Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris Enroth, horticulture educator with University of Illinois Extension, coming at you from Macomb, Illinois, and we have got a bookworm show for you today. It's all about books. It is, what, the 1st week of December. You might be looking for a gift to buy that gardener in your life, or if you are that gardener, a book for your gardening life.

And you know I'm not doing this by myself. I'm joined as always every single week by horticulture educator Ken Johnson in Jacksonville. Hey, Ken.

Hello, Chris. Thinking we have to increase my Amazon wish list after this.

Or, you know, increase the wish list. Also, add on a new nightstand to hold the extra books that we're about to order. Her bookshop. Yeah. We're gonna need some more furniture after this episode.

Oh my. And we are also joined by horticulture educator, Emily Zweihart, up in the Quad Cities area. Sounds so I don't know. Wizard of Oz when we say Quad Cities. I I like that.

So, Emily, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me. And I wore my, your ruby red slippers today. So, we're ready to go.

Yes. Well, thank you for joining us today, as we talk about what we are wanting to read and and enjoy. And so, yeah, we we have a long list of books to get through today. So I think we should probably just kick this off the very beginning. I gotta ask you guys because I have a problem with this.

Do you read? Do you read? Not can you read, but do you read? Emily, do you read?

I love reading. So my kid the other day asked like, what do I do in my spare time? And I laughed and struggled to come up with an idea because I don't have a lot of spare time. But when I do, I like to read. If I, it's I've said for a very long time, my retirement plan is to be a librarian, but the worst kind of librarian, the one that doesn't help people, but just reads all the books.

So I love reading. I do not get to do it enough. I find as I age and I get a lot more on my plate, my focus isn't quite what it used to be. And so I need to kind of like work that muscle a little bit more. But, yeah, I love reading.

I love reading. So how about you guys?

Ken, do you read?

Yeah.

I read all day. Not necessarily for pleasure, though.

Yeah. I hear you. Lots of emails need to be read. Email.

Yeah. Yeah. You're kind of in a similar boat yet. I like reading, but don't really get a chance to read until the kids go to bed. And by that point, if I start reading, I I fall asleep.

So not not as much as I would like.

Yeah. That's true. I so several, Extension, we have our different, publications, but there's one, the Journal of Extension. They publish research articles. That came out this morning.

So I found myself reading lots of research articles, but this I I don't think we're here to talk about research articles today. So, I I guess if maybe we all need to work that reading muscle a little bit more when there's time. But, yeah, I'm like Ken. When when there is time to read, it's usually a few pages in and my eyes close and I fall asleep.

How, when you do decide to read a new book, like, let's say I I guess I go through seasons too. Like, in the winter, I do read a lot more than I do, like, in the growing season or when we're, you know, in the midst of all the youth sport activities. How do you choose books that you do you want to read? Do you take recommendations? Do you have certain subjects that you like?

Like, what how do you pick a book?

I would say whatever's in arm's reach, is usually what I wind up reading. And and it is often for me is determined by what am I working on at work. So a lot of my fun reading is related to work reading. Might be a conference that I've been to, a particular book gets mentioned or publication, like, oh, I wanna read that. That that is a lot of what I do.

So a lot of my, again, my off work reading is I try to tie it into work reading because, apparently, I don't like myself.

No. That doesn't that's not a reflection of how much you like yourself.

Just I know. I I I just can't stop. We'll just say that. I I have a problem.

Jim Ken, how about you?

I'm probably similar as part of it's plants insect related. Or, you know, listening on usually listen to NPR, and they have authors on, and that book sounds interesting and get it. And then, you know, you'd look at the other suggested books, and then go down a rabbit hole. And next thing you know, you got 10 new books added to your wish list. And there you go.

In preparing for this, I discovered kind of how I look at horticulture books. I I picked up on a few trends I didn't realize that I had before. So first, I don't I don't read a lot of fiction. I and if I do, it is generally and I'll I'll share one of the fiction books that I like, but it's, Hort adjacent is what I would say. There's some sort of like natural element, that is that plays a really big part in the book.

So that's all I that's really what I've leaned towards for fiction. But as far as, like, nonfiction, I have found that I do tree books. I really can't get away from all the tree stuff, and so it's just like, can you, I count on you for the entomology. You can count on me to read a tree book that comes out. But then also indigenous cultures.

I have found that I actually am drawn to different authors or different books that talk about, like the, you know, indigenous people and their connection with nature. And I'll share a few of those too, but, didn't realize that about myself. And so maybe that's how I'm gonna pick books from now on too. Mhmm. I do a favor, though.

I don't know. I think you guys probably do this too. Like, I have, you know, like, lists saved, and I like all the, online features where they make recommendations based on what you have either saved to read or the ones that you have logged as being read. So, I appreciate those recommendations.

Yeah. And and we will have lots we'll have a well, recommendations here throughout the show and and and many more later on about books that we've read and books that our colleagues have also read. We have accosted them at a conference a few weeks ago and, made them tell us their favorite books that they read for for work or for fun. So but, yeah, really, we're looking primarily horticulture related books, whether or not fiction, nonfiction. We can go many different ways, and we'll even have some children book recommendations here later on.

Why don't we get into it now? We've we've talked enough about picking books and what we our reading habits are. Let's actually talk about some books, shall we? Well,

I I will kick it off by by sharing a few books that I have. Now I haven't necessarily read all of these, but these were gifted to me by a family member. Their father was a forester, and, he had several older books about forestry, trees. You know, this one, forest soils, these are not ones that that you would necessarily find, right now, but this is one that I I enjoy reading these types of books. 1, because they really knew how to write well back in the day.

Like, there's some, like, good examples of writing, but it also so this one about forest soils was published in see if I can find the copyright date to be exact here. This was published in 1947. And we get in, like, the thirties and the forties. We're really just starting this, like, scientific adventure into the world of nature. Like like, yeah, we had a lot of we did have science before that, but it was, like, not as well documented.

And now we're, like, writing things down. We're publishing them in books. We're reviewing them. We're critiquing them. Like, this is the beginning of it.

And it's kind of neat to kind of to see that springboard into a much larger world. This other one, Forestry and Conservation at Indiana, goes all about the Purdue Forestry Department, and it covers a lot about what extension did back in the, forties fifties, for forestry in in back then. And you wanna know there's a couple species that they recommend that we wouldn't necessarily want, like bush honeysuckle, growing in our forest today. So it you can see the the change in in how it is. But I like to read those books because, the writing is just it's just fun to read.

Yeah. Some of those old books, it's fun to look at the recommendations. I've got some older pest management stuff and some of the chemicals they recommend there. It's kinda wild.

Yeah. Yeah.

I like seeing that. Maybe you can see the evolution of the industry, and I and I like that. And some of my books really focus on that, like the, the culture of plants, not like the scientific, aspect of them, but like the way that they factor into our culture and, you know, the land management and the evolution of that is, part of the story of the relationship between plants and people. And so, yeah, it's it's fun to see those books and to have them and to identify those plants, we're like, what was that? Like, if we could go back in time, like, we would want to stop, you know, those recommendations.

