Friend or foe? Insects in your landscape with Dr. Ken Johnson

Abigail Garofalo: 00:06

Welcome to another episode of the Everyday Environment Podcast, where we explore the environment we see every day. I'm your host, Abigail Garofalo.

Amy Lefringhouse: 00:14

And I'm your cohost, Amy Lefringhouse.

Abigail Garofalo: 00:16

And today we are joined by Ken Johnson, horticulture educator serving Calhoun, Cass, Greene, Morgan, and Scott Counties here to chat with us all about insects in our home landscape. Welcome, Ken.

Ken Johnson: 00:29

Thanks for having me. So I guess for people who aren't familiar with Calhoun, Cass, Morgan and Scott Counties, Jacksonville is a big city. It's about forty minutes west of Springfield, West Central Illinois.

Abigail Garofalo: 00:40

Not far from my hometown. I'm from Central Springfield like, I'm from Springfield, Illinois, so I know Jacksonville.

Ken Johnson: 00:45

It's a great place to be. Everybody should come visit.

Amy Lefringhouse: 00:47

Yes. West Central Illinois. Go IC. I'm also an IC, an Illinois College alum, so I'm very familiar with Jacksonville.

Amy Lefringhouse: 00:54

So yay.

Abigail Garofalo: 00:56

Ken, thank you so much for joining us for hopping over to our podcast. Any of y'all who heard Ken's voice and said, man, that voice sounds really familiar. You may know him from Good Growing, another wonderful Illinois Extension podcast that you all have been doing for weekly. And before we started recording, you said you've been doing it for seven years. That's crazy.

Ken Johnson: 01:15

Yeah. There's there's some days where, why why do we do this to ourselves? But, yes, I think, yeah, almost almost every week for you. Six, seven years now.

Abigail Garofalo: 01:24

Yeah. And we've had Chris on the pod, and he's on the season too. Right, Amy?

Amy Lefringhouse: 01:28

Yep. He'll be here.

Abigail Garofalo: 01:28

So we got we got some good growing energy going on this season, which I'm loving. So we are excited to have you. Now this is your first time on our podcast. Why don't you introduce yourselves to our audience and tell us a little bit about the work that you do with Extension?

Ken Johnson: 01:44

So you mentioned I'm a horticulture educator, so basically if it's not corn and beans and some forestry stuff, it comes to me more or less in our office. My background is more entomology, so insects. So a lot of stuff I do is kind of insect related or fruit and vegetable related and dabble in native plants and stuff. A lot of pest management and I like beneficial insects are kind of my thing. So try to encourage people to accept insects instead of try to kill every single one they see.

Ken Johnson: 02:18

Because they're they're a vital part of our environments.

Abigail Garofalo: 02:21

You're in the right spot today. That's what we're here to all talk about. So

Amy Lefringhouse: 02:24

That's right. So throughout this season, we are talking about working with nature, and you're talking about beneficial insects and not wanting to smush or spray the first sight of an insect. And we know that they're a huge part of our systems. What are some of the important jobs that these insects are doing in our landscapes that we might not notice?

Ken Johnson: 02:49

Yeah. So I guess when you think about the web of life, you know, thinking back to middle school or high school, we've got our producers, our consumers, our decomposers. So our producers are going to be our plants, our algae, things like that. Harvesting energy from the sun, creating sugars. It's kind of the base of all life on earth.

Ken Johnson: 03:07

When it comes to consumers, we've got our herbivores feeding on plants. We've got our carnivores feeding on other animals and then omnivores doing both. Insects are going to fit all three of those, I guess, consumer profiles, so, you know, the insects are feeding on other, a lot of other insects, so I think from a human perspective, they're helping us manage pest populations, keeping those populations lower than they would if they weren't around. You know, we think we have bad pest problems now if we got rid of all the beneficial insects. It'd be game over for us, pretty quickly.

Ken Johnson: 03:37

They, you know, the pests will wipe out a lot of our crops, even more so than they do already. You know, when we think about them feeding on our plants, our desirable plants, whether that's your fruits, vegetables, ornamental plants, you know, they're feeding on weeds too. So again, they're helping keep those other those plant populations in check as well, for better or worse. Think about things like termites feeding on wood in your house, which we don't want. Out in the environment, they're breaking down dead plant material, returning those nutrients to the soil, kind of continuing cycling of those nutrients through the environment.

Ken Johnson: 04:07

Pollination is the big thing most people think about when it comes to benefit. Insects being beneficial, you know, 90% of flowering plants need some sort of animal, typically insects, in order to reproduce. And then we also have our decomposers, so they're, again, breaking down that plant material. So our termites will do that. And we think about dung beetles or flies.

Ken Johnson: 04:27

You know, those house flies can be annoying flying around your food, but out in the environment they're breaking down that animal material. Again, cycling those nutrients through the environment. Breaking that stuff down into smaller pieces, so fungus and bacteria are more efficient at breaking it down. So they're, you know, insects are vital to the environment. Know, food source for other animals.

Ken Johnson: 04:48

They're kind of the base of the food chain for a lot of animals. Think songbirds was at 90, Doug Tallamy, he said 96% of terrestrial songbirds need insects to feed their young, so you can put out all the seeds you want, but if you don't have the insects, you don't have the babies, and we don't have the songbirds. So they're they're they're integral to all of our ecosystems.

Abigail Garofalo: 05:11

Made me think of a couple of things. One, I love that you broke it down to like an ecology one zero one. Right? Like, I think a lot of us think, you know, the things that we learned in grade school science or whatever, like, I'm never gonna need that again. But a lot of this comes back down to that, and it's like stuff that we all learned at some point.

Abigail Garofalo: 05:27

Right? Producers, consumers, decomposers, basics. Right? And a lot of the things on our landscape, we can understand a little bit better if better if we use that lens, right, to help us understand all of those pieces and how they work together. I love that also you mentioned Doug Tallamy because for our listeners, we're we're interviewing him at the end of the season as well to talk about this.

Abigail Garofalo: 05:50

So this this he's an entomologist, so like going into this insect piece is really valuable to help us understand the whole landscape. So we talk about a lot of these really important roles that they play. They play in all levels of the food chain. Right? All levels of the food web, all of those basic ecology concepts.

Abigail Garofalo: 06:06

They're they're integral to those pieces, but a lot of people really only notice the issues with insects when they're or they only notice insects when they're an issue. Right? When they've been creating a problem, they're eating something. You mentioned, Ken, they're they're eating your house termites versus, like, decomposing wood out in the forest. Before we go into any big specific problems, big picture, how do we find some balance between, like, supporting those beneficial insects and managing the situations where they can really start to affect our livelihood or our daily lives?

