Ep. 271 From forest to ballpark: The trees behind baseball bats | #GoodGrowing

Chris Enroth: 00:00

Alright. Well Swihart winding up to take it off. Throws a a a good old watermelon right there. Oh, Johnson with a swing and a miss. Wow.

Chris Enroth: 00:11

Boy, that is a... That's quite that's quite a swing. He he put a lot of zest into that one. Yes. He did.

Chris Enroth: 00:16

Alright. Swihart back with the ball back up on the mound, comes on up. There's the pitch. Oh, she put some mustard on that one. But, oh, as Johnson takes a swing.

Chris Enroth: 00:25

It is high up into the left field. It's up. It's going. It's going. It's gone.

Chris Enroth: 00:33

Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris Enroth, horticulture educator with University of Illinois Extension coming at you from Macomb, Illinois, and we have got a great show for you today. Bats! Not the kind of fly, the kind that we hit baseballs with. We're gonna be chatting about baseball bats today.

Chris Enroth: 00:52

Where do they come from? How are they made? And, you know, probably some of the other interesting things about them from like a plant perspective. And you know I'm not doing this by myself. I'm joined as always every single week by horticulture educator Ken Johnson in Jacksonville.

Chris Enroth: 01:08

Hey, Ken.

Ken Johnson: 01:08

Hello, Chris. Do you play baseball growing up?

Chris Enroth: 01:12

No. I did not. I did not play baseball. I was a soccer player, so that's probably why I like grass so much. How about you, Ken?

Chris Enroth: 01:27

Were you a baseball player?

Ken Johnson: 01:29

I played baseball. We'll put it that way. Not, not particularly successfully, but yes.

Chris Enroth: 01:35

Well, all right. Well, then I think we're going to need some help then. We are joined as always every single week also by horticulture educator Emily Swihart in Milan, Illinois. Emily, help. Did you play baseball, softball as a kid?

Emily Swihart: 01:53

Hi, Chris. Hi, Ken. And, yeah, I played recreationally. I would have loved to play a lot more, though. I really love this game.

Emily Swihart: 02:00

And so, yeah, I'm happy to help. I'll do what I can. It wasn't baseball. I wasn't allowed to play baseball. But now, honestly, like, girls are in baseball, and I love it.

Emily Swihart: 02:11

I am... This is a tangent out of the gate, but there's a women's professional baseball league that just started this year, played in Springfield, went to one of the games. Oh my gosh. It was amazing. So, no, I didn't get to play.

Emily Swihart: 02:24

I played softball, played with my brother and his friends, you know, a little bit of baseball here and there, but, just really love the game. Excited to be talking about bats because it's a, I mean, it's a big part of the game. We love to see a home run. Ken, way to go with the, the home run out of the gate.

Chris Enroth: 02:40

Yeah, Ken, you had a really good swing, but, but Emily also had a really great pitch. I think if she hadn't thrown that fastball like that, I don't know if you would have had that exit velocity to get out of the park like you did. So great job, both of yous.

Ken Johnson: 02:54

Thank you. Was my, my one and only home run.

Chris Enroth: 02:58

It's been recorded too, so it will go down in history.

Emily Swihart: 03:02

It was beautiful. Beautiful. Happy to give it up to get you around those spaces.

Chris Enroth: 03:09

Well, should we talk, Emily, the inspiration behind this episode also? Why are we talking about bats?

Emily Swihart: 03:23

Yeah. So a couple of things. Like, I brought this to you guys for a little while. You know, a while ago, I said, like, we should do kind of a deep dive on baseball bats. First, I just love the game, and so it's a big part of my life.

Emily Swihart: 03:35

Like, I love watching it. My kid plays it. Spend a lot of time on the ball field. And then, you know, we got the World Series coming up. We're, you know, getting really close to that.

Emily Swihart: 03:46

And so I think it's just like it's a national... It's America's national pastime. Even if you're not a baseball fan, like it's on the TV now. So people are more engaged. And so I thought the timing was good.

Emily Swihart: 03:56

But, really what sealed the deal for me and why I was so pushy about it with you guys is because a couple of years ago, on a family vacation, the boys, we went to the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Highly recommend. It is amazing. But we hit Louisville, Kentucky on the way back, and we stopped by the Louisville Slugger, Bat Factory and Museum. And I have told every single person who I've had the opportunity to share this with that even if you're not a baseball fan, it is an amazing tour.

Emily Swihart: 04:28

It is an amazing just like site to go to. They have a really, they kind of walk you through how bats are made, have a really neat museum with memorabilia. You can have an experience actually holding some game played baseball bats by some of the biggest names in the game including Babe Ruth. Got to hold his bat like you you can't swing it. You know, it's protected.

Emily Swihart: 04:51

There's some rules around it, but just like being that close to like some of the the really, you know, like, the the biggest names in baseball in American culture. I also held Ozzy Smith's bat. If anybody's curious, you get two of them and those are my choices and so, probably would, do it again because I love those guys. But that's what inspired this. Like, just like seeing like how we, how, you know, bats go from a tree in the forest to, you know, being swung at at the plate of the biggest games was really cool and I'll I will share pictures.

Emily Swihart: 05:26

So, if people are listening and you traditionally listen, maybe this is a a week that you go and watch on YouTube so that you can see some of those pictures. I'll show them kind of from the factory as many as I can. Because it was just really really really neat. So, thanks for doing this.

Chris Enroth: 05:46

So, it's been a fun learning experience. You know, I never had put much thought into baseball bats and the wood that they were made of. And I mean, I, like I said, I didn't really play as a kid. But both of my sisters, they played softball and they're older than me and they, they used a wooden bats way back when, and they were transitioning kind of to metal bats, I think at that point in time, but, we always had wooden bats in our, like our bin in the garage of, of, of different sporting items. So, yeah, I, I've been, I've swung wooden bats.

Chris Enroth: 06:25

I've swung metal bats. I definitely as a, as a young child, it was easier to swing those metal bats. But it didn't start as metal. How, how, where did the bat even come from? Like, what's, what's the history Swihart: behind this whole baseball and baseball bat?