But I also like to bring it into the present day and think like, I think I know, and we do our best, right, to make our best recommendations with what we know now. But I am just afraid of future me going, oh, that's, I said that, and I regret that. Like I wanna go back and Yeah, right. Yeah. Because there's probably things we don't realize we're doing now that are probably not best practices.

I don't know what they are. If I did, I would have more free time because I could be retired. But, no, those are fun. Some of the, like the reference books that I use, and like I said, I like books that are more, like to tell the story. Of course, we know like the plant knowledge, We like how to grow plants.

Like, those books are really useful or, like, what chemicals do, you know, recommend? And I've got one, diseases of trees and shrubs. Like, this one is fun to read through. Let's see. Get it focused.

It's a big, heavy, like, traditional textbook, but I like more like nerdy ones that just like focus on tree bark. This one my in laws gifted me.

That cover just says bark.

It does. It just says bark, a field guide to trees of the northeast. But so there's a dichotomous key for identification based on bark of a tree. And I maintain that bark is an underappreciated characteristic of our woody plant materials. And so, just really love, I can show a picture here, but like this would be like shagbark hickory.

Oh, come on, focus. But this is one of my favorite trees that I just happened to turn to, but it shows how it ages over time. And I love that it, it's hard for us, I think, in the, you know, daily lives or annual cycles that we live in to really observe how trees change and evolve, and this does it for you. It shows you young tree up you know, as it ages and gets some wrinkles like we do. Right?

So it also talks about the habit, but I I don't know. I would recommend this to any tree nerd.

Ken, do you got a reference book that that, helps you in your insecto world that you live in?

I've I've got several. Now I can go with a a non insect one first, though. It may become as a surprise to people, but when it comes to, like, ornamental plants, I'm not very good with it. So the herbaceous perennial plants, by, Alan Armitage, who is a retired professor from University of Georgia. It's a really good book.

You know, your typical guidebook by species and how to grow them, and it gets into cultivars and well, because nice nice thick book. I obviously have not read the whole thing, but when I'm doing, you know, articles or something on a plant that I'm not all that familiar with, it's nice to to check that and make sure I'm not completely off base with what I'm saying. But I will say he does talk about teasel in there and why maybe we should grow up more. So I don't know if I necessarily agree with that. Oh, dear.

But Yeah. Yes.

Ken, why why am I when you said, I don't know much about ornamental plants, I somehow picture you, David Attenborough style narrating planet earth documentary, like, look at that plant over there. Looks like a plant. And look at that one over there. It's green like a plant.

What's going on in my head like that?

That one's a little bit taller than this other one.

I like that one.

It's a plant. Yes. The people seem to like it. Oh, there's

an insect on it.

Let me get my giddy. Bugs.

Yes. Oh, God.

That's so then we'll go to plant and insect here. So, carnivorous plants. I've I've got quite a few of these. The Savage Garden. Let's say if you're gonna buy any book on carnivorous plants, this is the one you get by Peter D'Amato.

It's kinda, quote, unquote, the the bible, so to speak, of of carnivorous plants. So it goes through, species by species, on how to grow on the requirements, what they're supposed to look like, get some of the cultivars, you know, especially with, like, some of the, the pitcher plants stuff. So if you wanna grow carnivorous plants, I think you'd I think you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who wouldn't recommend The Savage Garden.

It also has an excellent title. That that matters. That's an excellent title.

Like bark. Yeah.

Bark. I mean, come on.

And then

I might have better examples.

Saying that insect lies. I don't know if I picked 1 because I don't know. There's we could do a whole show on that. I've talked about this one on the show before. Caterpillars of Eastern North America, by David l Wagner.

Again, it's just species by species, pictures of caterpillars, what they look like. Now this is like the the last instar, so the largest caterpillars. Sometimes, their appearance can vary depending on the instar. So these are our last instars. So if you got really young ones, it may may or may not be all that helpful.

But, you know, how do I DM? Where where you find them? Kind of the habitats to find them. List common food plants. So I think with one of the presentations I do for, pollinators and stuff, you know, if you've got a caterpillar you want to or a butterfly you wanna attract, I like this book.

You can find out some of the the food posts for it and and just get a general comments, on the on the insects as well.

Kristy, any insect related ones?

Oh, do I? Well, actually, I don't really have very good, insect related resource book, but the book that I am currently reading that is sitting by my bed is called mosquito or the mosquito, the human history of our deadliest predator by Timothy c Weingard. I have had this book since, like, mid October. So I have dog ear to page 41, and I have picked this up multiple times to try to read it. As we've said before, I I usually fall asleep or have a child curl up in my lap and say, read me a book.

And, they don't wanna be me to be reading about malaria to them for some reason. But I think it's fascinating. For our Halloween show, we referenced this book, Wicked Bugs by Amy Stewart. This is a really good book. I did read this one pretty much cover to cover.

I maybe skipped a couple bug insects here, but this is fascinating. I love the stories that that come with this one as well. So those are my that's my insect contribution for today. So I I've I am really enjoying the book, The Mosquito, despite not being able to get through it as quickly as as I wish. So, I'm reading it.

Hopefully, we'll do a a mosquito show later on, in maybe next year sometime. So it might take a while for me to get through this book.

Is it dense? Like, is it information dense? Is that Yeah. Yeah.

It is. So, yeah, you gotta, like, go back a few pages when you pick back up on it to remember where you were. There are a few things. And and if we do a mosquito show, we might talk about this that I read this and I'm like, I I I don't know. I I need to do more research on it.

Like, how they talk about how mosquitoes were around during the day of the dinosaurs and how not only was the meteor impactful to the dinosaurs, but mosquitoes also could have contributed to wiping them out. Sounds crazy like calling birds dinosaurs, you know, way back when. That sounded nuts, but who knows? Maybe mosquitoes played a role in that too. So, yeah.

So just getting into that book.

Well, that's awesome. That's awesome. I grabbed a few insect, adjacent insect related books because we get a lot of questions about it. And my 2 are, for the pollinators, for native pollinators. Heather Holmes has a couple of really good books.

She's with Xerces Society. So we have bees, an identification and native plant forage guide, and then pollinators of native plants. And I like these books because oftentimes what I'm looking for when I'm going to these resources is that relationship between the plant and the pollinator, the plant and the insect, and trying to help people or make decisions for myself as to like what to plant in order to support our native, pollinators or bees, you know, like specifically bees sometimes. So that's where bees comes in. But they're really nicely organized.

Talk about different species. Well, let's see, I have to go to the pollinator one. So they are organized by ecosystem, which I really like because that kind of affects what type of plants you're planting. The prairies are generally like full sun. They can be, you know, wet, musick, or dry.

And it has nice little charts that that really clearly articulate that information without having to, kind of disseminate it from a lot of text. It's just a pretty clean, clean guide. So I like that it's divided by ecosystem, but then in the back, there are, more, like, just charts you can peruse and look through, and I enjoy just kind of looking at the different relationships between, like plants and how many different species that they support. Doug Tallamy has done some of that work too. I think it's fascinating how like not all native plants are created equal, and sometimes we want to say plant native, and like that's as far as we get, whereas actually it's much more nuanced than that.

And so these, these guidebooks help, provide additional information, you know, more than just plant natives. And then, I also appreciate whenever a book will put in just garden plans. I like to do my own, but I know that that can be an uncomfortable situation for people. Like they don't know where to start. Now, I often take these plans and go, yeah, I don't really want that plant in there, but what could I substitute in it?