Ken Johnson: 06:39

I think a lot of it is being accepting of insects. They are they are everywhere. Are going to be places where you don't necessarily want them. But it's it's fewer than, like, 1% of all insects are actually considered pests.

Amy Lefringhouse: 06:50

Oh, wow.

Ken Johnson: 06:51

You know, there's there's something like a million described species out there. You know, some estimates between three and thirty million insect species on Earth, depends on what you read, so there there's a lot of species of insects, you know, and there's just a lot of insects when we talk about biomass as well. So I found one thing. It's estimated there are 1,400,000,000 insects per person on Earth, so it's about 10 quintillion insects on Earth. So that's one followed by 19 zeros at any one time.

Ken Johnson: 07:18

So there's a lot of species, and there's just a lot of them everywhere. Like, humans, we like to think that we rule the world. We don't. It's if the insects ever teamed up and decided we're done with humans, we wouldn't last very long. So it's becoming more accepting of them.

Ken Johnson: 07:33

They're here. Again, most of them are not causing problems. And they have a little beetle running across the floor, you know, probably accidentally made it inside, scoop it up, put it outside. It's not going to cause you any damage. Yes, there are some that cause problems, but again, that's the vast majority.

Ken Johnson: 07:47

From the human perspective, they're either beneficial or they're benign. They don't really affect us too much in our, in our day to day lives. So I guess finding that acceptance of them and realizing that not every not every insect is out to get you or your plants and cause problems.

Abigail Garofalo: 08:01

I remember talking about this with Agustin during the wildlife season about when you find something that you feel like is a pest or a problem, instead of, like, thinking let's get rid of it, ask questions about it. Be curious. Right? I remember learning in my entomology class in college, we were talking about cockroaches, and he's like, those are, like, really low on the actual pest impact scale. They're more of an issue of, like, hygiene or, like, an indicator of, like, there is something going on in your house, but, like, they're not a threat to, like, food sourcing or anything.

Abigail Garofalo: 08:40

Like, they're much less of a concern compared to, like, an agricultural pest. Right? And so, yeah, that, like, be curious, I guess, is kind of where I'm trying to go with that and think about, like, don't just be like, oh, it's go it's here. It's gotta go. Be like, why is it here?

Abigail Garofalo: 08:56

I think is a really good approach to start out with instead of hating it right away.

Amy Lefringhouse: 09:01

You talked about like if they teamed up. I think I can't remember if Doug I know Doug Tallamy writes about E. O. Wilson's The Little Things That Could Run the World. Isn't that one of his publications that he wrote?

Amy Lefringhouse: 09:15

I can't remember. But, yeah. We talked about E. O. Wilson actually in Sarah Vogel's episode before this about his biophilia, you know, like concept about, you know, people have this innate instinct to love nature.

Amy Lefringhouse: 09:29

But, you know, EO Wilson talked a lot about biodiversity and starting with the insects. Right? And starting with that, like, oh, there's so many of them. They perform so many services like you were saying earlier. It's just how do we approach them and view them in a, like you said, Abigail, curious mind frame.

Ken Johnson: 09:48

Well, and for a lot of people, know, as we as humans become more urbanized, people encounter nature less, and they encounter insects less. So there's a kind of that fear of the unknown. And if you don't encounter them, you don't know what they are. And so that kind of builds on there's some papers out there on kind of the insect disgust hypothesis, so that kind of urbanization has made it worse, but it's becoming more prevalent because people aren't coming into contact with them. And when they do in urban areas, it's usually your cockroaches, which there's really, you know, when you think about Illinois, there's like two species of cockroaches that actually cause problems, your German and American cockroach, both of which are from Africa, not Germany or The United States.

Ken Johnson: 10:30

But when we are encountering them you know, in urban areas, we're more likely to encounter the more pest species than than the ones that don't really affect us much at all.

Amy Lefringhouse: 10:39

And also, you're talking about like the nature's over here. We're over here, kind of like the separate you know, when we were little, you were curious about insects. Right? We're out there like picking them up, the roly poly's. You know, you're like you're like, what is this and what is that?

Amy Lefringhouse: 10:54

And then, you know, as we get older and a little bit more separated from, you know, nature and kind of doing our day to day stuff, we we don't have that interaction or curiosity as we once had.

Ken Johnson: 11:07

Well, and even with kids. I've got hissing cockroaches at schools and usually second, third grade, they don't want anything to do with them. Like, little kids are all about holding them. Yeah. But as they get older, they become less and less holding.

Ken Johnson: 11:20

It's usually the boys, the most apprehensive. Usually it's the girls that'll go first, and then the boys will begrudgingly start holding them. But, like, once you get into middle school, high school, the vast majority of the kids don't want there's a lot of screaming and yelling and and stuff involved.

Abigail Garofalo: 11:36

Mhmm. Makes me think about cicada summer not too long ago when everybody was like forced to deal with insects on like a major level, but like an insect that was so benign to, like, humans in a sense. Right? Like, it was not they couldn't bite you. It was, like, not the worst thing that happened was, like, the not fleas.

Abigail Garofalo: 11:55

What were they, Ken? Like, the

Ken Johnson: 11:56

No. The itch mites.

Abigail Garofalo: 11:57

Yeah. The mites. That's what it was. Like, the mites that were like a product essentially of having so many cicadas around. And that but I remember people calling in all the time being like, the cicada bit me, and I was like, cicadas cannot bite you.

Abigail Garofalo: 12:10

I promise you.

Amy Lefringhouse: 12:13

Well, let's talk about some of our frustrations that maybe we people might have as homeowners. You know, I can't enjoy my patio because of mosquitoes. So where should people begin before we reach for those treatments? Like, what should we do first?

Ken Johnson: 12:29

Don't go outside.

Amy Lefringhouse: 12:31

Stay inside all the time.

Ken Johnson: 12:33

So so when we think about Not

Abigail Garofalo: 12:35

the vibe. Not the vibe, Ken. I don't know what you do on good growing, but in everyday environment, definitely encouraging people outside. So

Ken Johnson: 12:46

so when you think about the mosquitoes that are biting people, typically, they're coming out in the evening, dusk or at night. So, know, oftentimes easier said than done, but if you kind of avoid those peak hours, you avoid a lot of the problems you have with mosquitoes. Now there are day flying mosquitoes that'll bite, but majority of them are flying in the evening or dusk. So that's one way. Just don't go out when they're most active.