Emily Swihart: 06:45

Yeah. So, also disclaimer because I know that we've got some, like, mega baseball fans listening. I'm I'm sure of it. Like, is the briefest overview of the game of baseball in the history of baseball. So they were just, like, really condensing, Gosh, almost a hundred and seventy years into, you know, a very brief history.

Emily Swihart: 07:07

But so baseball kinda came, and started gaining popularity in the mid, eighteen hundreds. Originally, it was, played in Europe. This is... I I had found this and it wasn't played with a bat at all, and it wasn't even a men's game. So the idea or the kind of the inspiration for baseball did come from Europe's version at the time of baseball where you would hit the ball with your hand.

Emily Swihart: 07:33

Women and girls would play, and you would hit the ball. So you can imagine it was just a a slower game. It was, you know, the the ball wasn't traveling as far. It wasn't as hard of a ball that we were hitting. You know, it it resembles very little probably of of the game that we know now as baseball.

Emily Swihart: 07:52

But, when it came to America and and even in Europe a little bit, eventually, the bat was introduced. And at that time, then the game kinda shifted from being, a a female primarily, you know, focused sport, you know, more demure and more kind of friendly game to having a lot more power, being a lot faster, being just a bigger game, being played at a bigger scale when a bat was introduced. And so, it kinda started in the the mid, you know, eighteen hundreds, like eighteen eighteen forty to 1850. And at the time, it was a BYOB situation. Like, ball players were bringing their own bats to the field.

Emily Swihart: 08:36

So what that meant, you know, like, the organization of baseball was still forming. And so it was just kind of, the wild west of what was being brought to the ball field to play with. And so just fascinating. I was reading, you know, players were showing up with literal tree limbs, to play with. Axe handles were were popular and being fashioned into some sort of, like, battering ram, you know, like, at the, you know, at at the start, that's kind of what a bat was.

Emily Swihart: 09:07

It was just something to hit a ball with. And so axe handles were popular. Wagon tongues, were some of the early objects that sought to be repurposed into bats. And so we were transitioning from wagons to motorized vehicles. And so wagon tongues were kind of available to be refashioned into baseball bats and so were pretty popular.

Emily Swihart: 09:33

They also were ideal because they were just a really hard, like strong wood material. And so it was kind of a hot mess at the beginning. Very primitive, I guess I should say instead of a hot mess. It was just primitive, it was emerging. The bat emerged manufacturing of baseball bats emerges.

Emily Swihart: 09:59

The story goes in 1884, there was a player from Louisville, named Pete, Browning. He broke his bat during the game. So, you know, it was common. The bats would be broken, but because you had to bring your own, there wasn't like a reserve. You didn't have multiple bats ready to go.

Emily Swihart: 10:19

So he broke his bat during a game. A kid at the the ball field offered to take him back home to his dad's woodworking shop and use the lathe there and form a new bat for him for use in the next day's game. And so they did that, and, and Growing hit three hits in that following game, which gets attention from everybody. You know, someone's having success as as we do, we're curious about what contributed to that. And that kind of kicked off the era of manufacturing bats for use in ball games.

Emily Swihart: 10:56

The the father and son who initially laid that first baseball bat formed the company the Hillrich Bradsby Company which is the owner of the Louisville Slugger Museum and Factory today. So, they still produce. I think I was reading on their website. It's a fifth generation owned company and so that began like the era of producing baseball bats and and then, just because of the success of it and could probably the ease of having somebody else manufacture a baseball bat for you. More and more players went to having purchased bats instead of bringing their own.

Emily Swihart: 11:35

So 1884 is when it all kind of kicked off and now it's become this huge industry.

Chris Enroth: 11:45

That is a great, great origin story. I love that. And the fact that it is still the founding bat lathe woodworker, that family is still involved to this day. Just a kid that took a guy home and was like, Hey, let's use some of my dad's tools and make you a bat. So cool.

Emily Swihart: 12:06

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I also like, you know, in thinking that, and I'll put a picture in here too, because it still, it still says that when you enter into the factory, it still has, the Hillridge Bradsby name, you know, like, there. Also, you gotta think, like, of the time, like, baseball probably wasn't as popular as as well known. Like, I kind of think of it kind of, like, almost like the women's league right now.

Emily Swihart: 12:30

Like, was talking to some friends about going and they didn't even know that there was a now a women's professional baseball league. It was just beginning to, be a thing. Right? We didn't... It was, you know, it just wasn't part of popular culture at that time.

Emily Swihart: 12:44

And so to have a young boy kind of... He... I did read accounts where he snuck away to go to the game. And so just like it all... Yeah.

Emily Swihart: 12:53

I I... It's... You're right, Chris. It's a great origin story. I love...

Emily Swihart: 12:56

I hope it's true. I'm gonna believe it's true. I love... Going to love it.

Chris Enroth: 13:04

We know at all the species of wood used in the beginning? Is that a common knowledge thing? What species were people picking?

Emily Swihart: 13:16

Yeah. Because it was a BYOB, bring your own bat, to the ball field, it was what people could find and get their hands on. And so I did find a couple of different lists and I've compiled them here. And I am sure there's other species, that are not on this list. We talked about one earlier, and I'll I'll let you guys drop it.

Emily Swihart: 13:36

That we think would make an excellent baseball bat. But by accounts from what I've read, so sycamore, cherry, spruce, chestnut, poplar, basswood, willow, maple, ash, birch, and pine were the list of species that I had, come across. And I guess we should also insert here that these are all just common names. Almost everything we found were written by baseball people, not horticulturists. And so it was all just common names.

Emily Swihart: 14:07

And so do we know which ash? You know, white or green probably, you know, was what was used. And so, yeah, keep that just... That's a grain of salt. But which one did we mention beforehand?

Emily Swihart: 14:23

Let's drop that. I I really am curious. I I am... I kinda wanna lathe one.

Chris Enroth: 14:28

But you're go What's... What what

Emily Swihart: 14:30

Which one?

Chris Enroth: 14:30

What wood would you choose if you were lathing your own baseball bat?

Ken Johnson: 14:34

I don't know if I'd choose this one, you know, you're about like Osage orange being used as like fence posts and stuff. Wondering if somebody just had one of those sitting around. But I'd imagine that'd be pretty heavy and maybe not ideal for trying to swing.