But it's a jumping off point for people. And so like you've got here, I just turned to like woodland edge pollinator garden. So it's part shade to sun. There's mesic to sandy soils, loam to clay loam soils. And there's like a whole plant list and with the number of plants you put in it, and this is for 16 by 11.

So like you can modify this, you can manipulate the shape of the garden, the number of plants like shrink it or expand it if you want, combine some of them. But it's a nice, it's a nice place to start along with having that information and making informed decisions. If you really want to support pollinators, plant things that are gonna support a lot of them or be very targeted, like, can you, you could speak, you know, for days on this, but like that, that very specific, relationship between some of our pollinators and specific plants, monarch being the most, you know, like, well known, but that's they're certainly not alone in their specialization. So, but Heather Holmes and Xerces societies in general just has really excellent, information. So

Yes. I almost grabbed that book.

Did you? Good.

Yeah. And then I've got the Xerxes site has got some on, that I didn't grab. I've got it in my home, but on, gurney for, like, natural enemies. It's not just pollinators, but your parasite Yeah. Or soybean predators and stuff too.

So those yeah. Those are all good.

Very good. Well, go ahead.

I I was just gonna maybe shift gears a little bit and to focus more kind of on plant science because I don't know about either of you, but it has been almost 20 years since I've been in a Hort 101 crop phys class. It's been a while. I don't remember everything that I was taught back then. So I will usually turn to a couple books, that kind of make it a bit more basic. They're written by science communicators.

So Linda, Chalker, Scott with How Plants Work. That's just a really handy book. It kinda boils it down to basics, but still really gets into the science. I also have Brian Cap Capons or Capons, Botany for Gardeners. So, again, taking the science and and distilling a little bit some of the technical nature out of it, but but still accurate.

I think it really helps, especially, like, before I'm about to teach class and I need to, like, brush up on things. And so I I probably read each of these books, multiple times, especially different chapters in here, kinda depending upon, like, what I'm gonna go teach. But I I do really like Linda's, book, and it it just kinda gets into, you know, what is photosynthesis? Transforming sunlight into sugar. Sounds basic, but it's complicated.

I think we're still even trying to figure out the the photosynthetic process. Like, what's really happening, inside that leaf from more like a physics standpoint? Like, it's kind of still a bit of a mystery that we're unraveling here. But it it's just best. I I think that these topics are very interesting, especially, if you're kinda if you are just kind of a plant geek, this will open your world up to a a what's going on inside of your plants.

That one is on at Linda Chalker Scott. One is on my wish list. Maybe it'll have to be moved up. I didn't get it because I'm like, oh, I know how plants work. But if you because there are some you you make a good point.

Like, there are some books that it's like little more basic, and then you read and you're like, I wish there was more to that. Like, I'm, you know, I knew that. Now I want it deeper, and I thought that book maybe was like that.

Mhmm.

Maybe I need to give it a shot. Do you have that one, Ken?

I think it's also on my wish list.

Okay. What? The other nice thing about that one and a few of her others. So she also has the Informed Gardener and the Informed Gardener Blooms Again. This so these books are just kind of taking things that I think gardeners, horticulturists, arborists, you know, whatever your world is in that horticulture world, it takes things that you're that you wanna know about.

It takes myths. It takes the the wise tales, and it it it either says, yes, these are backed by science, or no, this is, not accurate. So I think in all of those books, it it's things that you wanna know, And it it gets rid of some of the things that probably only people writing master's thesis or PhD dissertations really need to know, on that subject. But you don't need to know it to grow a tomato.

Yeah. I've got one more book in this category. So it's A History of the Garden and 50 Tools. That's by Bill Laws. So it takes different garden tools from shovels to weed killer to fertilizer to string line, garden catalogs, all that.

It kinda gives a little background history on all of them, and stuff. So it's kind of it's kind of interesting. So I'll just open up to the dibbler. So, you know, origin from Roman times, you know, what it's used for, all kind of stuff. So it's if that's your thing, if you feel like tools and gadgets and stuff, it may be maybe of interest to you.

That's really neat, Ken.

Now Yeah.

When you're done with that, I'll just get it because I wanna have it. Yeah.

Okay. So this is off subject a little bit. Do you mark up in your books? Do you guys, like, make notes and write in them?

Some.

Ken says no. Chris says some. Okay.

Just a little bit. It depends. If if I know I'm gonna definitely be using this for a presentation or something, I will either usually, I have to dog ear it or I I put some sort of a post a tab in there to mark the page, and then I'll highlight it. So I so yes. I will if I know if I find a particular tidbit to be that useful.

I do too. I will. Like, I can't I can't give people books I've read. They're a mess. They're a hot mess.

But, I'm not gonna mess.

In there too. Like, you know, like, need to do this. 3 PM, pick up kids. That's yeah. I you'll find those papers scattered around my house as well.

And sometimes in books. Yep.

Occasionally. So I don't have, like, a dedicated, bookmark, and I do not like dog earring. So when you say that, I'm like, please don't.

I don't.

You can write in a book, but you can't bend the pages, like don't bend. But so I don't have a dedicated bookmark. So occasionally, I'll find like a dollar in a book. I don't know where they come from. Like, probably, like, you know, left around by my kids and, like, finders keepers.

Right? But, that's a fun little bonus in addition to getting to read a book.

May I just usually make a mental note? And those frequently get lost. So

Yeah. How does that work?

Well, like, if I'm reading something, like, when I'm putting a presentation together, I'm like, oh, I need to either jot a note down on a piece of paper, make a mental note, and go and make the presentation. I'll have to flip through to find it, but I don't know. I just I can't bring myself to writing books. I don't know why. It's probably scarred from elementary school library or something.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Having to erase all those things that other people wrote so you wouldn't get in trouble. Yep. I do remember that.

Okay, guys. Okay.

Back to what we were talking about.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't have any more guidebooks. Chris, do you have any more guidebooks, or can we move on to other like, nonfictions?

I'll recommend our management of invasive plants and pests for Illinois. This is free online. You can yeah. This is like I reference this all the time for work when people are calling, asking about what to do about this or that invasive species.

So I just grabbed this one from us, Forest trees of Illinois. There you go.

Good one. Yeah.

Alright. No more, like, shameless plugs. Yeah. Or all the shameless plugs. It's fine.

Yeah. Yeah. So we're gonna get so rich from this. Yes.

Get our affiliate links set up.

Of course, we will. Yeah. Click on all those links because this is how we don't make money. Anyway.

Okay. So I, also as I was kinda gathering books, I do find that, like, you know, with Linda Chalk or Scott, Chris, you have, like, that particular author that you, you have found to be intriguing. And I also, I knew this, but then I was collecting books of that. Well, that's for sure. Doug Tallamy, I've mentioned him before.

And so, one of our colleagues, this is a spoiler alert, one of our colleagues does mention about his bringing nature home. No. Excuse me.

Nature's best hope.

Nature's best hope. Yes. And I have that one, but then I I grabbed bringing nature home. I've read bits and pieces of this. It's very easy to read.