Ken Johnson: 13:09

And again, that's it can be easier said than done. If, you know, if you are outside, insects are not particularly strong flyers, so if you're sitting on a patio having a fan running to kind of have that air movement, keep them away from you, it can help kind of go a long way, keeping them off of you as well. Mosquitoes need water to reproduce, and they don't necessarily need a whole lot of water, so making sure you are, you know, if you've got old tires or something sitting around, make sure those are get rid of them. But if you have them, they're being drained, drill holes in them, something like that so they're not collecting water. Gutters aren't clogged, filling with water.

Ken Johnson: 13:46

You know, toys, sandbox, something like that. You got buckets for kids or something, or scoops or whatever that can hold water. You know, make sure that stuff's getting dumped out at least once a week. Because during peak, it's nice and warm. They can go through their life cycle in seven to ten days.

Ken Johnson: 14:02

You have potted plants outside, you have that drip tray underneath, make sure you're emptying that. Just reducing the standing water to kind of break up that life cycle so they can't reproduce. You're not going to eliminate them, but it can help reduce the populations in your backyard. There's the mosquito bucket of doom, where you've got a five gallon bucket. You put in straw, leaf litter, something like that.

Ken Johnson: 14:26

Put water in there. You can put a stick in there, so something desirable. Some other insects fall in there, they can crawl out. Put a lid on it with screening. Basically, you're you're creating environment that mosquitoes want to breed in, then you put mosquito dunks in there That contains a bacteria, BTI, that the mosquitoes will larvae will feed on, and that'll kill them.

Ken Johnson: 14:45

So basically, you're drawing in those mosquitoes to lay their eggs, and you're killing the larvae. So and really that's the best way if you're going try to manage mosquitoes, is getting rid of the larvae. You can spray all you want for the adults, but they're just going to keep flying back in. Get rid of the water sources, treat the water sources, or if you have a pond, something like that, either fish, you know, those BTI, dunks, something like that, to to reduce those larval populations.

Amy Lefringhouse: 15:12

What about my bird bath, Ken?

Ken Johnson: 15:14

Yeah. Bird bath, yeah, once a week. Empty that out. If it's like my bird bath, it only gets filled when it rains, and then it dries out. So

Amy Lefringhouse: 15:22

Mine too. Mine too.

Abigail Garofalo: 15:24

I had to put my bird bath away. I'm just not consistent enough. Like, I'm too lazy of a gardener to clean it, empty it, all the things. Don't be like me though who with a rain barrel and didn't realize that it was connected, and I just thought it wasn't connect because I I one of my hoses broke, so I was like, oh, I'll just won't connect it this summer, and that was last summer. And I was like, why are the mosquitoes so bad?

Abigail Garofalo: 15:50

And I look and it is a full rain barrel that hasn't been emptied since I don't know when and has just been sitting. And I'm like, oh my and I felt so bad. My neighbors were like, why are the bugs so bad? And I'm like, it's me. I have no

Ken Johnson: 16:05

idea.

Abigail Garofalo: 16:06

I have no idea. So I got my mosquito bucket of doom this summer. It's fine.

Amy Lefringhouse: 16:11

I don't I haven't done the mosquito bucket. I I feel like I'm going to try it. Try it. Can it be done anytime of, like like, during all of summertime, just anytime you wanna start that.

Ken Johnson: 16:23

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, ideally, you'd put it out in the spring when they start showing up. And you really want to kind of put them in shade because the adults will hang out in the shade during might sitting on our back deck in full sun. But it's still before you get the mosquito dunks in there, you can still see all kinds of stuff swimming around in there.

Ken Johnson: 16:38

So and if you have you know, depending how big your yard is, you could put multiple up. And if you've got convince all your neighbors to, you know, you start getting into that area wide, you can really put a kind of reduce those populations if you get a lot of people around you doing it as well. But you've gotta those dunks last for a month or so. Read the label. They'll tell you often you have to redo it.

Ken Johnson: 16:59

But if you if you do it and think it's gonna last all summer, you're you're gonna have lots of mosquitoes down the road.

Amy Lefringhouse: 17:05

Yeah. Yeah. I just

Abigail Garofalo: 17:07

say the first of the month, it's the first of the month. Gotta put my new dunk in. That's my, like, my little quarter dunk. But my neighbor went on it. He actually didn't know what I was going to, and then he was like, I wish you would have told me we could have gone in because he bought the granular version, like, instead of the little discs.

Abigail Garofalo: 17:22

He bought, like, a bag because he was like, oh, I know I'll be having to do this. And so he was like, we could've gone in together on the on the, like, the mosquito dunk stuff. And I was just like, we could've. Like, we should it's a whole neighborhood thing. So so we talk about standing water, which hold on.

Abigail Garofalo: 17:39

I just have to ask. How many people have, like, tires just in their yards? Because I feel like this is not that common in my experience, but I'm like, is that a thing that I don't understand?

Amy Lefringhouse: 17:50

In the rural areas, I would say

Abigail Garofalo: 17:52

yes. Is it? Okay.

Amy Lefringhouse: 17:54

Well, I mean, you know, you've got different types of equipment that have to you know, when you go get your tires changed or whatever in your car, yeah, you've got like, oh, they're gonna take and they're gonna dispose of the tires at the tire shop. But when you've got other equipment and tractors and things, you know, sometimes that doesn't happen. So I mean, rural places, I would say, yes.

Abigail Garofalo: 18:15

Okay. That checks out. I just feel like that's always the recommendation. I'm like, I need to ask people who know.

Ken Johnson: 18:20

House came with tires.

Abigail Garofalo: 18:21

Your house see, your house came with tires, Ken. It was common.

Amy Lefringhouse: 18:26

So your house came with tires. Did it also come with paint? I feel like

Ken Johnson: 18:30

Paint?

Amy Lefringhouse: 18:30

All houses come with paint cans of paint that are, like, leftover.

Ken Johnson: 18:35

We had a couple of toilets, old toilets. I put them out I put them outside and turned them into planters. My I I wanted to put them outside on our front sidewalk going up to our house, but my wife wouldn't let me. She made me do it in the backyard.

Abigail Garofalo: 18:48

We love a horticulturalist. They've so good. Alright. So now we're talking so we we have like some options looking at their life cycle, learning about them. When it comes to spraying or like treatments or anything like that, are those plausible options?

Abigail Garofalo: 19:05

Like, do they are they effective?

Ken Johnson: 19:07

So it's like the spraying you do yourself is you know, from a lot of what I've read, they last for a day or two. And really what you're putting out is gonna kill pretty much anything that comes into contact that's with it. So, you know, maybe good if you've a big event coming in. You know, keep the mosquitoes out and do it like that morning if it's in the evening. But really and you put your kill on everything else.

