they have the roasted nuts?

Ken Johnson: 19:14

Mhmm.

Kristin Bogdonas: 19:14

You could do something similar to that and maybe saute it with a little maple syrup or honey with some cinnamon and nutmeg. I think that'd be really good. I get kind of, like, a sesame seed flavor when I smell and eat the cicadas. So anything with, like, a teriyaki or, like, Asian flare to it, I think, would be good. And, also, you could use the ground cicadas for, like, a breading.

Kristin Bogdonas: 19:34

So if you're going to do, like, your homemade chicken tenders or you needed breading for something, you could use that as a breading.

Kacie Athey: 19:41

I also thought it was interesting because we didn't intend to ask people, like, the full just roasted it's a single cicada. We're not hiding it from you in any way. Several of the people said that was actually their favorite thing. It was just to Mhmm. That, which I thought was really interesting.

Kacie Athey: 19:55

Yeah. The ones we just threw in a pan as an afterthought, they were like, well, those are the ones that like the pan. So

Chris Enroth: 20:03

I guess let's, we did we did have an audience too, at our event yesterday. And as Kristen said, they each sampled, each, course, and they voted on their favorite. The the tempura one was, I think, the the favorite. But what about what about us? I don't know.

Chris Enroth: 20:22

Ken, did you have a a favorite out of all of those, or did you just like the soggy asparagus y flavored blanched cicadas?

Ken Johnson: 20:31

Slimy yet satisfying. Yes. They weren't they're not really slimy.

Kacie Athey: 20:37

No.

Ken Johnson: 20:38

Don't wanna turn anybody off. I mean, I liked I liked the pizza and the the battered. I think they were both I mean, I liked all of it. So if I had to pick one, I don't know. It would be the pizza or the the the battered ones.

Ken Johnson: 20:56

Those are both good.

Chris Enroth: 20:57

Yeah. Casey, did you now did you already say you like the tempura ones?

Kacie Athey: 21:02

Yeah. I I don't think I said that in this one, but, yes, those are the ones I liked the best. In fact, I kept I kinda kept eating them. The pizza was good too, but, yeah, I like the tempura ones the best. Yeah.

Chris Enroth: 21:14

I myself am a sucker for a good pizza, and that was delicious. So I I was a vote for the cicada pizza. But, Kristen, you I mean, as the I don't you know, when we all cook at home, sometimes, we're very critical of our our own dishes. So maybe you're the best judge here. What what do you think is your favorite, cicada dish that was prepared?

Kristin Bogdonas: 21:40

Well, I think they all turned out pretty good. You know, I was a little nervous going into it because I had never tried any of these recipes, and that's you know, when I do a program, it's like, I always have to make sure they taste good first. And I couldn't do that because I didn't have any cicadas. I'm up in Northern Illinois, so I didn't have anything to work with. So I was like, oh my gosh.

Kristin Bogdonas: 21:56

This has to be good for people. But I think, you know, out of all three, I think I liked the pizza one the best. You just can't go wrong with all of those flavors, the pesto and the cheese and the sun dried tomatoes. I just love all of that. And that's something I eat regularly anyway.

Kristin Bogdonas: 22:12

So that would be something easy for me to adapt. If I do wanna, you know, do this again, it'd be easy for me to make that, when the cicadas start coming out. But for sure, the pizza, probably second, would be the the the soggy blanched. Asparagus ones. Yes.

Ken Johnson: 22:33

And I think that that pizza, if you're not I mean, obviously, you're gonna be looking at it. But if you if you're not paying close attention, I think that pizza kinda masks the cicadas a lot more. So if, again, if you have somebody that's a little more hesitant, we put a little more cheese on there or put the cicadas cheese on top so it's melted and they can't see it.

Kristin Bogdonas: 22:52

And we left them whole, so you could always, you know, chop them up a little bit because the sun dried tomatoes and the artichoke hearts were chopped up. So you could always do the same thing with the cicadas. And they're not huge. They're only about, you know, an inch or so.

Chris Enroth: 23:05

Yeah. And I think we were talking before the show, and our main comment we got from a lot of other people who saw pictures or saw the cicadas was, oh my gosh. They have heads and eyes, and you left those on. And so, yes, we did. It I mean, it all tastes the same.

Chris Enroth: 23:24

But if yeah. As Kristen said, if you want, take the head off so you don't have to look at them while you're eating.

Kristin Bogdonas: 23:30

Be a lot of work, though. Yes. Yeah. That's a lot

Kacie Athey: 23:33

of work.

Chris Enroth: 23:33

A lot of twisting. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Chris Enroth: 23:37

So I I I I, again, had way too much fun doing this. This was a lot of fun. And and people are if you're curious, we will post these recipes in the show notes down below. So if you wanna try them, you print them off and try them at home.