You know, like I start and stop it, because, that's just kind of how he writes. It's conversational, and so you can, I feel like I can pick it up and just enjoy, enjoy the text? The one I'm currently reading is The Nature of Oaks, and holy crud, I don't want to like stop reading this because like, I mean, white oak is the state tree of Illinois, and everybody loves oaks, and you know, they're majestic, but like he walks this book walks through them by the season, and it's just a really and he starts in, hold on, October, which doesn't make any sense. Like, he just starts in the end of the year. But, like, why not January?

But it it works. And it's so, it's so beautiful how he just, like, observes his oak tree and describes what's happening, and then that does translate to other oaks with within the entire, you know, country. And so, I don't know, it's kind of like a love love note to to oaks, and I I'm here for that. So, there's insects in here too, Ken, don't worry. Look at that.

There's even pictures, because he's an entomologist.

Yeah. Yeah. There better be.

There's a lot of insects. But I think that might also be why I enjoy his books too, is because I'm not an entomologist, but I'm insect curious. And so, like he helps put it into terms that someone can enjoy reading about some, you know, not everybody, I'm sorry, Ken, if this is news to you, not everybody is like deeply passionate about insects. But they're critical components of our ecosystem and we know that as ecologists, as horticulturists, as gardeners, like, you know, so it's important to understand and appreciate. And the way he writes about them and the ecosystem as a whole, I just, it's enjoyable.

So, the nature of hopes and then bringing nature home and nature's best hope, and he's got another one. There you go. The living landscape.

There you go.

Yeah. That's about there on the bookshelf. He's also a dynamic speaker. If anybody, does get a chance to hear him, he's he's a very engaging dynamic, presenter, but his books are great.

Yep. I I recom highly recommend it. And it feels like they're almost like this progression. Bringing nature home was kind of setting up the problem, the issue. And then skip ahead sort of to this most recent one, nature's best hope.

That's kind of bringing a lot of solutions to the table. The living landscape kinda does too. So, Talami, being the scientist, he puts a lot of research and and things and talks about, you know, how how many insects it takes to raise a clutch of chickadees and things like that. How it's a lot. And how oak trees provide a a vast quantity of, caterpillars, lepidopter type insects, to help feed birds.

And then it has Rick Dark who was coauthored on this one who gives some I I believe where is he with? So he's a photographer. I I thought he was a I thought he had worked for, like, some Longwood or somewhere out east, but maybe that's incorrect. So but they do give, like, landscaping based solutions, you know, plant design combinations, things like that. So, yeah, bringing nature home, I think, is a great setup to the issue of of he uses birds because everyone loves birds, but ecological kind of catastrophe that's happening kind of all over the world.

And then these progressive, progression of books coming out gives a lot of solutions, I feel like. You know? Gives a little bit more hope, at least.

Yes. Alright. What else do you guys have? Do you have any so, Ken, do you have an author you follow? Are you a groupie with any particular author?

No. Not playing a lego.

That's okay.

He holds no allegiance.

I have another one, another author ish or theme that I I like, which is the indigenous, cultures. And I I appreciate and I I think it's jealousy, honestly, if I'm being honest, of the close knit connection that their cultures have with the ecosystem. Like I wish I had it. Like they understand, like plants and animals and they are not so far removed from the land as the culture that I am part of. And I want to be more informed I'm working towards it, but it's just in our, in my family unit, in our communities, it just isn't not built in.

And so it takes more work to, kind of find those connections or sometimes I feel a little bit like a outsider. Like I talk about things, like I'll post something like, you know, social media or whatnot, or I'll like talk about, you know, plant stuff, and people are like, yes. But did you see the football game? I mean, like I didn't. I was reading a book about oaks.

So anyways, so I appreciate this and there's podcasts that I follow too. And I just, I, like I said, I'm a little bit envious. And so there's this author, Robin Wall Kimmerer, Braiding Sweetgrass, one of my all time favorite books. Like I was sad, and this is a dense book. I was sad when it was over.

I ignored my children for hours on end while I was reading this. It was just like, I don't know if I can't, guys. Like, I'm so into this book. Because, like, it's Braiding Sweetgrass, Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge, and the Teaching of Plants. Like, she melds life, and she raises her kids and talks about, you know, rearing them to know this knowledge.

And then she she shares the knowledge that she has gained from her, you know, ancestors and then also the science of it, because she is a scientist by profession. And so it just, like, I love the way she she kind of, brings those things together. And then she also has, Gathering Moss. I also read this book and I, when I was reading this, I went off on a whole tangent to my sister about a book about moss and she is not as enthusiastic and she stopped me and said, that's weird. So for those that really like reading about books, like this is a really good book.

It was so fascinating. Her study of moss, her, like the relationship that moss has and the different types of moss, like maybe it's nerdy, but I don't care. I really enjoy her writing, her perspective. And on my wish list is a book, that she also wrote about the service berry, which is a true species I don't think we plant enough of. And so that, I think I'm just gonna buy it for myself, if we're being honest.

But, I love her. And then there's another author, Sean Sherman. He, is a chef. And so this is called the Sous Chef, Indigenous Kitchen, and he has a restaurant in Minneapolis that is on my bucket list to go to. But in here, more than the recipes, I don't cook very well.

I don't really enjoy cooking. I would rather be out gardening than cooking. So I haven't made any of these recipes. I intend to, but it just hasn't happened yet. But they, he gives, like narrative about how, gosh, I wish this would focus better.

Sorry about that there. Like narrative about the different foods that they, that he uses, like wild greens. Let's see. Talks about, using dandelion greens and purslane and plantain and other wild greens. Like, these are plants that we know, and a lot of times we get questions about us.

Like, this is a weed. What do I do with it? And I love this perspective and I aspire to do a better job of, like foraging and harvesting plants that, indigenous cultures know better than we do. So just love it. It's a beautiful book.

So, anyways, thanks for letting me share, and now everybody knows that I am a big nerd.

Brady and sweetgrass, that that is on my my short list of books as well. It's something I've really wanted to to get into.

I would, loan you mine, but, again, like, every page looks like just like markings all over. Notes. All my notes.

Yep. Nope. Nope. I'm gonna get

a fresh one. Something. You have to. Get a get a full pen too in case you wanna take notes.

Mhmm. I do have, if we switch gears here, I I do have a children's book that I really enjoyed reading to my kids. I don't have it with me. Couldn't find it. I know we have it somewhere because I I will not let them get rid of it.

But it's called Leaves on the Trees. This is by Tom Wiley. And I think the thing that I loved about this book is about fall. It's about leaves falling from the trees and these kids discovering these leaves. And what Tom does is he accurately draws and illustrates these leaves and describes the species of trees.

And so I'm like, I'm all about this, you know, because very often you'll get like a gardening kids book and it's just like, ah, the worm is in the apple. Hey. It's so cute. And meanwhile, in the real world, we're trying everything as we can to keep that worm out of the apple. It it seems like it's so, like, disconnected from what actually happens out in the the gardening world, and it tries to, like, make it cutesy and distorted.

I don't know. But this one is still cute. It's good illustrations, and it's scientifically accurate. I like it. Nothing wrong with worms in your apples.

As Ken would say, it's just more protein. But that's people don't buy those apples. Anyway, that's a tangent on wormy apples. But leaves on trees, I like that book. Accurate representation of trees for children.