Ken Johnson: 19:25

So it's it's really don't last very long, and it's kind of indiscriminate. So it really is not probably the best option for managing mosquitos . Again, adults are not the stage we want to control because they're just going to keep flying in from elsewhere. If you can reduce the adult population through managing the larvae, that'll go away. So the insect spraying is probably not the best way to go about doing that.

Ken Johnson: 19:48

It's reducing the water, avoiding them at peak times if at all possible, and wearing repellents, is going to be a big one as well. DEET is kind of the gold standard. I know a lot of people don't necessarily like it, but it's been it's been around for a long time. It's been tested. It's been tested to be safe for a long time.

Ken Johnson: 20:05

But there's others. It was a lemon of eucalyptus oil, IR five thirty five, or I may have gotten those numbers wrong. But it's fives and threes in some combination. But there's there's multiple different EPA registered insect repellents. You can go on the EPA website and there's a there's a list of them that you can apply.

Ken Johnson: 20:22

And again, like everything else, read the label, reapply them. They don't last forever. If you are applying a sunscreen, if you are a pasty redhead and you need to wear sunscreen when you go outside, make sure you're putting your insect repellent on on top of the sunscreen. You put the repellent on, put the sunscreen on, you've covered that repellent. It's not going to do you any good.

Ken Johnson: 20:41

So repellents go on last. There's also permethrin, which is an insecticide you can treat your clothing with. You can do it yourself or you can buy clothing that's already treated with it. And this can last multiple washes, again, depending on what you're using. But you can usually wash it multiple times before it wears off, and you have to reapply.

Ken Johnson: 21:01

And that can act, as a repellent, and as they land on it, it can kill them as well. So if you're going out in areas that are really heavily infested with mosquitoes, a lot of people will get that permethrin impregnated clothing or do it themselves. And again, read and follow the label directions for that. Covering up as much of your skin as possible. You know, if you have exposed skin, they're going to bite so long sleeve, long shirt, kind of like you do with ticks.

Ken Johnson: 21:26

Cover up as much as you can. Head netting, you know, if need be. Light colored clothing, because of mosquitoes, you know, they're picking up on the chemical the CO two, carbon dioxide you're breathing out, and they're picking up on chemicals you're giving off in dark colors as well. So that all three of those kind of go into how they find people. So light colored clothing makes you a little less attractive as well.

Abigail Garofalo: 21:49

See, be curious. This is so interesting.

Amy Lefringhouse: 21:52

I know.

Abigail Garofalo: 21:53

Interesting. Yeah. I I I feel like people are tend to, like, not want to do the treatment on, like, themselves, but I'm like, we have tested that thoroughly. And, like, a lot of the times, like, these sprays that we're seeing from, you know, like, bugguy.com or whatever willing to spray your entire yard, that's not nearly as as thoroughly looked at, especially to, like, about the impacts of whatever is around that area. Bycatch is like, I think the research on, like, the bycatch from these, like, mosquito fogs is, like, at least 60% bycatch, which is, like, a crazy high number for, like, intention basically saying your 60% of what you're killing is not what you intended to kill, which is crazy. Target.

Amy Lefringhouse: 22:37

Yeah.

Abigail Garofalo: 22:38

Yeah. Well, when we're looking at another thing that, you know, people have issues with when it comes to their bugs, more I'm not gonna say rapid fire because we're taking a little longer on them than rapid. But, you know, when we're talking about our porch lights, why are there so many bugs around my porch light? What's happening there, and are there ways that people can reduce that? Is that causing a problem for insects that we should be a little more cautious of?

Abigail Garofalo: 23:00

Things like that.

Ken Johnson: 23:01

Well, traditionally, it's been thought, you know, insects are attracted to that outdoor lighting, but there's actually a paper, in 2024 that actually did some experiments on this. And what they found is that the insects aren't necessarily attracted to the light. It's basically they use a light to orient themselves and help them fly. So typically when they're flying, they want that light source on their dorsal side on their back. And that helps them orient, and kind of keep them in line with the horizon.

Ken Johnson: 23:27

At night when you have this point source, this light, basically, they they they're using that to orient and they want to keep that light on their back. So that's what causes them to circle and fly erratically because they're trying to keep that light at their back. So I guess more or less that kind of draws them in because they're trying to orient themselves and they kind of get stuck in this this death loop almost, just trying to to orient themselves around the light. You know, like, can get exhausted, dehydrated, cause them to die. And we have increased predation because of that.

Ken Johnson: 23:55

It can disrupt life cycle, you know, throw off that circadian rhythm, disrupt mating, you think about fireflies, lightning bugs, whatever you want to call them. You know, they need that light to signal to each other. When you have bright lighting, they can't do that anymore. So that that disrupts that as well. So it kinda, I guess, messes them up.

Ken Johnson: 24:13

So some things you can do to kind of prevent these issues with that is is first reduce the amount of outdoor lighting we have. I would say most people have more than they really need, and we leave them a lot of people leave it on all night. So think about reducing the amount, and and only turn it on when you need it. So if you have your front porch light on all night and you're not expecting anybody, you know, turn it off. Nobody's coming to visit you.

Ken Johnson: 24:37

Turn it off. You know, use a motion sensor. Hook your sense lights up to a motion sensor so that if, you know, you're worried about people or animals or something, that light's going to turn on when the sensor's motion, but it's going turn back off, so it's not on all the time. One that people don't think about, and one that I forget to do at home a lot, is closing your blinds and curtains. Because We've got all lights on inside.

Ken Johnson: 24:57

That light is bleeding out into the environment, again, creating that light pollution. And you may not have a whole lot of stuff attracted, but it can we talk about lightning bugs, fireflies, you know, that can be enough to disrupt or make it too bright for them to be able to signal all that well. You know, closing those blinds and stuff. If you are going to have lights outside, look at that yellow or amber colored, the warm colored lights. That is, I guess, quote unquote, less attractive to insects than more of the blue lighting.

Ken Johnson: 25:25

And we think about, you know, when municipalities have gone to LED lights, they're more on that blue spectrum than they are in. And a lot of time, you know, LEDs first started becoming widespread. You know, that was, you know, we've got more LEDs. That's going reduce energy use. A lot of places have done they've gone and put more lighting in, because it's cheaper.

Ken Johnson: 25:44

So we're getting more light more light pollution in a lot of places because of that. So turn them off if you can, or if you're not using them, different colored lighting, shielding the lights so they're facing down, not up at the sky. There's some other things you can do as well.