Chris Enroth: 14:50

Boy, you'd make contact. Oh my gosh, that would be quite the hit, I bet. And, and your fingers would probably feel it as well because Osage Orange, we know that is like, like steel, like it is such a dense wood. And I've moved a few smaller trees of Osage orange around and they are heavy. Yes.

Emily Swihart: 15:14

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that would have been so like we talked about metal bats. So today primarily focusing on major league baseball, like the major league baseball regulations and the bats used for that. Of course, we know that in like minor leagues and in like little league and USA and U triple SA, like all those different leagues that are available that are not, at the the major leagues do have different bat regulations and can use different bats and make metal bats are allowed in some of those leagues.

Emily Swihart: 15:43

But yeah, Osage Orange might be the only metal, like quote unquote, close to metal bat you could use in the MLB.

Chris Enroth: 15:52

I'd love to see it. Yeah. Yeah. We could dive into metal bats, but, but that's a different show because you know, that's what our kids use when they're out on the field. And, but, but yeah, different show, but a lot of the reading goes and compares wooden bats to metal bats, which I think it is very interesting to see the, how tightly they have to sort of manage the metal bat because it, it can be sometimes more dangerous, is, that so they have to really regulate that for, for when young children are playing that game.

Emily Swihart: 16:34

Yeah. Well, and that goes to, I mean, so we can get back to like wooden bats too, but like the goal is still, well, it is today. Right? It kinda, yeah, like, you know, contact, like exit VLO, right? Like getting that ball off that bat as fast as you can, getting that pop, right?

Emily Swihart: 16:55

That's kind of how you'll hear it described. And so, you want to essentially like turn that ball around in direction and send it in the other way. And so as the faster you can have that ball coming off the bat, the farther it's gonna go. And the harder the bat is and and the better that it does in taking energy and converting it, you know, into the ball and sending it in the other direction, the farther it's gonna go. And so that's like the objective of any bat manufacturer, whether it's made out of metal or out of wood.

Emily Swihart: 17:23

And we can get back to talking about wood bats, but because that really influenced a lot of the species that are being used today and the manufacturing process. But yes, you're right, Chris. Metal bats are scary, honestly. Like some of the technologies now are, it's pretty incredible And what they can

Chris Enroth: 17:42

the kind of the comparisons of the wood bat versus the metal bat, they were showing that metal bats can almost return 100% of that kinetic energy right back. Then of course you add in the power of the swing and all that too, you know? So it's, they're, they're very well designed. Yeah. Yeah.

Emily Swihart: 18:00

That's incredible. Can I go back to something I hinted at just real quick here where I said, like, that now the objective of the game is to hit the ball as far as you can? Because that wasn't always the case either. There was a time in baseball history when it was first starting that the objective was not necessarily to hit the ball as far as you possibly could. And that had to do with this.

Emily Swihart: 18:21

I I... Again, we're just diving in just a little bit here dipping our toes, and I I actually wanted to look more into this. But the the make of the ball changed, so that that can be achieved. Initially, from my understanding, so in some of the rings, it was called the dead ball error... Era, excuse me, dead ball era of baseball, which is that the ball would not, no matter how hard you hit it, no matter like how, dense the bat was or how how, solid a contact was made, it would not travel very far because of the way the ball was manufactured.

Emily Swihart: 19:02

And so the interior of the ball, I think was made out of, let's see, rubber only. And then they added rubber with coated with cork, I believe is what I read. If I'm wrong, I'm super sorry, but they essentially changed the interior of the ball so that when you would hit the ball during that dead ball era, it would not travel very far. And so they focused more on bunting and putting the ball in play and relied on their ability to get to the next base versus just knocking the ball out of the ballpark. When the ball changed then, well, I guess I should say too, like even square bats, Like square and like flat bats were being used to achieve like bunting and to have more control.

Emily Swihart: 19:44

They were kind of playing around with that shape of a bat instead of the round bats that we know today. And heavy, I guess. Like, the bats were incredibly heavy. We can talk about weight as we go along here, but they were much heavier than they are, today. So, like, up to, 40 ounces, 40, 50 ounces is what I was reading, whereas today, bats are more in the, like, 30 to 34 ounce range.

Emily Swihart: 20:09

So then it it like it shifted. So that era was prior to 1920 approximately. So when it shifted and then they called it the live ball era. And so this is about like 1920 to 1940 when, that ball changed. And so this is when, like, the kind of the traditional shape of the bat that we know today emerged.

Emily Swihart: 20:28

And so it was like a barrel bat, had a taper to it, was still pretty heavy because they were still trying to figure out the materials, but they had, like, larger grips also. But there was there was just more... You would look at it and go, that's a baseball bat. Like, would look, you know, at those. But throughout that era too, then they started really realizing that they could manipulate the bat to be more comfortable, to be more efficient when you hit the ball.

Emily Swihart: 20:58

Babe Ruth was a, kind of in that time frame, like an early adopter of these newer bats, of this newer, faster, like, stronger, more aggressive style of baseball. And it was interesting. I was reading... You wanna talk about some fun stories. So apparently, Ty Cobbs was more in the era of the dead ball.

Emily Swihart: 21:16

They they they spanned it, but he was, like, real upset initially, at, roots like showmanship and, like, adopting kind of that more aggressive, baseball style. He came around to it, but I was... I thought, man, there's always resistance. We we don't know something. It was just fun to...

Emily Swihart: 21:35

Even the greats will resist change. But so, that, like, nineteen twenties to nineteen forties, like, really changed. There was a lot of progress made in baseball bats. Then, we kinda entered what they called the bat speed era from 1940 to 09/2000 is kinda the the range that I saw where they really kinda honed in on bat manufacturing, bat shape, wood strength, and and the con... The couple of species emerged as being favorites.

Ken Johnson: 22:06

So since we're getting down to wood bats here, you you mentioned, Chris, a lot of regulations around metal bats. But if you look at the regulations from Israeli baseball for baseball bats, the wooden bats, it's just a bat shall be a smooth round stick, no more than 2.61 inches in diameter at the thickest part and no more than 42 inches in length. The bat shall be one piece of solid wood. It's basically the the regulation on that. So not a not a whole lot of rules when it comes to wooden bats, when it comes to major leagues.