Yeah. There's usually, like, a general, like, maple tree maple leaf looking Mhmm. Leaf for everything.

Here's your sugar maple. It's what you get syrup from, and it's a Norway maple or something. And I'm like, how dare you? You're you're teaching them incorrectly. Book.

Yep. Ken, do you have any kids' books?

I do. Before we get to kids' books, I got one more grown up book.

Yeah. I'm gonna go back to grown up books.

Oh, sorry. I jumped I jumped more.

Do you want me to do a kids' book, son? Yeah. And go back to my grown up book? Alright. So we got Bug Hotel, Clover Robin Book of Nature.

So this is like a foot book. So they've got a picture. So like the native bee hotels boxes we put up. You know, we got a little what's in there, what's going on. We talked about bees.

It's not actually honeybees they're talking about, which is, to me, exciting because that's all we ever seem to talk about. They've got a butterfly house, which, you know, they don't use, but that's okay. But it goes through, like, the life cycle, like beetle, dead logs, and then finding stuff in there. So just some of the different things. Snails.

So spiders. We could be on well, there's actually no true bugs in here. But and lady beetles, all kinds of stuff in there. Stuff Stuff that you can find, where you find them, why you find them there. We'll stick to the insects, and then we'll get it.

We've got colors of insects right here. Those are more of, like, like, real little kids, like learning your colors, but, you know, purple. You know, a tiger beetle and and just some of the different colors you find in insects. You know, black. Yeah.

Little beetle. That stuff is and actually, you know, again, accurate information and the the cutesy stuff, which which is fine, but I prefer. And then this one, I don't know how you can see if you're watching, but this is very well loved. Cover is barely on anymore. Bugs a to z.

So, again, you know, more little kids, but know your alphabet and the different types of insects. Let's start with that letter. So good way to like, and as narcissist bull fly. So just some random stuff that you wouldn't normally encounter too. As an oak tree grows, as far as plants go, this one, it it's not necessarily a whole lot about the tree itself.

So this is, you know, a young boy planted an acorn in, like, 17/75. And then just kinda progressing through the years, how it grows bigger, how things change. But this tree is kind of always in the in the background, you know, providing shade. You know, it gets really dry. It's it's roots are going deep into the ground to get water and talks about some of the animals that live in there.

And then do a spoiler alert. 225 years later, a lightning bolt hits it, and it gets cut down. And then but it goes to become firewood and furniture and mulch. And then at the end, there's a new tree growing. So kinda takes you through the the life cycle a little bit.

And then from seed to plant. So this is a little bit like the one you're talking about, Chris. But, you know, talking about different kinds of seeds. Again, kinda accurately depicted parts of the flower. Again, we're not talking just like we're getting into tubes and pollen grains and ovules and stamens and pistils and all that stuff.

But it's still, you know, geared towards kids. So you can you can skip over that if the kids are are too young to really get that, may have germination and and what all that is and then out comes your, you know, the crops are treated. So it's a good I think a good book for, you know, kinda taking you through that that growing process, you know, gets getting into pollination and and food production, and all that from plants.

That's okay.

In insects a to z, that's that's well worn from you. Right? Like, that's that's you.

Yeah. So it's it's like, hey, guys. We're gonna read this. You wanna read this. Right?

Come on, guys. Gather around. Dad, the 5th time tonight, please. We're we're we're tired. Let us go to sleep.

They just put themselves to bed.

See, we I've got a copy too that would take to, like, you know, with the cockroaches, hissing cockroaches, take to schools if I go to, like, a a pre k room. Little kids usually take that book, read it to them, and then we play with the cockroaches.

I just grabbed, classic for kids' book. I think this is a required reading. The Lorax, of course, by doctor Seuss. I don't I mean, I think everybody knows The Lorax. My kids actually really like Doctor Seuss, and they didn't naturally come by this.

I didn't force them to like the book. But I like that it tells a more like a moral story about taking care of, you know, the earth and plants and trees and how you can play a part in doing it and empowers kids, at least. Like my little guy, has really taken that to heart, and I'm really, you know, excited about that. I should actually I take that back both in different ways have really kind of embraced the caring of nature. And so, I like that The Lorax puts that in a fun fun story, where if you don't speak for the trees, who will?

So,

Instilling the land ethic at a young age.

Yeah. Yep. You wanna go quick back to, whatever adult books you have left, and then we can wrap

up. I jumped jumped the too far ahead there. Yeah.

That's alright.

What else you got? Go ahead, Ken. I'm I'm out.

We'll break it up. So last book I have and, is The Perfect Red. I think I've told you guys about this before. Amy Butler and Greenfield.

Yeah. Mhmm.

So I'll just I'll just read you off the back cover. In the 16th century, one of the world's most precious commodities was coquineal, legendary red dye treasured by the ancient Mexicans and sold in for the great Aztec marketplaces or attracted the attention of Spanish conquistadors. Shipped to Europe, the dye created just a sensation producing the brightest, strongest red in the world or the world had ever seen. Soon, Spain's cockanile monopoly was worth a fortune as the English, French, Dutch, and other Europeans joined the chase for cockanile, a chase that lasted for more than 3 centuries. A tale of pirates, explorers, alchemists, scientists, and spies unfolds.

Perfect ready folks with style and verve the this history of a grand obsession of intrigue, empire, and adventure in pursuit of the most desirable color on earth. So oncocaneal comes from a a scale insect that feeds on, a punty or padded cactus.

That sounds great.

A little scale. That's where they get the pigment from?

Yep. So the the best red color you can get. Because before then, reds were kind of, you know, they kind of washed out and and not very vibrant. But this produced a very vibrant, red that was highly in demand.

Is that what they used to dye the British military uniforms during the revolutionary war? The redcoats?

Mhmm.

Probably. Yeah. It's been a couple years since I read this book. Some of the details are getting fuzzy, but it wouldn't not surprise me if that was.

And didn't you say it's still in use in some of, like, the natural, like, cosmetic products and okay.

It it can be a cell. Carmine. This goes goes by a couple of different names. But I will say it's been several years since I looked. But I looked at a yogurt, a strawberry yogurt.

Believe out what kind of eggresses you have, you can find out for yourself. But their coloring was from carmine. Using cosmetics, sometimes lipstick. So if you wear red lipstick, you may be smearing dead insects all over your lips.

Sweet. I just grabbed one of my colored

To see what the incontinence are.

Because it's natural. We'll look up we'll look it up later, or we won't we'll just keep wearing it. Whatever. No. I want that's that is I think I'll put that on my list.

I'll finish up with my books. I kind of have 2 different things. I couldn't stop, so we should have put more like restrictions on how many books we were able, or allowed to choose. So sorry about that. We're learning here.

I'll group these. So I have 3 books here. They're of different subject matter, but they are again, kind of by theme, which is like the history or the cultural aspect of plants in our landscape, or in history. So kind of like your book, Ken. The one I'm reading, now each chapter of this book kind of tells a different story, and so this is one of those books where like, it's pretty thick, it's pretty dense, but you can break it up and read other things in between and it's fine.