Amy Lefringhouse: 25:57

That's really cool. I've done some talks on light pollution, but just talking about light pollution itself, like I was just talking about the night sky and how the loss of the night sky and just all these different strategies and the amber lighting or the warmer lighting and the shields. But I guess I didn't even realize the impact it would have on night flying insects or night active insects. I didn't even think about that, so makes sense. I do have a question though.

Amy Lefringhouse: 26:30

When you're talking about this is going back to basic insect behavior, but they want that light at their back, their dorsal. So is that typically like their moon, they're using the moon or what is like the natural light, the moonlight that they're trying to keep at their back and they're trying to facilitate Yeah. Their way

Ken Johnson: 26:52

But that kind of keeps them level with the horizon, the moon, or I would assume it would work the same for day

Amy Lefringhouse: 26:58

Yeah.

Ken Johnson: 26:58

Sun as well. Actually, in that paper, they have videos where they have light sources of different areas. Actually have the light below them, and they will actually try to fly what we would consider upside down

Amy Lefringhouse: 27:10

What?

Ken Johnson: 27:10

Trying to align their in fact, it's it's pretty cool. Look at And they just kinda tumbled to the ground because they can't they can't maintain that flight sometimes upside down.

Amy Lefringhouse: 27:19

With gravity and, you know, whatnot. That's super cool. So talked about mosquitoes, talked about insects at night. So lots of times us as homeowners feel this pressure to spray our yards regularly for insects like preventative measures. Right?

Amy Lefringhouse: 27:35

So how should people think through whether treatment is actually necessary?

Ken Johnson: 27:41

The big thing would be, do you actually have the pests that you're spraying for? Like, is it even are they even there? Do you even need to spray for them? You know, think about lawns. A lot of people spray for grubs

Abigail Garofalo: 27:51

Mhmm.

Ken Johnson: 27:51

And stuff. You know, if your lawn isn't in full sun, don't have a lot of shade, it's been dry, you're probably not gonna have a whole lot of grub. We're talking about Japanese beetles anyway. You're probably not gonna have a whole lot of grubs. And you can actually, you know, cut the side, pull it back, see if you have grub populations in there that are causing problems.

Ken Johnson: 28:06

Know, if you've got a real high maintenance turf where you're fertilizing and it's really lush, you're probably gonna so you're probably a little more likely to have issues with with grubs than if you're just, you're more like me, and as long as it's green, it doesn't matter. I've I've I know I've got grubs in my yard. Every time I dig, I find grubs, but you can't tell it because, you know, there's other stuff there and you don't necessarily see, the damage from. So I think, one, making sure you actually have the pest. Two is, you know, rethinking it's okay to have some damage to your plants.

Ken Johnson: 28:39

Like, we're trying to create an environment that's welcoming to insects, you got to accept the plant damage that goes along with it. Like, if you want butterflies and moths, you got to let the caterpillars eat your plants.

Abigail Garofalo: 28:51

It's You want birds, you've got to let the caterpillars live.

Ken Johnson: 28:56

Yeah. Yeah. And it all builds on itself. So you've got to be, and again, probably preaching to the choir here, but you've to be willing to accept that there's going to be some damage to plants. You know, if you've got a prized rose bush, you know, that you take to the county fair or the state fair, maybe you net that to keep stuff off.

Ken Johnson: 29:15

But I think a lot of times we can avoid the spraying. We can kind of encourage some other natural enemies to manage populations and stuff as well. But I would say a lot of times people are spraying the yards. It's not necessary. We kind get on that calendar spray.

Ken Johnson: 29:31

You sign up with a lawn care company, we're going to come out once a week and cut the grass, and every so often, we're going to spray and we're going to fertilize. And a lot of times, that's not necessary because the stuff is if it is even there.

Abigail Garofalo: 29:42

Mhmm. Can I ask about what I've been hearing too is how bad the ticks are? And so they spray preventatively for ticks. Is there like something to that or some other considerations people should have when it comes to that particular pest?

Ken Johnson: 29:57

Yeah. Ticks are kind of tricky just because they do have that, you know, the disease vector, kinda like mosquitoes too. So you do have that that health component to it. You know, if you're spraying your yard for ticks, I would limit it to kind of the areas that you frequent, maybe like your turf areas, not necessarily the flowering plants which you're drawing in pollinators and other stuff that you're going to kill as well. So being if you are going to spray, use that judiciously, and think about where you're going to be putting it, and and kind of frequenting if you're trying to manage ticks or something like that.

Ken Johnson: 30:31

And then there's other ways you can, you know, the brush piles, you know, making your your yard less inviting to rodents, which they're going to feed on a lot, you know, cleaning up spilled bird seed. You're not going to eliminate the ticks that way, but you're going to reduce the amount of of mice and other small mammals that they're feeding on that may be carrying them in and stuff.

Amy Lefringhouse: 30:51

I I was also thinking about ticks and like well, like you were talking about the the wildlife that might bring ticks in. I don't typically think about them in my yard, but for folks that might have large yards where you have like unmowed areas too. I think just like your mowing practices and maybe your landscaping practices, if you're out there and you're in the unmowed areas, I've seen this graphic where the unmowed areas, even before you get into the woods, are kind of like those high tick population areas. So just thinking about I guess your your habitat, your like vegetation zones in your yard too might favor or not favor tick populations.

Ken Johnson: 31:31

Yeah. The more dense the plants are, there's that higher humidity, they survive better. Your closely mowed grass, I guess depending on how closely you mowed, but your shorter grass is going to be a less inviting environment than a native plant planting where you've got really dense plantings and stuff. And, you know, if you are, you know, kind of like with with mosquitoes, if you know you're gonna be going out into an area that can have ticks, it's it's taking the precautions. Yeah.

Ken Johnson: 31:54

Tucking your pants and your socks, using repellents, that stuff. Yeah.

Abigail Garofalo: 31:57

That's what I'm thinking about too. Like, a lot of people are wanting to spray because they're like, oh, I want my kids to be safe. Well, if if your kids are playing on the grass short mowed grass area, that's not as much of a concern. Right? Like, we're not worried about that nearly as much.

Abigail Garofalo: 32:11

Also, like, you know, doing the quick brush after being outside. I feel like we're so disconnected with, like, being outside sometimes that we forget that, like, doing a quick brush when you come inside, maybe taking a shower at the end of the day. Right? Like, there's these kind of basic things that go along with being outside that are just, like, simple little precautions that keep us safe as opposed to killing everything there is out there. Right.