Kacie Athey: 23:57

10 out of 10 would recommend.

Chris Enroth: 24:00

Yes. Oh, so with when it comes to eating insects, Kristen, is there any benefit, or can we just throw some chicken on there and it's the same thing? Like, is this protein that we're eating, like, is it good, bad, healthy fats? Like, what's what's inside of this bug that might be even more incentive to try it?

Kristin Bogdonas: 24:25

Yeah. So I think, when you think about edible insects as, you know, a potential protein source, there is a lot of other benefits too in addition to the protein. So it's got a good, you know, source of protein. It's got a good source of fat. It's got, you know, a variety of vitamins and minerals.

Kristin Bogdonas: 24:42

So if you think about insects as a whole, I mean, it's going to depend on, you know, the species you're looking at, its developmental stage, kind of, like, its environment. Like, where did it grow up? What's in the soil or, you know, where did it come from? And its diet too is gonna play a big part in that. So, yeah, it's hard to kind of, like, pinpoint each one of those.

Kristin Bogdonas: 25:04

There's a lot going into all of that. But, in general, you know, just think of edible insects as a good source of protein, fat, vitamins, and minerals. Looking at the cicada, it's going to have some extra carbohydrate compared to something else that doesn't have, that, you know, exoskeleton. And I think for the latest article I looked at was around 16% carbohydrate. In terms of fat, we're getting more of those heart healthy unsaturated fats, which is something that we're always telling people to get more of, and less of that saturated fat that you would find in, like, something like red meat.

Kristin Bogdonas: 25:43

So those are some definite pluses. It's also gluten free. A lot of people are, you know, opting to go gluten free for a variety of reasons for GI issues or whatever it may be. Also keep in mind, though, that, cicada and maybe some of the other ones that have that tough outer shell is that if you eat a lot of them, it can cause GI upset. So just keep that in mind.

Kristin Bogdonas: 26:06

And I know Ken I think you mentioned earlier about, you know, harvesting at the tenor stage before that hard outer shell has fully developed so you can cut back on any potential gut issues like that. But I think there's a lot of nutritional value, and they're nice because they have a low environmental impact. So

Ken Johnson: 26:25

Saying I I know for for crickets, I would assume this to be the same. Are they more efficient at at growing, you know, protein production that compared to our all of our livestock and stuff too? So we'll we'll go to Casey for this one. So I think we've seen probably an increase in interest in in eating insects in The United States and get into why that is in a little bit. But, like, superior aqua cicadas, would it be practical for them to become a common ingredient in American cuisine?

Ken Johnson: 26:54

Or and if not, what other insects could we look at for that?

Kacie Athey: 26:59

Yeah. I I think theoretical cicadas, I think for the novelty of them, every place that a brood comes out, which, you know, we have a brood somewhere in The US most years, I can imagine that being something that pops up in those areas every time. But as far as being something that becomes part of the diet, given their long life cycle, it isn't something that we would suggest, oh, yeah. That's something that we could definitely make into a food source. They take seventeen years or thirteen years to become adults.

Kacie Athey: 27:30

Maybe the worst possible thing we could use for a food source outside of the novelty of when they all come out at once. But, of course, as you mentioned, there's things like crickets, which we've been we've been, you know, sort of domestic animals in production for exotic pet food for a very long time, things like lizards and that sort of stuff, the things that you can buy in the in the stores, mealworms. And so for the human side of it, protein powders seem to be kind of where the insect consumption for humans is going. So if you think about, yeah, anybody who does bodybuilding and they buy the protein powders with the chocolate, there's quite a few companies that are putting cricket, basically, powder into those instead of the, you know, milk based proteins. And so that, I think, is a viable market.

Kacie Athey: 28:25

And then on a larger scale, insects as pet food. Things like black soldier flies and then feed for chickens. If you think about, you know, how many people now have chickens in their backyard, you can buy your chicken feed that is, you know, of course, made of insects, and there's companies that specialize in that as well. So maybe a little less on the getting humans in The United States to eat a full insect outside of the novelty of, oh, buy this bag of mealworms or something. But on a larger scale, the the powder side of it probably is where where we would be trending towards.

Ken Johnson: 29:09

I think we should probably point out that outside of people of European descent, I would say is probably a good generalization. Western culture, we're kind of the outliers in that we don't eat insects. A lot of cultures around the world in Asia and in Africa and Central South America eat insects as part of their diet. Maybe not a staple, but they do consume them with some regularity.

Kacie Athey: 29:34

Yeah. And I guess I always think about, like, on a larger scale, if you're thinking about incorporating those, like, even within the cultures that do it, it's still more of a small scale, kinda like our novelty with cicadas a little bit. I mean, not everywhere, but in a lot of places. As you said, it's not really a staple of the diet. And I think with the cricket powder, I think some of those the goal is to make those things more of a protein staple than, you know, things generally are for humans eating insects possibly.