Ken Johnson: 22:40

And there's some stuff for the cups at the end, and you can't have, foreign subs since above 18 inches and stuff. But, basically, it's no more than 42 inches long and 2.61 inches wide. Yep. Other than that, you're good.

Emily Swihart: 22:58

Yeah. That foreign substance usually, like, it's called, like, the, like, pine tar. There was, a game. It was, like, I think I was recalling it was called, like, the pine tar game where that was... That rule was, like, really challenged in that there was...

Emily Swihart: 23:11

Gosh. I can't remember now the details of it, but a home run was hit, and it changed the outcome of the game. And so then it was appealed, and it was determined that... And this might still stand. I guess I don't know.

Emily Swihart: 23:21

I didn't I didn't go much farther into this, but essentially it was if that substance is on, a bat above 18 inches, it has to be caught before the play. You know, because they went back actually and ruled that the home run counted because it was not caught in advance of it being hit. And so it kinda puts, like, the onerous on the other team to catch and watch.

Ken Johnson: 23:46

George Brett.

Emily Swihart: 23:47

There you go. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Also sidebar pine tar is gross.

Emily Swihart: 23:51

My kid like got real excited about it once and I'm like this is gross. It makes a mess. As we all know whoever has interacted with pine trees and done any pruning it is a mess.

Chris Enroth: 24:05

Sticks around. Yes.

Emily Swihart: 24:07

It does. Yeah. Oh. That that brought back some bad memories there. So let's move on.

Emily Swihart: 24:13

Cleaning up pine tar. So, Ken, you also had mentioned, well, so so you said that there's like some limitations. Let's get into some of the more most popular species of today because there are some guidelines that are related to the species of the bats that we're using today because of different properties. And so I guess do you guys want I've I've talked a lot but I get really excited about this topic. Do you want me to go through some of the species or do you guys want to do that?

Chris Enroth: 24:50

Well, here. We listed a lot of species earlier, right? Here's the list that is in front of me as the most... As like what are studied today. Emily, you tell me which one of these are the most popular right now.

Chris Enroth: 25:04

So we have Hickory, Yellow Birch, White Ash, and Sugar Maple. So of those four that are studied commonly today, what's the most popular one used today?

Emily Swihart: 25:19

Yep. So today I believe, and it might have evolved, but I believe that it goes in order of maple, ash, birch. Those are kind of the three big ones. Hickory's kinda dropped off, mostly because of a weight issue. It's just heavy, because of those regulations you said, Ken, like, and I guess I'll just say like, I gush over this because think about trees we're growing that have different unique properties.

Emily Swihart: 25:48

Like they're they are individual, trees growing in nature that then we have to, kind of manufacture and make fit into these very specific regulations that MLB bats have. We have to whittle them down, like remove material, you can't put it back. So you have to be careful when you're shaping these bats. And so I just love the idea of a maple or an ash or birch being, like graded and made into a pretty standardized, shape. So that's partly why I gush over this because we're taking something that's really unique and kind of, evaluating it.

Emily Swihart: 26:30

So Chris, had asked like the species. So maple bats, So ash has always been really popular. Let's start with ash, if you will, and, like, the characteristics because we are trying to find, once bats... Once it was realized that a a lighter weight bat is better for hitting farther, for hitting... Like, power hitter, heavier bats, and some still use them kinda in the transition, and there was kind of a resurgence, of the heavier baseball bat.

Emily Swihart: 27:03

But it's, I think generally now everyone is, in the the lighter weight bat range. So when I say heavier, I mean, it was, like, 40 ounces, compared to, like, 32, 34. So, you know, a significant amount of weight. So the idea was that if you can swing, a heavier bat can do some of the work for you. But as the game improved, the game sped up as pitching became more competitive because it wasn't always competitive either.

Emily Swihart: 27:38

Like, in the early years of the game, it was like, batters could request where you would get the ball pitched to you. The idea... You could say, like, I want it higher. I want it low, which just blows my mind. So it was, like, less adversarial.

Emily Swihart: 27:51

When that kinda went away when, batters were no longer requesting where they wanted the, you know, the ball to be pitched to them, coach pitch is what I think of when I think of, like, pitching where you want it. It became more of an adversarial competition. Right? So the the pitcher was purposefully trying to put the ball where the batter would not hit the ball and the, you know, the hitter was trying to to hit it. So that kind of moved us away from heavier bats because you couldn't get around on the ball as fast.

Emily Swihart: 28:22

Like you couldn't, you know, you couldn't get into the strike zone, as quickly. And so there was just more success had with a lighter bat. Lightweight, so I said hickory was pretty heavy. Ash became a very popular wood to use because of its lightweight components and its strength and durability. So it kind of had like the best of both worlds in that it was lighter weight and it would hold up to being smashed against a ball, for longer.

Emily Swihart: 28:50

So was honestly... So I was also reading, somebody compared it and said ash was also used as a lance because of those same properties you could hold. Like, and I don't... I've no... I did not verify that at all, but I thought that's fascinating.

Emily Swihart: 29:07

Like, there's like a whole deep dive we could go on to, you know, down that road. But those same properties made it desirable as well for battle, I guess, throughout history. So ash, some of the pros, I was just gonna go through some of these, is that it is more of a flexible, bat in nature. And so it can absorb some of the velocity of the ball. But over time, like with use, it compacts.

Emily Swihart: 29:39

And so it gets better over time. It was very, very, very popular, until Joe Carter kinda went over to maples, and I'll get there. I will get there. But it was it was like the most popular probably pre 1997 or so. It is lightweight.

Emily Swihart: 29:58

One of the, cons with ASH is that when it fails, it will because it is, let's see, It is more prone to breaking because, like, you use it longer and it gets more dense. And so it can splinter and and fail. All these bats can. But... And I'm trying to think of anything else I would be forgetting about ash.

Emily Swihart: 30:27

One of the things you can see the grain on ash and we'll get to that. Go ahead, Chris.

Chris Enroth: 30:32

Well, that might be my question because this was not, this was actually maybe a year ago. We've been talking bats for a while, everybody. You described with ash, the bats made from ash. You have to hit it a certain way. And if you did, and it's because of the wood grain that there is a particular spot on the bat.

Chris Enroth: 30:59

They even put the logo there. Is that right? So it has to be hit in a certain way. And that is the difference between Ash and Maple, correct?