Abigail Garofalo: 32:34

There's there's easier, cheaper alternatives than spray. So okay. So we're thinking about our last scenario. We talked about mosquitoes. We talked about ticks.

Abigail Garofalo: 32:43

We talked about, like, our porch lights. We talked about lots of different insects. Now I wanna talk about wasps. We think that's another thing that I get a lot of questions about. It's like, I don't know if I wanna plant this because it's gonna attract bees and and wasps and other insects that are gonna sting me or my kids.

Abigail Garofalo: 32:59

I have an allergy, whatever. So let's say someone notices a wasp near a doorway or a porch or and immediately thinks is like, this has to go. This cannot be near here. How should people approach situations where insects are creating real conflict?

Ken Johnson: 33:16

Yeah. So things like, you know, paper wasps were usually the ones you hear about, you know, by by doorways and stuff. And, you know, in the spring, if you see them flying around and starting to build nests, knock them down, you do that a couple of times. Eventually, they're gonna kind of get the hint, and they're gonna go somewhere else. And if they do build it, you know, if you're noticing this in the fall, they've been there almost all year, and they haven't bothered you.

Ken Johnson: 33:37

You know, for me, personally, I leave them. Because unless you're really bothering them, typically, they're gonna leave you alone. Like, we had some on our deck. We've got a gate on our deck to get out into the driveway. There was a paper wasp nest there.

Ken Johnson: 33:49

My wife wanted me to get rid of it. I conveniently forgot to do it, and it was there all summer. Nobody ever got stung. We're constantly opening the gate banging it. They left us alone.

Ken Johnson: 33:58

That being said, you know, if it's in an area where you've got a lot of high traffic, that that may be somewhere where you want to get rid of it. So if it's a larger nest, probably spraying it is going to be the safest option. You're doing that, at night, standing off to the side. If you're shining a flashlight on it and you cover it in red, they don't see red. But just put that off to the side so you're not holding light and spraying it, and they come and attack the light if you're not using red.

Ken Johnson: 34:21

Stand off the side, you know, wearing long clothing covers much of your skin as possible, so they do come after you. You're somewhat protected. And if you don't feel comfortable doing it, having an exterminator come do it for you or somebody somebody else do it for you. So there there are times when, yeah, we need to to get rid of them. Yellow jackets, you know, would be another one.

Ken Johnson: 34:40

You know, I've had them in my yard kind of out in the back by the brush pile, carrying some branches back there once summer. Didn't know it was there, stepped on it. They let me know I was there. You know, once everything calmed down, a couple hours later, went back out, told the kids, hey, show them, There's a nest over there.

Ken Johnson: 34:57

We don't want you going back here. You know, if you're playing, you kick a ball back here, let me know. I'll come get it for you. They don't go back there. Nobody ever got stung because we knew it was there.

Ken Johnson: 35:05

We left them alone. Now, this is by my front door or something like that where people are coming in and out, then, yeah, I'd probably do something about it because, you know, these social wasps, just like honey bees, if you disturb their nests, they're going to defend it. Like, if you go out and, know, yellow jackets get vilified, because they can get a little aggressive, maybe a little more aggressive than bees and stuff, but you go to a honeybee hive and start messing with that, they're going to come out and sting you too. They're just they're defending their nests, and trying to keep predators and stuff away.

Abigail Garofalo: 35:34

I've seen, people put up false nests or even leave the previous year's nests. Is that a way to kind of like prevent like if it came you saw one in the fall, a lot of people like wanna remove that right away, especially with like paper wasps. Is that a concern or or is that is that a plausible, I guess, like, option is to leave one up so that way they don't nest near it the following year?

Ken Johnson: 35:58

Yeah. I'm not sure how much truth truth there is. I don't know if anybody's really ever studied that. I know I've had paper wasp nests, and I've had some nearby. You hear about the ball faced hornet nests leaving those out.

Ken Johnson: 36:09

I they usually get torn up by squirrels and stuff. They'll go in and after you get a couple hard freezes, squirrels will come in and tear them up. The yellow jacket nest I had in my backyard, I was going to go dig that up. So I had an example of one. I went out a couple days after we had a hard frost.

Ken Johnson: 36:23

Something tore it up, ate everything. I didn't get my nest. So

Abigail Garofalo: 36:27

How dare they?

Amy Lefringhouse: 36:30

Remind me what a yellow jacket nest looks like and where it is because I'm Googling it right now, but I'm sure you can explain it to me faster.

Ken Johnson: 36:41

So so they nest underground.

Amy Lefringhouse: 36:43

Okay.

Ken Johnson: 36:43

Typically, they're are gonna be underground. And it's a paper. When you think about a a paper wasp, they kind of have that same they're using plant fibers to create their nests. It's just So we've got three species in Illinois. We've got eastern, southern, and German yellow jacket.

Ken Johnson: 37:01

And most of the German yellow jacket can sometimes get into wall voids. One of them get into wall voids. It's not the Eastern or native species.

Amy Lefringhouse: 37:08

Okay.

Ken Johnson: 37:08

But typically, they're they're underground. If they were to be in a wall void, that's one where you're having a professional do that and you don't want to clog up, block that entrance, because they're gonna try to escape and they may chew through your walls into your house when you're doing that. Yeah. Typically, in the ground like abandoned rodent burrows. Yeah.

Ken Johnson: 37:26

Things like that.

Abigail Garofalo: 37:27

Be curious. It may cost you a lot of money if you're not. Like, I'm just

Amy Lefringhouse: 37:34

I always feel like the wasps and and stinging insects that get me are the ones that I don't even see. Like, you know, you can like be preventative, but I feel like I've always gotten them in times where I didn't know where their nest was. And I think one time I was mowing my yard and hit the I'm on a street that has a street sign. It was like a no parking sign or something like that, I hit it and they were like, wow. They came out, and I didn't even know that that they were there.

Amy Lefringhouse: 38:01

So they weren't hurting me all that time until the mower until the mower incident.

Ken Johnson: 38:07

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of times that's unfortunately how people find them is is with the more like you don't know they're there and then don't know they're there until it's too late. Get Yeah.

Amy Lefringhouse: 38:15

But they are doing some good like ecologically, they're out there doing some some cool things, aren't they?

Ken Johnson: 38:20

Yeah. So so with wasp, the the larvae are feeding on meat. So the adults are going out catch capturing insects. We're talking about social wasps. So yellow jackets are going out, basically catching anything they can.

Ken Johnson: 38:32

They'll chew that up, bring it back to the nest, feed that till they're young. The adults are feeding on nectar and other sugars, so they're visiting, a lot of times visiting flowers, they may do some pollination while they're doing this. You kind of get a double benefit. You can pollination and you're getting pest management. The solitary wasps are doing the same thing.