So it's called, Urban Forests, A Natural History of Trees and People in the American Cityscape. And so, it talks about like people that have influenced different aspects of trees in our urban forest. So like one of, so there's like plant explorers and plant collectors and talking about how we've gotten some of our most, like favored cultivars and like the work that they did to develop, like Charles Sargent is one of the ones featured in here. There was also one dedicated to, well, like Frank Meyer and his plant exploration, you know, adventures in China. Here, there's one about the making of Washington's, cherry blossoms, like making that like the, you know, famous basically, you know, making Washington famous for the cherry blossoms and how it was, as much of a political act, you know, and determination as it was, logistics getting plants from, Japan to Washington, DC and all the inspections.

And, at one point, they had a whole shipment of like, I want to say like 300 trees come across the Pacific Ocean, land on our western shore. They were going to be shipped all the way across to Washington, DC, but they were infected. And so they had to burn all of them. Like it was like, as I was reading that, I thought like, man, like the dedication that it took to not just stop there. You know, so that's the logistics part of it, but then like the lobbying part of it, you know, I mean like, no, like see the vision.

Like these plants are beautiful and this will be an attraction, for our emerging, you know, capital and whatnot. So that one is really great. Along the same line, we have Hortus Curious. Just a fun book, it's called Discover the World's Most Weird and Wonderful Plants and Fungi. And it's broken up into different kinds of categories.

So like here's like the flowering menace, and you can just see that it's like, and then they're illustrations, and so they're not actual photos, but it just this is called the Darth Vader flower, is what they call it. There's, a little more inappropriate or more mature content, I guess is what I will say, and, we'll just let people type the book out. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah.

But they're really short. You know, another one where you can, go ahead and pick it up, read a couple of pages is like a a break, you know, for coffee table, and then move on with life. But kind of a fun book, and then also, 50 Plans That Changed the History or the course of history. So similar, not as there's not as much risque content in this one. There's a whole chapter in this one, which is fun, fun to look through.

So there's I like when plants are placed in, kind of in history or in in culture. So those those are those plants. And then finally, I have a non or I have a fiction novel. Do you guys have any fiction?

I have a I think mine's nonfiction, but it, yeah, it would be a novel. What's yours, Emily?

Okay. People have probably heard of this one and, have probably enjoyed, it already, but it's called well, where the crawdads sing. So popular very popular book a number of years ago. I randomly picked it up. I don't generally read fiction.

Honestly, like, my mom and I were at a, like, a supermarket, and it was on, like, an end. We were like, you grab one book, I'll grab one book, we'll buy them, and then we'll we'll switch. And luckily, I got Where the Crawdad Sings. And I love this book, and actually, Delia Owens has other books and she writes in the same kind of style, which is from like an ecologically, descriptive standpoint. Like this is in, North Carolina, like the out outer coast of North Carolina is where it is set, and the landscape, like, is a character in the book.

Like, it's so descriptive. It is beautifully written. So I find that I if I'm going to read and enjoy, you know, fiction, oftentimes, it has a compelling story, and the landscape is, just like vividly described and painted. And, like, I can actually, like, go to that place because of the way the author describes it. And so I really enjoy that, that aspect of the book.

And I guess I would welcome our listeners to share other books. I want to like fiction. I want to, but it's hard to find ones that are are like that descriptive. And so I am open to suggestions for

that. My my nonfiction one, which is is written like a novel is Devil in the White City.

Yeah. Yes.

That's it is historically accurate. It's based on letters and notes. So there's 2 stories happening.

Yeah.

It is about Frederick Law Olmstead, one of the kind of the considered the father of landscape architecture in the US, designing the Chicago World's Fair. And then at the other side

of

the book is a serial killer Mhmm. Which who was going around killing women, I believe, at that same time. Yeah. And it just goes into these two things happening simultaneously in in history. So, yeah, Devil in the White City.

It was a really good book.

It is.

But it as far as I know, I don't think the author takes many liberties with the the story. I think it's based on letters and notes from, like, investigators and the letters of Frederick Law Olmstead to all the other planners for the World's Fair. I I pretty sure that it's just based upon all of that.

We're gonna go Google it's historical nonfiction. K.

Okay. I'm out of books now, finally. You guys are have hit your for this year. We didn't say at the beginning that a, a listener recommended this topic, and I want to thank that person because I love it. It gave us a chance to first, like, dive into our own books and revisit.

At least I enjoyed that that, exercise, and then getting to know you guys and what you like reading. And my growing list or my, reading list just expanded, so thanks for that.

Well, yes. We were not the only ones though on this call. So, this the listener, they prompted a whole series of, let's call them on the spot interviews to our colleagues at a recent conference. And so what we're gonna do now is we are gonna play, when us can, with a microphone in hand, walking up to these people and asking them, what are they reading right now? And, you'll just enjoy the results of of this fun, thing.

My name is Kim Rohling and I'm a horticulture educator in, Franklin, Jackson, Perry, Randolph, and Williamson Counties. And my favorite book is The Vascular Flora,

by Robert Ballenbach. And it is an excellent book. It features 3,004 400 plant species that you can, key out. I use it a lot with my inquiries.

My name is Brodie Dunn. I work for Illinois Extension. I'm in the n r I'm in the NRE. My favorite book right now is, Circe by Madeline Miller Miller. I love that book.

It is unfortunate. It has nothing to do with any of my job or anything, but it's an awesome book written from a a really unique perspective, and I love that book. I don't know what else to say about it. What's it about? It's about Oh, it's about, a Greek goddess, who is exiled to an island, and she has to learn to be self sufficient.

Very cool book. I really highly recommend it.

My name is Candace Anderson. I am a state master gardener specialist. My favorite horticulture book is probably the Flower Farmer Handbook. That may not be the exact title. It's by Aaron Benziken, who has a flower farm in the Pacific Northwest.

Super good flower production book.

So that one is on my wish list as well along with other books, by her. She is a beautiful, like, online presence, and her photography is outstanding. And, a coffee table book. I got I think all of her books would be. So

Yeah. And and some of these are highly specialized books. So if if you're not into cut flower production, maybe a few of these are not gonna be for you, but some of these folks that we're talking to, like, they they're into whatever this field that they they're reading about.

Consider the source, I guess.

Yes. Consider the source. Mhmm.

I'm Tara Heath, and I'm a commercial ag educator for Fulton, Mason, Peoria, and Tazewell counties. My favorite garden book is that is The Perennial Pruning by Tracy De Sabato Oz that talks about how to prune your perennials in such a way that they don't become, you know, overgrown or controls our growth.

Tracy D Sabato Ast has written several very good perennial, books, books about perennial gardening. So along with Alan Armitage, you know, that that would be a good arsenal behind you if you had Alan Armitage and and Tracy DiSvaro Aust in your, lineup.

I need to check out that that pruning one.

Yep. I'm writing it down.

Nicole Flowers Kimberly, horticulture educator in Fulton, Mason, Peoria, Tasswell Counties. And my favorite garden gardening book is Nature's Best Hope by Doug Tallamy, just talking about how we can make conservation minded practices for our garden to have to provide ecological benefits to the community.

Lane Knoche, stormwater outreach associate, with Illinois Extension. Favorite gardening book is probably Planting in a Post Wild World by Thomas Rainer and Claudia West.

What? What do you mean?