Kacie Athey: 30:10

But, yeah, I mean, that's that's also the always specifying in The United States because, yeah, it's not yeah. It's definitely different different other places.

Chris Enroth: 30:25

That is it it's just yes. I I think it's the the big agricultural problem that we are all tackling right now, in that how do we convert sunlight into our calories? And, you know, right now, the current US model is, not much plant based, lots of meat based, you know, beef and poultry and pork, all that stuff. But with a growing global population, less and less farmland availability, how are we going to feed more people with less land, converting, again, that sunlight into calories. Insects are more efficient at that, in terms of where they stack in the food chain.

Chris Enroth: 31:14

So it's it seems like a pretty viable option for us to gain some of our calories from insects for the future. And that sound bite can be taken way out of context, I'm sure, and I good growing. This is our last podcast. So yeah.

Kristin Bogdonas: 31:36

I think people, once they try it, though I mean, if once they get past that that fear factor of eating insects, like, I'm eating a bug. You know? Once you get past that, you're like, oh, it tastes like asparagus. Oh, it tastes like mint. Oh, it tastes like something else I like, then it's not as absurd to think.

Kristin Bogdonas: 31:55

Maybe I can incorporate this into more of my diet. Like, maybe I can make this can have, like, a permanent place in my diet. You know? So I think, like, anything, it just takes a lot of, like, positive repetition, a lot of you just have to try it, like, so many times. Like, when you're little, you have to try something 10 to 12 times before you might like something.

Kristin Bogdonas: 32:17

So it's just like any new food. You just have to keep trying it. We just have to keep creating those positive environments for people to take part in. Like, the workshops we did, tasting events, like, all of those are gonna help people, you know, change their mindset around the possibility of adding this to their, you know, menu Mhmm. On a regular basis.

Chris Enroth: 32:40

We have taco Tuesday, meatless Monday, cicada Sunday, which is one of the one's one of the recipes that we used yesterday. So, yeah. I mean, it just you can slowly incorporate that stuff into our diet and, yeah, just try new things. We live in this pretty cool world. Let's try new things, and and it, yeah, it doesn't have to be just, you know, same cereal every single day.

Chris Enroth: 33:08

Throw some cicadas in that milk. See what happens.

Kacie Athey: 33:11

And it's not fear factor. Fear factor is bad. No one eats things like they do on fear factor, and I'm I'm convinced that that set back the idea of anybody trying insect food a fair amount because without that, you aren't picturing, oh, I've got a live insect. I'm supposed nobody eats anything live. And so, yeah, fighting against that, making things that are yummy, that look yummy is is all for the better.

Ken Johnson: 33:42

Yeah. That that cultural stigma

Kacie Athey: 33:44

Mhmm.

Ken Johnson: 33:44

Is is very strong.

Kacie Athey: 33:46

It's very strong. And it existed before. You know, we have the ick factor with eating insects. But then when that show became a thing, it was like, no. No.

Kacie Athey: 33:54

This is something that horror movies are made of, so don't do it. You know? Like, that just made it way worse.

Chris Enroth: 34:00

Mhmm.

Ken Johnson: 34:02

Yeah.

Chris Enroth: 34:04

Alright. Anything else? Otherwise, we'll move into the closing portion

Ken Johnson: 34:09

of the show. Should we give our five stars, four stars? Give our star ratings for the Oh,

Chris Enroth: 34:15

I yes. Yeah. Ken, let's let's talk about the, star ratings here for this meal. I mean, Michelin style. Right?

Chris Enroth: 34:24

Is that what we're looking at? No. I I what's this what's the I don't know. What is the scale? Is it four or five?

Chris Enroth: 34:33

Like, what's the max? I don't I don't know. I'm not that

Ken Johnson: 34:36

Seven. 10?

Chris Enroth: 34:38

Seven? I've

Ken Johnson: 34:39

never been to 100.

Chris Enroth: 34:39

A hundred. I

Kacie Athey: 34:40

think I've been to one either.

Kristin Bogdonas: 34:42

I'll look it up.

Kacie Athey: 34:44

4,000.

Chris Enroth: 34:45

Four thousand gold Michelin stars.

Kacie Athey: 34:48

1,000,000. I can throw out numbers randomly.

Kristin Bogdonas: 34:53

It's up to three.

Chris Enroth: 34:55

Up to three. Okay.

Ken Johnson: 34:57

Great Michelin stars.

Chris Enroth: 34:58

Man, that's a rough scale. Whoo. That

Ken Johnson: 35:01

was more than that.

Kristin Bogdonas: 35:02

So the quality is let's see what it says here. Okay. This is not what I thought it was going to be. Like, the little description was like, oh, this is exactly what I want, and then you click on it. It's like, wait.