Ken Johnson: 38:51

Lot of times they are some of the bigger ones, the scary looking ones, but kind of like solitary bees, they're not really all that aggressive unless you grab them, hold on to them like cicada killers and stuff. Mhmm. You know, they're big.

Abigail Garofalo: 39:03

You can ask about a cicada killer. My sister had one in her front yard and she was asking me, and I was like, I'm pretty sure if you leave it alone, it won't like, it's not interested in you.

Ken Johnson: 39:12

Yeah. Yeah. Unless you step on it, like, barefoot or gets caught in your clothing, you're they don't care about you. Like, cicada killers that are going up into trees, those sting paralyze a cicada, drag that down into their nest, they'll lay an egg on it, and larvae is going to eat that cicada. A lot of the others are feeding on katydids, grasshoppers, some feed on spiders.

Ken Johnson: 39:32

So if you don't like spiders, encourage those mud daubers and things like that. They'll feed on spiders. So again, they're they're capturing those, laying their eggs on them, the larvae are feeding them, and the adults are going out and visiting flowers for nectar and stuff.

Amy Lefringhouse: 39:45

Mhmm. Okay. Talking about the beneficial, like the beneficial insects, ways we can support insects. So if we wanted to create a yard that supported these organisms while we're trying to also reduce some everyday frustrations or challenges that what are some practical things we can do? And we've talked about a few here and there, but what are some, you know, basic one, two, three things that they can do?

Ken Johnson: 40:10

Be willing to accept all insects regardless of whether they're they're directly benefiting you or not. You know, the the for beneficial insects, usually we're talking about pollinators. You know, some of those natural enemies a lot of times are acting as pollinators, too, so planting a diversity of plants, you know, ideally native flowers. But they will use ornamental stuff too. Like, I've never seen a zinnia that doesn't have butterflies and stuff on it.

Ken Johnson: 40:33

Like autumn joy sedum is always covered in bees and stuff in the fall. So, you know, native plants are kind of the the best, but you don't need to tear out your whole landscape. You can do it in pieces and you or non native stuff can still, be helpful as well. You know, a diversity of of blooms throughout the whole season. You know, think we're thinking March through September, October.

Ken Johnson: 40:55

Usually, we're good. And during the summer, all of our landscapes are full of flowers. That early spring and that fall, a lot of times you don't have a lot of stuff and those are important times. Things are emerging from hibernation. Things are getting ready to hibernate or migrate in the case of things like monarchs.

Ken Johnson: 41:13

The early and late stuff is important for those things to survive and get through the winter and get through the spring before they can build up their populations. You know, we talked about mowing. So, you know, if you do want to avoid critters, insects and stuff, mosquitoes, ticks, what have you, you know, having an area that you mow is a place where you can recreate. Know, lot of times I think we vilify turf. Admittedly, don't like turf.

Ken Johnson: 41:37

But it does have a use, in our landscapes. You know, recreating, things like that. Keeping those areas cut a little shorter, that's going to reduce the number of insects. You can put your habitat on the periphery or in the areas where you don't use, like At my house, we don't really go out in the front yard much, so we've pretty much torn out our front yard and done all native plants and stuff in the front yard. I don't have to mow it then either.

Ken Johnson: 42:00

So

Abigail Garofalo: 42:01

Yeah. I wanna clarify it's like Ken's version of turf too. It's like if it's green and it's low, we're good. Yeah. Right?

Abigail Garofalo: 42:11

Also, my my neighbor's like

Amy Lefringhouse: 42:13

Same.

Abigail Garofalo: 42:14

Got a lot of broadleaf things going on in there, and I'm like, hello, and it's good.

Ken Johnson: 42:19

I've I've got more creeping Charlie than I do grass , I think, in my area.

Amy Lefringhouse: 42:23

I was gonna I thought you were gonna say than anyone else. I was like, no. I can I bet I can top you?

Abigail Garofalo: 42:28

Very nice. Yeah. Those are a lot of really good options. And definitely go back and listen to Amy Powers' episode too if you're looking for, like, more large scale landscape, what that looks like, to design ideas, things like that. We're looking at lots of different elements of things.

Abigail Garofalo: 42:42

So I love the way that we're setting up the season of, like, we're focusing on insects this time, but everything integrates and talks about these things. So if you if this is your first episode you're listening to, definitely go back and check out different episodes this season because and and listen throughout the season because you'll get all of these different things and learn about all the cool ways. On that note too, after listening to this episode, what's one thing that you'd encourage people to notice or try before reacting to the next insect they see in their yard?

Ken Johnson: 43:12

When you see an insect, don't assume it's a pest. Again, a vast majority of them are are beneficial or they don't really well, they do affect us, but they they are not they're not bad, I guess. And again, is anything really bad? I guess that's more of a philosophical Philosophical. Question Bad, like, yeah, most insects that are not out to get you, most of them are not going to hurt you.

Ken Johnson: 43:35

When you see an insect, try to figure out what it is, and does it warrant me doing anything? Is it going to pose a risk to you, your landscape, what have you? And I would say nine times out of 10 they're not. Even the wasps. You know, they have their place.

Ken Johnson: 43:51

And as long as they're not, you know, building their nest right next to your house, you know, imminent danger, leave them be. They'll these things have no interest, really, outside of, like, mosquitoes that want to feed on your blood. You know, most insects have no interest in you at all.

Amy Lefringhouse: 44:05

I I was just gonna say, like, when I my kids, you know, when a bug flies in their hair or, you know, just like or on their you know, lands on their body, I just, like, take a breath. Right? Like, just chill. Hang on. Let's see what's going on and just grab it and put it on its merry way versus, like, you know, the smack or trying to trying to squish it.

Amy Lefringhouse: 44:25

So take a breath.

Abigail Garofalo: 44:27

I would just say you could take it to the next level like me. And if I see an insect in my house, especially like a spider, I'm like, if it's over there, I'm good. It's it can stay there, specifically spiders. If I see like something else like a fly, like drain flies, I got questions. Right?

Abigail Garofalo: 44:42

But if I see a spider, I'm like, it's over there. Not in my way. It's in the corner.

Ken Johnson: 44:46

Its eating all the other insects in your house.

Abigail Garofalo: 44:49

Thank you. That's what I say. Thank you. Thank you. Remember,

Ken Johnson: 44:53

if you're cold, they're cold. Put them inside. Alright.