Emily Swihart: 31:07

Almost. With Maples, you want to hit them in a certain way. So let's talk about maples and then I'll kind of get back to that. So maple became really popular because it, was like everyone's always looking for something better. So ash was like for a hundred years, it was one of the most popular species used.

Emily Swihart: 31:28

Maples started to become... They were intriguing and started to become popular for their use. Joe Carter first used maple baseball bats in the MLB in 1997 and had success, hit a home run. So everybody, you know, kinda thought that, you know, they were they were the new it bat. And I...

Emily Swihart: 31:50

He had described his... And I have... I will say I don't have experience with this. But he had said that when you have swung an ash made bat and then you switch over to maple, he said it feels totally different. I don't know what that means, but he said you will never go back.

Emily Swihart: 32:04

So apparently, somehow the feel of a maple bat, in comparison to an ash for a lot of players is more desirable. But so maple, and we're talking sugar maple or hardwood maple is what it's always described as. But it has... It is hard out of the gate. Like, it it does not need that break in time period.

Emily Swihart: 32:29

It is got a much denser, wood grain, like, structure to it. And so, like, out of the gate, it is a really hard dense wood that is pretty durable, and so it's good for baseball kind of right away. Now here's the problem with maple versus ash and that denser wood. With it, comes a propensity to shatter. So when people have probably seen this too, when a baseball bat breaks, it can kind of like break in half or it can explode is is how I interpret, you know, those visuals where like a baseball bat, like an ash or a birch with that softer wood grain is going to...

Emily Swihart: 33:12

It'll break. It'll splinter, but it won't like throw. Oftentimes. It won't throw like shards of wood everywhere. Maples will do that.

Emily Swihart: 33:22

And so once maples became a much more popular species to use in the MLB, There was, kind of a time period when it was, I wanna say like three quarters of the bats being used, like at one point were maple. So it was just being used a lot more in the game, but then it was also shattering a lot more. And people were getting injured, like fans were getting injured, umpires, players were getting hit by these... Like, one woman, like, broke her jaw. Like, her jaw was broken by being hit, by a bat that had shattered, kind of like all within like a very short time period.

Emily Swihart: 34:02

And so that, inspired the MLB to fund a study as to like what was going on and if like they could keep using, maple species safely. What they found from that is that the direction of the grain of the wood makes a big difference in how strong the bat is. If there are any imperfections in the grain, it, can weaken the bat. So like any any, you know, like splintering, any, you know, curvature of the grain can really weaken the bat, especially at that high level, like playing at such a high level. So they made these recommendations and this is what you were talking about Chris.

Emily Swihart: 34:45

And I probably told you wrong before. So let me correct myself now.

Chris Enroth: 34:49

I remember things wrong too.

Emily Swihart: 34:53

Maybe I told you wrong and you remembered it wrong. Maybe we were both just like...

Chris Enroth: 34:57

Oh, does that mean I'm right?

Emily Swihart: 34:59

I mean, Ken's right. Is Ken, got

Chris Enroth: 35:01

it. Good job.

Ken Johnson: 35:02

Works for me.

Emily Swihart: 35:04

Works for me. Okay. So the recommendations were that they recommended rotating or they kinda required that that the manufacturers, the bat manufacturers, rotated the label so that it indicated where the hardest part of the wood was. So it it aligned with the grain. And so you'll hear, you know, people say like you have to walk up and hold the the logo up.

Emily Swihart: 35:28

That is so that when you swing it, you are hitting it on the hardest, most dense part of that bat instead of hitting it, you know, like if you rotate the bat, that makes it a little bit more likely to shatter because that's not like in that sweet spot in the hardest dense wood of that bat. They also implemented the ink test, the inkblot test. And so this I did not realize was a thing. I I had seen this, but I did not understand what was going on. And so for MLB baseball bats, Ken, said that, like, there's those standards, but if it is a, maple or birch baseball bat they have to have, an ink test on them visible.

Emily Swihart: 36:13

So, what that does is once the bat has kind of been shaped into the bat before it's been painted and finished you know with like a varnish they test, with ink, the direction of the grain. And so they'll put they'll actually put ink on the the grain and measure like spread down, it highlights the grain of the the wood and they measure and there's a three degree, restriction. So if the wood vary or the grain varies beyond a three degree, direction, it cannot be used in the MLB. It's not to say that the bat won't be able to be used elsewhere, like in lower levels, but it cannot be used in the major leagues. And so they have to maintain that ink test on there, because more deviation from that 3% increases the chance of it splintering or shattering.

Emily Swihart: 37:05

And so pro grade baseball bats will have that. Still it'll have it visible. So look for that that on the TV when we're watching the big games.

Chris Enroth: 37:17

Is that the, there's like a round circle, a round dot. That's what that is on wood bats. I've seen them. I'm like, I don't know what

Emily Swihart: 37:25

the heck kind of on the handle. It's on the, yeah. Think it's within like 18 inches of the, knob, I think is what it's supposed to be. Yeah. Yep.

Emily Swihart: 37:33

So you know that that is either a birch or maple, probably a maple. And they don't do it on ash because you can visibly see, the grain on ash. And so they don't require it. You can tell where the grain is going on ash.

Chris Enroth: 37:51

Interesting. Yeah. That span of when they, this is kind of newish science, despite baseball being such an old pastime in this country, because they didn't start keeping track of this. As you said, Emily, it was 2008 when that's those rash of injuries started happening. So that's when they actually started keeping statistics of injuries from splintered bats.

Chris Enroth: 38:21

All time before that, I mean, I guess we could go look at old footage during MLB games and look at that. But at the collegiate level, little league, when kids are using wood bass, no one's keeping track when they're splitting and people are getting hurt. It's all anecdotal kind of before that. But, so I hear a lot of talk around the baseball field like, Oh, it's just because the woods just not the same as it was before. Like we got them from old hardwoods.

Chris Enroth: 38:57

Now we're getting them from young hardwoods. Is there any truth to that statement at all? Or are we just talking about this is how the bats are manufactured and it's kind of about the grain structure, the pore structure of these particular wood species?