Okay. So it's What do I not like about it? It puts forth a, a new perennial movement concept, that talks about gardening in layers, covering the ground with plants, replacing mulch with plants, letting the plants do the work, and all of the great benefits that go along with that.

Alright. So I did wanna mention this book as well. I I do have this one, and I have met Thomas Rainer who wrote this book, with Claudia West, had dinner with him many, many years ago when he was promoting this book. It's a very good book. I had a copy that was autographed by him.

I then gave that away at a Master Gardener door prize. I should've kept it. So I bought another one, and my kid put a sticker on the cover, which as I tear it, the cover's ripping. So the sticker is on there forever of this, Queen Amidala's Nabu starfighter thing. So, but it is a very good book.

Really playing into that that new romantic perennial movement, where you'll also see the same thing happening, up in, like, the Lurie garden, with Roy Diblick who who helped to grow the plants, and then Pete Oldeuf who designed it. So this idea of layered landscaping and and and and building plant communities and not having plants separated by, miles of mulch all around them, the little meatballs in the pasta bowl. So, it wants them to be all combined and form these communities. So I do highly recommend it. And I also accidentally met Claudia West at a trade show.

No. That's on my wish list. But it like you said, it goes into that, like there's kind of like a category of books or of, like, design books now on, like like naturalism or, like, new naturalism. A former college classmate of mine wrote one. His pictures are beautiful as well.

Just are showing and demonstrating that you can do sort of like naturalistic landscapes in a very intentional and designed and, like, manicured way. And it it looks stunning, but it looks totally, like, totally natural, totally unmanicured with a lot of intentional decisions being made. So

So new goal. I use a lot of mulch, trying to use less, but that means you gotta buy more plants. So

yeah. Okay.

I can do that. It will take me a little longer. Budget constraints, things like that. Yeah.

Hi. I'm Nancy Kreeft. I'm a horticulture educator in the Cook County area, and this book comes in handy. It's Plants of the Chicago region, so mainly pertaining to, collar counties of Cook County, but a great resource for you. I love this book because it's my go to for plant resources.

If I'm unsure if a plant is, local to this region, this this will, tell me if they found it. So there this one came out in 94, but there is a newer addition, flora of the Chicago region. So highly suggest it if you're a native enthusiast, and it will come in handy when you're selecting plants for your yard.

I'm Sibu Karr. I serve as the extension and program leader for, our extensions in natural resource and environment and energy program. Favorite book. So I like Aldo Leopold because he talk about the, you know, living with the nature and the, value of the land and how to kind of, you know, live in harmony with the nature, not to describe, rather kind of we work together and to conserve and to, maintain the nature around us to have a better living.

Alright. So doctor Carr did email us later and said, I am so sorry. I did not mention the name of the book, which is Sand County Almanac by Aldo Leopold. And I I totally feel for doctor Carr, especially, you know, when Ken walks up, the microphone shoves it in your face. I got a camera on, say, tell us your favorite book.

We were very demanding. So, but Sand County Almanac is, oh, sorry. Let me back up. Aldo Leopold is probably considered the the the bringer of the modern conservation movement, with his book, the Sand County Almanac. And that is one that I have read multiple times.

I'll often pick it up maybe once a year. I won't read the whole thing, typically, but I'll usually read a few chapters. It is another one of those those books, you know, written back when people really knew how to write. And, I just I I find it very energizing to read that, especially if I have to write something. So, I like to read it for kind of a little bit of inspiration for if I have writer's block.

Yeah. It's a it's, you know, like a foundational text. I think anybody could read it. Anybody, like, in in the industry or out of it. We, you know, read it in grad school, I believe is where we first were at least where I was first, introduced to it and, yeah, revisit it from time to time.

To me, it's a nice, like, compliment or, like, it pairs well with, Rachel Carson's Silent Spring. Like hers is a little more like doom and gloom with good reason to be. His is a little more uplifting and more, centered on being, out in nature, being connected to it, managing it so that we are preserving these balance, you know, the relationship between, the land and the use of it and then recreation and, goes into, you know, hunting and some practices that are hard for some folks to appreciate, does it in a in a really nice storytelling kind of way.

And it it goes on a journey. I mean, the in the beginning of his career, he was out west eradicating wolves. And Yeah. You know, he thought that was the right thing to do. And then started you know, he goes into, in his essays, like, and then we started seeing the mountainsides, denuded a vegetation and erosion and all these things as the herbivores then were able to take over.

So, and then he he's actually from around here. So, Burlington, Iowa. So it's not far from me at least or or Emily. Maybe a little bit more of a drive for Ken. But so, yeah, he's he's from this area originally.

Well, the first 10 years, he lived in Burlington, and then he moved to Wisconsin. And so those are kind of the two landscapes that, helped shaped him. Highly recommend.

As you said, foundational text.

Yeah. Dennis Bowman, digital ag specialist, University of Illinois Extension, Red Oak Green Garden, and flowering plants of Illinois. Native plants, and you're doing spring wildflowers. It's the one book I found I can find things in.

Jennifer Fishburne, University of Illinois Extension in Springfield area covering Logan, Menard, and Sagman Counties. My favorite children's book is Diary of a Worm. The reason I like this book is because it gives the a little bit about the life cycle, a little information about how worms are in the soil to kids in an entertaining way.

Hey, everybody. Jamie Viebach, horticulture educator here from Kane, Kendall, DuPage counties, and I brought with me one of my favorite books today, The Gardener's Guide to Prairie Plants by Neil Deebel and Hilary Cox. I really like this book just because of the sheer amount of data that's inside. So we've got pretty pictures of what the flower looks like but also what the plant looks like when it's little, when it's hard to identify, what the seed heads look like, all that kind of great stuff. In addition you've got what the root types are, where it's native to, and just so much other information.

So is it gonna play nicely in your garden? So if you're looking to take your native garden to the next level highly highly recommend The Gardener's Guide to Prairie Plants by Neil Deebel and Hilary Cox.

Hey. This is Chris Leuking. I'm the horticulture educator serving Bond, Clinton, Jefferson, Marion, and Washington Counties. And today, I brought one of my favorite books for cool seed cut flowers. Right now is the time in fall to be planting your cool flowers, for spring blooms.

And why I love this book is because there's a lot of information in here on growing times, when to plant, your spacings on when to plant, if you should net them for support, things like that. It has colorful images on it and but it gives you kinda details on this one from Lisa Mason Ziegler. So you have more of the information about each of those flowers, their growing, concerns if they need pinched, if they need how you can care for them, when do you harvest them. So this one has a lot of, great information. It also talks about the different groups.

So even if you're gonna pick, say, this one is a snapdragon, there's lots of different growing times and bloom times, so depending on the group that you pick. So this gives a lot of information. It also talks about hardy, warm annuals also. So it's gonna give you a lot of information. I love this one, it gives a lot of detail and it makes it a little more successful, especially if you're just starting out on, when you should harvest, what your proper technique is once you harvest, and what stage you should harvest at.

So love this one by Lisa, Mason Ziegler, and it's great for your cut flowers. And today, I brought one about propagation for house plants. This is by, Hilton Carter, and he's a social media, lots of information. What I love about his is that it's not only for the beginners that's starting to propagate, but it also gives you a lot of advanced information. It has step by step pictures on what you're wanting to do.