Abigail Garofalo: 44:57

Well, on that note, Ken, thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge on insects. We are going to finish today's episode with everyday observations where we highlight the mundane and normal of our environment that is actually really interesting. So Amy, we're gonna have you go first.

Amy Lefringhouse: 45:14

Okay. So my everyday observation on this episode is that I've been watching this, what I'm terming as my sidewalk crack garden all season long. So this is fall, we're almost to the end of the season, but I have a an area in my yard that has like a giant bin that I like throw my clippings, right? Okay. So I like I clean my garden up.

Amy Lefringhouse: 45:45

I try to wait as long as possible. Know, so it has all kinds of seeds, right? All those plants have seeds. So I'm like bringing them into this little like area where I'm putting them all before it goes out to the yard waste area. Well every spring I'm like, oh, what's coming up on my sidewalk crack garden every year?

Amy Lefringhouse: 46:06

So this year I had dill, I had cilantro, I had zinnias, I have Hoary vervain, purple coneflower, and that might be it. But I all in a what is it? What's a sidewalk like 36 inches, thirty thirty thirty six inches or whatever in this sidewalk crack where I've just been, yeah, growing plants. I don't even have to do anything special. They've just been growing for me all season long, so I just think that's hilarious.

Amy Lefringhouse: 46:41

The first year, I saw some plants coming up. I'm like, what are those? Because they were all the same thing. And I was like, those aren't like the typical weeds that I would see in my side in the side crack of my sidewalk. But, yeah, I let them grow, and I was like, oh, look.

Amy Lefringhouse: 46:55

They bloomed, Hoary Vervain, that first year. And I was like, oh, wow. This is cool. So now it's kind of this little experiment that I've got going every single season. So I think I have six five to six plant species this year in my little diverse garden.

Abigail Garofalo: 47:11

Increase the biodiversity incredibly by that area.

Amy Lefringhouse: 47:15

I just thought that was funny.

Abigail Garofalo: 47:17

I love it. That's great. Say that's your your kinda, like, anecdote for anybody who's like, just don't know if I can grow things. Growing seems growing seems really hard. Growing plants seems hard.

Amy Lefringhouse: 47:29

No. No.

Abigail Garofalo: 47:30

Honestly, just kinda move plants from one space to the other in the fall and see what happens. I know. It's not

Amy Lefringhouse: 47:36

even plants. It's like cuttings. I'm like getting ready to like, they're anyway, it's so funny.

Ken Johnson: 47:41

Nature finds a way.

Amy Lefringhouse: 47:43

Nature finds a way for sure. Little tiny bitty tiny piece of soil there.

Abigail Garofalo: 47:47

Alright, Ken. What's your everyday observation?

Ken Johnson: 47:50

I guess since we're recording this in June, is the the fireflies are out in my backyard, so we've been going out. My daughter and I have been going out catching fireflies. We let them out. When she goes to bed, I let them out loose, but we've got good healthy population of fireflies in our backyard. So, you know, with those, it's having that habitat, not cleaning up leaves, you know, they're larvae.

Ken Johnson: 48:15

The larvae can live maybe a year or two, live for a year or two as a larval stage. So having that net leaf litter on on the floor, you know, creates a good environment for them. So leave the leaves and all the other stuff on the ground.

Abigail Garofalo: 48:29

I have, like, core memories. I'm sure if I smelled it, I'd be like, that smells like fireflies. Like, the smell of, like, fireflies when you catch them. Oh. It's like so it's not a good smell.

Abigail Garofalo: 48:39

Like, I remember some and they're like, it's not a good smell. Let me be very clear.

Amy Lefringhouse: 48:42

It's distinct.

Abigail Garofalo: 48:43

But it's like, I like, it's so distinct to me that I'm like, yes. That's the smell of fireflies.

Amy Lefringhouse: 48:50

Love firefly season. Alright. What's yours Abigail?,

Abigail Garofalo: 48:54

Yeah. I will go. So I am not a bird person by any means, but for some reason, I've been observing a lot of birds lately. And I was at the Morton Arboretum a few weeks ago, so this is, like, mid June, and I saw my first Baltimore Oriole in person. I've never seen one in person before.

Abigail Garofalo: 49:15

I've only seen, like, videos and pictures, and I was just, like, so shocked at how bright orange that, like, it is. And I was just like, what is that? And my friend was like, it's Baltimore or like, she was like, oh, it's just an Oriole or whatever. And I was just like, woah. So I just never seen it in person before.

Abigail Garofalo: 49:31

I'm definitely not gonna go birding for one anytime soon, but it was a joy to see it when I did. So Yes.

Amy Lefringhouse: 49:38

Nice. Those are hard to miss once

Abigail Garofalo: 49:40

you see them for the first you know, or actually just anytime you see them.

Amy Lefringhouse: 49:43

You're like, oh my gosh. Looky there.

Abigail Garofalo: 49:45

Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Abigail Garofalo: 49:46

It's been a good bird season. We also heard like another bird that we thought was an oriole, and then we were like, no. It's just like a fledgling because it sounded kinda angry and like

Amy Lefringhouse: 49:54

Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah. I heard a yellow billed cuckoo. I heard one the other day, and that is the weirdest thing I had ever heard.

Amy Lefringhouse: 50:02

I don't know if either one of you have heard those before.

Ken Johnson: 50:04

Not knowingly. Definitely

Amy Lefringhouse: 50:06

not gonna try to impersonate it or whatever or try to recreate it.

Abigail Garofalo: 50:11

Come on, Amy. Give us your best.

Amy Lefringhouse: 50:12

I will say that Brodie on Voice of the Wild, I think this episode this week was the yellow billed cuckoo. And it was just it was interesting to hear for the first time. So check that out.

Abigail Garofalo: 50:24

Alright. Well, thank you so much, Ken, again for coming on and talking to us all about insects in our home landscape and helping us be a little more curious and just thinking insects about insects in a different light. We just really appreciate having you on. Yes.

Ken Johnson: 50:38

Thanks for having me.

Abigail Garofalo: 50:39

Anytime. And definitely go check out his podcast, Good Growing. They got a lot of really good information out there. If you thought the mosquito one was interesting, they have a whole episode on different research around preventative around mosquitoes. I personally really, really enjoyed that one.

Abigail Garofalo: 50:53

So definitely go check that out. This has been another episode of the Everyday Environment Podcast. Check us out next week where we talk with Andrea Wagner and Jay Solomon about energy efficient landscaping. This podcast is University of Illinois Extension production, hosted and edited by Abigail Garofalo, Erin Garrett, and Amy Lefringhouse. Marketing and communications are by Emily Steele.