Emily Swihart: 39:14

Yeah, probably not much, but there might be a little bit of nature influencing. I mean, this is a natural product. And so we do know that natural processes do influence how plants grow. Right? Like that's something we all know we've talked about many times, here.

Emily Swihart: 39:32

So, one of the things that I found interesting when I went on that tour, and I think everyone listening will appreciate my question in a way that the other tour members did not which was I want I want to know more about the growing conditions of these trees. That was out of the gate. They talked about and this is just Louisville. Other bats, you know, manufacturers. There's I something like near 40 in and around that that range of like wood bat manufacturers that are using the MLB.

Emily Swihart: 40:06

So like Louisville is not the only one. I'm not endorsing it. It just happens to be kind of the oldest and the one that happened to be along our drive back for vacation. So, and it's very popular. But they talked about where they would would source the...

Emily Swihart: 40:21

What they call billets. And so I can put that picture in here, but it... The billets are just like... Look like long tubes. They're just long, round, like, cylinder shaped pieces of wood that then do eventually get shaped into, bats.

Emily Swihart: 40:37

These billets come from, for Louisville Slugger. They have, a specific forest that they have always sourced their their wood from. It's a maple ash forest. It is along the line of of Pennsylvania, New York, the, Warren County, is what I've I've seen it referenced as like and it was, talked about that growing in that northern climate, that shorter growing season, that colder growing season produces, smaller growth rings like so that then leads to a tighter, more dense wood. So which is more, ideal for creating baseball bats.

Emily Swihart: 41:17

And so there might be some truth to that, like depending on where they sourced it. If it's a Louisville Slugger bat, I I... From my understanding, all of their bats come from this woodland. Now, they go through the grading process, and so not all of the bats meet the standards, like I said, for that professional level baseball bat. But that doesn't mean they're discarded or turned into kindling.

Emily Swihart: 41:41

They are then sold under a different branding basically for minor leagues or for high school or just kids having a good time. And so maybe is the question or is the answer to that. Like there might be something to it if they were sourced differently or if they weren't, graded properly or whatnot. But probably it has more to do with use, how the bat was, you know, how it was being used. We...

Emily Swihart: 42:13

I've had... I've seen teammates of my kids. Luckily, ours hasn't broken, but it's very possible that, you know, the wood bat just fails, because you hit it wrong. It was that lower quality wood. Just overuse.

Emily Swihart: 42:25

Like, you keep... You know, if there's a... If there is some damage to it and then you keep using it, like, it's gonna weaken, the bat anyways. So...

Ken Johnson: 42:34

So I wonder then as our as our growing seasons get longer, you know, is that gonna affect... Will that... Yeah. You know? How much how much, if any, would that affect?

Ken Johnson: 42:46

Longer growing season, more carbon dioxide, more growth.

Emily Swihart: 42:49

Yeah. It's... It is a conversation that has continued to happen. I think it's around the bat manufacturing world. Because at that time, even most of my question was when I heard, oh, ash, you know, ash is a is a major source.

Emily Swihart: 43:05

I thought, oh, like, just had emerald ash borer roll through. And I know Pennsylvania and New York were hit hard. And so, that was my question initially. And I was quickly, made to realize that I was the only one, that cared about that. They were like, yeah.

Emily Swihart: 43:22

But there... There's, like, more, you know, activity over here with, like, how... Like, there's, Babe Ruth's signature. Let's go look at that. So so I I let it go.

Emily Swihart: 43:33

I let it go. My husband gave me a weird look, and I just let it go. But it's a it's a valid question in that, you know, like, emerald ash borer hit the ash trees really hard. And this is a natural forest that they're managing, you know, to raise these trees. And so I don't know.

Emily Swihart: 43:48

Maples are not immune from, being, attacked either. You know, we've got Asian longhorned beetle, which is a real threat, to, maple trees. And so I don't know. Climate is evolving. It's...

Emily Swihart: 44:05

I think we'll still be playing baseball, but it is it is going to probably affect maybe the sourcing of the bat material species. I don't know. I wish I had a crystal ball.

Chris Enroth: 44:19

We see climate change impacting sugar maple populations, at least in the southern range. So, I mean, if you're a stressed tree, you won't be putting on much growth and you're not going to be able to get as many bats out of that tree if you have to harvest it for something.

Emily Swihart: 44:37

And I don't envy these foresters that are managing the woodland. So you know, in order to harvest wood that is going to end up being made into a Major League Baseball bat, you know, the single, a single tree could grow for sixty years. You know, it's a huge investment in order to rear a tree to that. Then they need to find trees that are, incredibly straight trunked. You know, they'll go through and evaluate and make sure that, you know, because that's how you're gonna get the grain, that's gonna have, the least deviation for, baseball bats.

Emily Swihart: 45:14

I was also reading like one single tree of the trees harvested, less than 5% end up at that pro grade wood. And out of every tree that's harvested, only approximately 40 bats are made. And so like there's an immense, there's a lot of trees that are being grown and cared for for many many years. There's a lot of input. And there's there are different factors now that are are at play that weren't initially at play forty years ago.

Chris Enroth: 45:47

So, these trees are being planted right now and cared for for players that aren't even born yet. I think that's incredible. Yeah. Time. Big time.

Chris Enroth: 46:01

Not

Emily Swihart: 46:02

even born yet.

Chris Enroth: 46:03

Right. Yeah. Several generations away.

Emily Swihart: 46:07

Yeah. Yep. I will say too, like... So we kinda like said, we've talked a little bit about the manufacturing process. So I'll I'll move us on from, the doom and gloom of the potential, you know, death of all the maples and ash trees.

Emily Swihart: 46:20

I guess we're going to have to do that Osage orange Ken so go ahead and go and plant your planting. But, they, so at this site in Pennsylvania, New York they that is where they harvest the trees, they cut the trees, they grade the trees, and they form the billets and they dry... They kiln dry. So if they're not shipping, like whole trees down to Louisville, they're shipping them in these billet bombs. I'll put a cool picture.

Emily Swihart: 46:44

It's just... I don't know. I hope others find this super fascinating, but there was just like this whole stack of like billets, like, potential baseball bats there. But they sort them, weigh them. There's constantly weighing of the...