This one is air layering if it's leaf tip cutting, but it gives you lots of beautiful detail. It tells you what information that you need for how to clip it, where to clip it, and then how to be successful with it. It also gives you information on if you're wanting to make a living wall, which is very popular right now, or if you're wanting to encourage others to make propagations. It's kinda showing you you can use it in water or you can do in moss or soil techniques. This is a great one.

One of my favorites to use. Hopefully, you guys will enjoy it as well. Thanks.

My name is Eliza Pesaro. I'm a horticulture educator in unit 22. So I serve Madison, Monroe, and St. Clair counties. I'm in the St.

Louis area, but on the Illinois side, my 2 books that I have selected to share with you all today are Breeding Sweet Grass by Robin Wall Kimmer and The Seed Keeper by Diane Wilson. These are both books by indigenous women. They're indigenous authors, and they're both, very focused on botany, horticulture, things like that. So in Braiding Sweetgrass, you've probably heard about this book. It's kind of a collection of essays on the author's interactions with nature and kind of reflections on her spiritual relationship with nature through her own heritage.

And there's a lot of environmental justice in it as well. Robin Wall Kimmer is the director of the Center of Native Peoples and the Environment at State University of New York College of Environmental Science and Forestry. She's a Potawatomi botanist and author. I really like her book because her writing is awesome. She's extremely poetic, and so it flows really well and you're learning a lot, but you also just enjoy hearing or reading what she's saying.

I will say Braiding Sweetgrass is a pretty long book. So I ended up listening to mine and it's 17 hours long. So remember, if you're buying it for someone, ebook, audiobook or physical book, it's just a little bit longer, but you can keep it in chunks since it's a series of essays. Then for my second book, I chose The Sea Keeper by Diane Wilson. This book is fiction, so it's not necessarily about the author's life, but it follows a couple of generations of a Dakota family in Minnesota, and it kind of centers on Dakota woman and how she is trying to preserve her cultural heritage through seeds.

So it follows her through childhood. And as she grows older, kind of the different changes that happen in her life, things that happen that are tough. And it ends up where she, not to spoil too much, but she marries someone who is a farmer and then kind of learns about how the farming wildlife, complements, but also conflicts a little bit with her own heritage. The author is, also an environmental activist, so there's a lot of environmental activism in this book as well. Yeah.

So those are my 2 recommendations. I would say get them for someone as a book. The covers are really beautiful or listening to them is really great too.

The one that that Jamie had. I I don't I haven't read that one, but the fact that it gives multiple pictures of each plant. Usually a lot of those guys just a picture. Maybe 2 if you're lucky, but, yeah, the fact that it's got multiple pictures at different stages is intriguing.

Yeah. After working on the pollinator website, we all know that takes a lot of work to get all of those pictures together of that one species.

Well, and it's so nice, like as a resource, if you are trying to cultivate a native landscape that is not as organized as like a, you know, plants in straight lines or, you know, mass plantings. Because when they emerge in the spring or early summer, Like, you don't wanna be mistaking your plants as weeds and pulling them all out. Like, you like, you know, most people are trying to stay up on the weeding. But

I've never done that. I don't know what you're talking about.

I don't know if I ever met because they're gone.

That's right. Take

them all out.

You don't know. But that one plant I thought I planted, there isn't there anymore. So

It didn't it didn't make it through the winter, I guess. But no. And they all look very similar. You know? There's some of them are very slow to start too, like those warm season, plants.

So you have to have some patience and if you there's a lot of opportunity to mistake them for weeds, I guess. Yep. Yeah. The book by Lisa Mason Ziegler, The Cut Flower, she's a well known author, has a lot of really good information about cut flower gardening, like Chris said. She does, Chris made the made a comment about it having warm season crops in there.

She specializes, Lisa Mason Ziegler, specializes in cool flowers, with those plants that you can grow in like the cooler, like the, shoulder seasons, or you can get started really early in the spring and like, like those cooler temperatures. Or if you're farther north, you know, your season is a little cooler longer. And so, kind of an interesting perspective. A lot of times we see like warm season flowers and plants written about and emphasized, but there's a lot of growth opportunity, a lot of gardening opportunities in the shoulder seasons and just using the right plants, be it vegetables or edibles or cut flowers. So something to look in look into if you're interested in kind of expanding your growing season for, cut flowers.

Well, that was a lot of book recommendations, I should say. Oh my gosh. You know, we we said we didn't read much at the very beginning of the show, but I think we might have proved the opposite. We have lots of this was a long podcast, everyone. What are we gonna do?

I guess, folks, you're just gonna have to read all of these books, after listening to this podcast because I now have a my list is way way too big.

Yeah. I am excited to start finding some time to read, you know, like, go in a little bit of hibernation here in this winter, cozy up with a book and some hot cocoa and a blanket and read about cockanelle scale

and Dye my scarf red.

And mosquitoes. These are 2 Yes. 2 books I did not expect to, put on my wish list. But

Yep. Now Thank

you, guys. Listeners, viewers, you've seen a a a a a look into our lives of what we like to read. So hope that wasn't too much for you.

Please come back next week.

Yeah. Please. We're gonna talk about other things. Promise. Well, the Good Growing Podcast is a production of University of Illinois Extension edited this week by me, Chris Enra.

Hey. A special thank you to Emily. Thanks for coming by and sharing all the books that, you have read, are reading, and now will read, with us today.

Oh, it's my pleasure. I super appreciate the invitation, the suggestion. I am always here for, book recommendations, and so thank you guys.

And a special thanks also, Ken. Thank you, as always, once again, and always forever and after, hanging out with me every single week to chat about books this time that we read. Thank you, Ken.

Yes. Thank you, Emily and and you, Chris. And I'd say if listeners have recommendations too, feel free to send those to them. Like Emily mentioned, this was this whole podcast was because somebody recommended it. So we do listen to you and and try to do what you ask.

And let's do this again next week.

Oh, we shall do this again next week. The poinsettia trials. Ken and I visited them, and we have got a tale to tell about this most famous plant. We'll talk to you all about poinsettias next week. So listeners, thank you for doing what you do best, and that is listening.

Or if you're watching this on YouTube watching, and as always, keep on growing.

How long was that?

Was that 2 hours?

No. I think it's 7 when you got on. Probably push an hour and a half. Hour 20.

We we chatted a little bit, but ah, sorry, listeners.

Yikes. Yikes. Well, I mean, it's the holidays, so I'll have some time off to listen to things.

Time and like, what is that? Time and a half?

Just Double time. That's right.

Squeaky voices.

Oh, really? Like books, I guess.

We knew that. We knew that going in.

We do it. Mhmm.

I like long walks on the beach and puppies in baskets.

Whiskers on kittens?

Yes. Warm woolen mittens. Brown paper packages tied up with string. Just a just a couple of my favorite things. Is that it?

Is that all we need?

No. We need who are you?

Oh, hi. I'm Sarah Vogel. I'm the horticulture educator in unit 17.

Which is?

Oh, Macon Piatt and DeWitt counties.

What is your favorite book? Gardening, horticulture related book, and wine.

I didn't have one chosen. Sorry. I just learned to read last week. I hope this is live. It is.

We're live streaming.

This will be the bluebird.