Kristin Bogdonas: 35:13

What is

Chris Enroth: 35:14

Nope. It's like, oh,

Kristin Bogdonas: 35:15

it's Okay. So it's quality of the ingredients used. There's five criteria. There's quality of the ingredients, mastery of the flavor, and then, like, the rest is kind of blocked out, and I can't

Chris Enroth: 35:27

Presentation. Or

Kristin Bogdonas: 35:31

Oh, here we go. Quality of the ingredients, mastery of the flavor, and cooking technique, the personality of the chef in the cuisine, harmony of flavors, and consistency between visits.

Kacie Athey: 35:45

K. Well, we have one visit. Very consistent.

Ken Johnson: 35:47

I have to try

Chris Enroth: 35:48

this again. Years.

Kacie Athey: 35:52

Every thirteen. Yeah. We can't give a rating for the next thirteen, twenty six, one, thirty nine years because they've all done it three times.

Chris Enroth: 36:00

There you go.

Ken Johnson: 36:04

One star signifies a very good restaurant. Two is excellent cooking that is worth the detour. Three is exceptional cuisine that is worth a special journey. So I'm thinking maybe it should be three since

Kacie Athey: 36:15

Yeah. We were working

Ken Johnson: 36:16

on couple

Kacie Athey: 36:17

of journeys.

Ken Johnson: 36:17

This is thirteen years.

Kristin Bogdonas: 36:18

Think so.

Chris Enroth: 36:19

Very special journey. Yes. Yes. I I think the the ingredients were top notch. Presentation was was outstanding.

Chris Enroth: 36:29

Personality of the chef really shone through. And, yeah, I three stars all the way. Also, I could probably eat that tempura dipping sauce on everything. Yeah. So that it was delicious.

Chris Enroth: 36:44

Again, recipes in the show notes down below. Alright. Well, that was a lot of great information about eating cicadas, periodical cicadas, I should clarify. The Good Growing podcast is a production of University of Illinois Extension, edited this week by Ken Johnson. A special thank you, Kristin Bogdanis, nutrition and wellness educator up in Rock Island County.

Chris Enroth: 37:06

Thank you so much for being on the show, putting together our menu, cooking an outstanding meal, and and just all around just introducing us and a lot of other people to eating insects. So thank you very much. Thank you. And Casey Eisley, Extension Entomologist over in Champagne or Banner, as I like to say, shampoo banana over there, learning us all about them bugs. So thank you very much, Casey, for also being with us on this journey, helping be our our guide.

Chris Enroth: 37:40

You are our our our spirit animal, our shaman, our the medicine woman. Yes. Thank you so much for everything. And our mascot.

Ken Johnson: 37:51

Actually, there's the spirit animal right there.

Kacie Athey: 37:52

I think that's what you're right there.

Chris Enroth: 37:55

So thank you also for helping us out with this.

Kacie Athey: 37:59

Oh, yeah. Wouldn't have missed it. And

Chris Enroth: 38:02

and Ken, you did great too.

Kacie Athey: 38:07

And Ken was here.

Ken Johnson: 38:10

Yes. Thank you, Kristen and Casey. It was it was a lot of fun. We'll have to find some more insects to eat or

Kacie Athey: 38:15

Yeah.

Kristin Bogdonas: 38:16

Anytime. To.

Ken Johnson: 38:17

Four years do this again.

Kristin Bogdonas: 38:19

Absolutely. Yeah.

Ken Johnson: 38:20

The next brood comes out. And here gonna cut in real quick. There's a few people we forgot to thank while we were recording the podcast. First, Matt Wiley and Jenna Brash from our state communications and marketing team. They took all of the video and photos of us cooking and eating the cicadas, so thank you to them.

Ken Johnson: 38:36

We could not have done this without them. Also, the staff at the Sangamon County Extension Office, thank you for letting us invade your kitchen, and and eating some of cicadas with us, and as well as all of everybody else who came to the office and tried cicadas. Thank you to all of you. And and Chris, thank you as always. And let's do this again next week.

Chris Enroth: 38:56

Oh, we shall do this again next week. We will be sleeping off on our cicada slumber. Next week, we'll come back to you with a brand new show, so look forward to that. So listeners, thank you for doing what you do best, that is listening, or if you're watching us on YouTube watching. And as always, keep on growing.

Ken Johnson: 39:24

You're good.

Chris Enroth: 39:24

It's like I'm really I really will sniff.

Kristin Bogdonas: 39:30

Here we go.

Chris Enroth: 39:32

Oh, it's video.

Kacie Athey: 39:34

Just eat it. Ready? Alright. Yep. Let's do it.

Kacie Athey: 39:53

Mealworms too. Mhmm.

Ken Johnson: 39:54

Up again.

Kacie Athey: 39:55

I bet they are.

Ken Johnson: 39:57

Oh, god.