Emily Swihart: 46:59

Of this wood because it's drying. You know, it was a living material, and even though they kiln dry it and they're changing it, you know, and then it just gets kinda goes through the process. And I'll just put them in here and so folks like can just watch where it just kinda moves it through and it slowly starts looking more and more like a baseball bat until you get down to like picking color schemes and putting, you know, kind of those finishing touches on it. Yeah. Signatures, the...

Emily Swihart: 47:29

With Louisville Slugger, other bats probably do the same thing, but if you have a contract. So as you're watching the games, if you see a a baseball player that has their signature on the bat, they are contracted through Louisville. If they do not, then they are just using the Louisville Slugger bats. They just like them. They don't have a contract.

Emily Swihart: 47:45

They're not a sponsored athlete And so you'll you'll kind of be able to tell which, athletes have partnered with Louisville. But I don't know. I... It's just... I could go on and on.

Emily Swihart: 47:56

And at the end, so they have little little, subs. I don't know where mine are. I think I need to find them. I think my kids have some in their rooms, but they have, like, end pieces. And you can get one after the tour.

Emily Swihart: 48:08

So I'm gonna go ahead and say that my... The end of my bat came from Shohei's. Nope, there's no evidence. There's absolutely no evidence that that is true.

Chris Enroth: 48:20

But he really liked that one.

Emily Swihart: 48:23

Yes. Yeah. So

Chris Enroth: 48:28

we mentioned rules for bats, MLB, I mean, not many, but they are pretty strict and rigid. But there was this one where it was like, you mentioned autographs kind of finishing like the, the, the end, like, you know, once they, they finish them off and then I guess they hand them off to the player or the athlete. There's a rule that they cannot have any coloration. Like no pigments, no dyes other than a, like a just straight wood finish on it. Than maybe like a, like a preserved, preserved over the top.

Chris Enroth: 49:02

So is that true? Like we, you have to be able to see that grain of that wood in there?

Emily Swihart: 49:08

I actually don't know. I I would believe it's true. But there are... I talk about, like, the painting. So, like, when we went, my kids were excited to see, like, the banana ball colorings on the bat.

Emily Swihart: 49:20

You know? Like, you know, there's all these... Like, I think for the gameplay bats, I do think that they have to be wood grain visible. But then there's the fun ones, you know, that you can buy that are are designed by a player. So that's when they start painting and doing some of those fun things.

Emily Swihart: 49:39

And I think even... I wonder if it's in the minor leagues. I guess I don't... Ken, do you know? You looked into the bats a little bit.

Emily Swihart: 49:47

I put you on the spot there. This was kind of a...

Ken Johnson: 49:49

So the... Yeah. For for coloring, so, this is rule 3.02 D, no colored bat may be used in a professional game unless approved by the rules committee for Major League Baseball.

Chris Enroth: 50:01

You just had that sitting up on your screen.

Ken Johnson: 50:03

I know.

Chris Enroth: 50:04

Way to go, Ken.

Ken Johnson: 50:05

It's one of the many tabs.

Chris Enroth: 50:08

Well, that... You can close that one up.

Emily Swihart: 50:09

Find it. Yes. Found it. That was impressive. My goodness.

Emily Swihart: 50:17

Yeah. I... And and like, there's customacy, you know, that is because it's MLB. Like, there's certain, you know, you... I...

Emily Swihart: 50:26

There was a player. I thought thought this was interesting and I... The name escapes me, but there were different you know, looks to bats, different like things were being tried and one of, the players, kind of in there the in between years. When bats were being manufactured but it was, you know, we we were still experimenting. Put stripes on their bat.

Emily Swihart: 50:51

The bat was striped and that was thought to mess up the picture or distract the picture. I'm like, honestly, I saw a picture of it. It's distracting. I don't know if a picture was able to tune it out, but, that's probably part of it too is, I wonder if it's just the safety. I mean, those balls are traveling at such high velocity.

Ken Johnson: 51:16

Get rid of the gamesmanship.

Chris Enroth: 51:18

Yeah.

Ken Johnson: 51:21

You

Chris Enroth: 51:23

know, I took my, we, our family, we went to, it was Omaha Storm Chasers, minor league game, July 4 this last summer. And my, my baseball player kid, he, he looked at me and he said, that is the most satisfying sound hearing a ball hit a wooden bat. He's like, that sounds so much better than a metal bat. And I'm just like, yeah, you're right. It just sounds better.

Chris Enroth: 51:52

I just like it better.

Emily Swihart: 51:53

Yep. Yeah. And he probably was listening to a maple bat being used. The maple bats, because of their density and because of like... That's what I kept reading over and over is like the crack of a bat, You know, is almost always attributed to a maple, bat being used.

Emily Swihart: 52:13

Cool. Mhmm. Yeah. And

Chris Enroth: 52:17

mad props for holding the Aussie Smith bat as a longtime Cardinals fan.

Emily Swihart: 52:21

Oh my gosh.

Chris Enroth: 52:22

Big fan of Ozzy Smith. Oh, I go watch him when I was a kid. I mean, yeah. Loved Ozzy.

Emily Swihart: 52:29

Yep. Honestly, that was my first choice. And then I was like, who else? Like, well, we... I did grow up to watch watching Aussie.

Emily Swihart: 52:39

And so I... It was like, that is obvious. Now I get to choose another one. But they had... The wall, I'll try to find a picture of that too.

Emily Swihart: 52:48

Just like an incredible amount of bats, from some of the the neatest players and history. There's the history that's there. In addition, so, like, I I was talking about the billets. They were sorting the billets. They have them sorted out by players too.

Emily Swihart: 53:05

Like, they're... They come in this big role, and they weigh them and sort them for, current players, like, to be made into bats for current players. And I can't remember who was on the wall when I took a picture. They may or may not be current now because it was a couple years ago. But that was really neat.

Emily Swihart: 53:25

Like, you started off the... I'm sorry, but like they'd know how to do a tour. Like you started off like introducing like where the the wood was coming from. And so like I said, like the horticultural nerd was like, yeah. But then they like walked you through the the process, like the whole thing.

Emily Swihart: 53:43

And you got to see like start to end. You really felt like you're kind of an experiencing bats being made and then they ended with like the history, you know, some of the MLB history and then the bats themselves from some of the the greatest players. It was really an a well done worth honestly worth the drive. Like I said, Even if you're not a baseball fan. I think it was really cool.

Emily Swihart: 54:05

I'll stop gushing now. I need to go to other museums so I can gush about them too. Because I'll be honest too, that was the only... That's the one and only sports museum I've been to. So maybe maybe they don't do it that well, and I just haven't been elsewhere.

Emily Swihart: 54:19

But for now, I will just say they do it very well. Before we wrap up, I do wanna just, like, casually mention. So we did kinda hone in on the species that were used at the beginning. And then we talked about some of the ones, like the, maple ash and and birch of today. There are some different bats being...

Emily Swihart: 54:40

Or different, materials being used for bats being made. You probably won't see them or you will not see them in the MLB, but, you might see them when you were shopping for your kid or they're, like, part of the conversation. So I'll just like quickly mention composite wood bats are being made. This is where they kind of like mix together, you know, a whole bunch of different species kind of to get the best of all the worlds. And so I was just looking at this and they are designed to be more durable, than our traditional bats.

Emily Swihart: 55:13

And so they don't have that breaking or splintering on impact, concern as much. They have a reduced vibration. And so you... Chris, you're talking about, like, the ringing in your hands. Like, ideally, these are gonna be designed, and so they don't kind of...

Emily Swihart: 55:29

Especially if you don't hit it on the sweet spot. You know, like, when you hit it on the tip of the batter on the, like, lower towards the handle, that can really, like, sting your hands. We didn't even talk about that. Like, you you wanna hit the ball ideally on the center kind of in the the middle of the bat, like, in that sweet spot. And bat design has evolved to try to kinda keep up with that sweet spot.

Emily Swihart: 55:51

I don't know that we'll get to the torpedo bat. That's a different design that's emerging, kinda to address that. But the composite wood bat is supposed to kinda like minimize that potential ringing, of your hands. And they do increase the size of that sweet spot because it's a harder, denser wood throughout the whole barrel of the bat. And so, that's the idea of the composite.

Emily Swihart: 56:17

And then bamboo is being used. And I thought this was fascinating. So bamboo is not a wood, material, like a traditional wood material, but they are layering, bamboo together. And so you... They're creating, baseball bats where it's like laminate strips of bamboo, together.

Emily Swihart: 56:37

It is really a renewable resource. Like we talked about the challenge of, you know, ash trees and maple trees and kind of the ecological threats they face. Bamboo grows very fast. It's pretty ecologically, friendly. Weight distribution, they said that it's slightly different weight distribution It takes getting used to so maybe hitters will have to adjust to that if they're going to use bamboo But, that was fascinating.

Emily Swihart: 57:04

I had not been exposed to that until just now. So I'm going keep an eye out for a bamboo composite or composite baseball bat.

Ken Johnson: 57:13

Yeah. Bamboo was not one I heard of either.

Emily Swihart: 57:15

I a little bit think bamboo is gonna, like, save the world. Like, bamboo clothing is amazing. Bamboo bats now. Like... As

Chris Enroth: 57:24

it takes it over too.

Emily Swihart: 57:26

As it takes it over. I mean... Excellent point. We got a girl where it can it can be managed, but...

Chris Enroth: 57:36

Real quick, Soup Talk podcast inside this very podcast. We, as of this recording, it is going to get chilly this weekend. Are you guys making any soup as we dip towards freezing? Ken, what soup are you making this weekend?

Ken Johnson: 57:51

I don't know if it's soup, maybe chili.

Chris Enroth: 57:53

Alright. I like it. Emily.

Emily Swihart: 57:56

I just saved a recipe for a squash soup that I'm really intrigued by, so we'll see if we get that made. But how about you, Chris?

Chris Enroth: 58:03

Hey, I'm going to be in Ken's camp, with a white chicken chili. Looking forward Maybe to

Emily Swihart: 58:09

not now, but we should debate if chili's a soup.

Chris Enroth: 58:12

Oh, that's right. We already asked. Did we ask this question on the first episode of soup talk?

Emily Swihart: 58:19

We asked it. We never answered it. Maybe... Could we get maybe the the listeners? Go ahead and vote in in the comments of the...

Emily Swihart: 58:27

How about just YouTube? Everybody go to YouTube because you should be looking at the pictures that I'm sharing. Let's get it. Let's get some input.

Chris Enroth: 58:37

I'm gonna get into soups, stews and chilis. Yes, we will.

Emily Swihart: 58:41

Love it.

Chris Enroth: 58:43

Well, that was a lot of great information about baseball bats and the history, kind of where it's been, where we're at today. I thought it was fascinating. Emily, thanks so much for taking us along on this journey. And I think if you're into this and retirement, you could totally be a docent at this museum. But when people like us show up, you can tell them the spacing of the trees in the woods.

Chris Enroth: 59:12

You can tell them like, you know, some of the management, of those trees. And I know you will not disappoint.

Emily Swihart: 59:19

Well, thank you. That's very sweet. And that would be an amazingly fun job. I will add to our list, Good Growing Road Trip list, and we need to go to this woodland. I really need to see this.

Emily Swihart: 59:31

We need to go up to New York, Pennsylvania area and check this out and then hit the museum on the way back so we can fill them in on what we found out. No, thanks for, for you know, indulging me. Like I said, I love baseball. I think that it is America's pastime for a reason. And I'm I was excited to dive into this topic.

Emily Swihart: 59:51

So thank you guys.

Chris Enroth: 59:54

And Ken, thanks for, you know, coming right along with me as as... Well, you said you played baseball. I I I didn't even play. So, this one non baseball player along with a quasi baseball player? Thanks for doing this today.

Ken Johnson: 01:00:13

You're welcome, miss. Thank you, Emily. Probably need to go watch some baseball games now and actually pay attention to the bets and see what's going on.

Chris Enroth: 01:00:22

World Series, great time

Ken Johnson: 01:00:23

for that. Yes. Let's do this again next week.

Chris Enroth: 01:00:27

Oh, we shall do this again next week. Are we getting towards the end of spooky season? I feel like it's just started, but we are and we are going to be talking about sugar on Halloween. So look forward to that episode. Well, listeners, thank you for doing what you do best and that is listening or if you watched us on YouTube watching.

Chris Enroth: 01:00:48

And as always, keep on growing.